Cytorrak & Juggernaut (Classic) vs Odin & King Thor vs Thanos & Darkseid

Originally posted by Starscream M
what about cytorrak turning juggernaut trion? trion himself is more than a match for odin

1. How would Cytorrak turn Juggernaut into Trion? If you're referring to the story where Juggernaut was being empowered with outside energies, I'm pretty sure that Cytorrak had nothing to do with that and it was instead the three entities from a parallel Universe. IIRC Storm ended up beating them with a lightning bolt or some shit, been a while.

2. Haha, no he's not. He broke a few localized dimensional boundaries and knocked aside Wolverine plus some X-men. You need a lot more feats than that to justify him taking on Odin much less being too much for the All-Father. Odin can break dimensional barriers with his farts.

Originally posted by KingD19
Cytorrak is Skyfather level outside of his dimension. In it it's safe to assume he's even stronger. And Trion Juggernaut is a huge threat, and in Cytorrak's realm he's probably even stronger than normal.

Skyfather level? I guess, based on lip service anyways, but on par with Odin? You're gonna need to prove that buddy.

Lip service is great and all, but then again Cytorrak and all the other hell lords seemed to be shitting their pants at the coming of the Serpent from what I recall.

As a rule of thumb, demon lords and other mystical entities are more powerful in their home dimensions. If there was any doubt, Gillen recently confirmed it when he had Cytorrak banish Phoenix Colossus. Still not enough evidence to prove he beats Odin, much less Odin and King Thor.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Skyfather level? I guess, based on lip service anyways, but on par with Odin? You're gonna need to prove that buddy.

Lip service is great and all, but then again Cytorrak and all the other hell lords seemed to be shitting their pants at the coming of the Serpent from what I recall.

As a rule of thumb, demon lords and other mystical entities are more powerful in their home dimensions. If there was any doubt, Gillen recently confirmed it when he had Cytorrak banish Phoenix Colossus. Still not enough evidence to prove he beats Odin, much less Odin and King Thor.

Cytorrak didn't give a damn about the Serpent taking over Cain. He didn't even care about Serpent. He didn't even really notice to tell the truth. It wasn't until Magik convinced him that Cain was destroying for Serpent and not for him(which was an insult as the entire reason he empowered him was to cause chaos and destruction in his name), that he granted Colossus the power.

team 1

Originally posted by KingD19
Cytorrak didn't give a damn about the Serpent taking over Cain. He didn't even care about Serpent. He didn't even really notice to tell the truth. It wasn't until Magik convinced him that Cain was destroying for Serpent and not for him(which was an insult as the entire reason he empowered him was to cause chaos and destruction in his name), that he granted Colossus the power.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Skyfather level? I guess, based on lip service anyways, but on par with Odin? You're gonna need to prove that buddy.

Lip service is great and all, but then again Cytorrak and all the other hell lords seemed to be shitting their pants at the coming of the Serpent from what I recall.

As a rule of thumb, demon lords and other mystical entities are more powerful in their home dimensions. If there was any doubt, Gillen recently confirmed it when he had Cytorrak banish Phoenix Colossus. Still not enough evidence to prove he beats Odin, much less Odin and King Thor.

Even if you believe what he says, Cyttorak has always been banished and unable to leave his realm. He was mad the Serpent had tainted his Avatar and wanted something done about it. He literally couldn't do anything himself because he can not leave his realm.

He also was shown with Magik to not even care about what the Serpent was doing to Earth until he learned about Cain being double possessed and using someone else's power. FYI it was said by Satanna that at anytime if Cain wanted he could have called upon the power of Cyttorak to break free from the Serpent's hold on him.

Originally posted by KingD19
Cytorrak in his realm laughed at 2/5 of the Phoenix Force and banished them without a second glance. And Classic Juggernaut in Cytorrak's realm will more than likely be amped, and have more access to all the magic he used back in the day. This is their fight to lose.

This

Cyttorak in his home beats Team Inbred Viking and Team Poo Face easily.

Originally posted by KingD19
Cytorrak didn't give a damn about the Serpent taking over Cain. He didn't even care about Serpent. He didn't even really notice to tell the truth. It wasn't until Magik convinced him that Cain was destroying for Serpent and not for him(which was an insult as the entire reason he empowered him was to cause chaos and destruction in his name), that he granted Colossus the power.

Like you said, Cytorrak does care, very much so. When he realized that Cain was spreading the word of the Serpent, he immediately recalled his power. That being said, as long as Cain causes destruction, for the most part he is content, but I'm not sure how all of this is relevant to the point I was making.

Mephisto, Cytorrak and all the other high end hell lords were obviously very wary of the Serpent. Heck, Mephisto even said taking on the Serpent one on one would be stupid and suicidal.

Originally posted by Newjak
You're referring to the Mephisto story right?

Even if you believe what he says, Cyttorak has always been banished and unable to leave his realm. He was mad the Serpent had tainted his Avatar and wanted something done about it. He literally couldn't do anything himself because he can not leave his realm.

He also was shown with Magik to not even care about what the Serpent was doing to Earth until he learned about Cain being double possessed and using someone else's power. FYI it was said by Satanna that at anytime if Cain wanted he could have called upon the power of Cyttorak to break free from the Serpent's hold on him.

Yes I am.

Why wouldn't I believe what was said? True, but that's beside the message of that story, which is that if a demon lord took on the Serpent, they'd be royally f*cked. And I'm willing to bet good money Cytorrak like Mephisto was in that boat. I'll give Cytorrak points for talking shit about them taking on the Serpent and beating his ass but as Mephisto pointed out in a mocking thought bubble, he's good at talking shit, facing the real deal is different.

I do not understand how Cytorrak being a lazy f*ck who is content with Cain wrecking shit most of the time is relevant to this debate. I only brought up the Serpent because it gives us a base of comparison between Asgardian Skyfathers and Cytorrak. And that comparison heavily favors the Asgardians, although it's not conclusive, debate ending evidence. But if that's the only thing that counted for Cytorrak fans, he'd be massacred by Odin.

Do you have a scan of that? Because I'm pretty sure it was said that if Cain had not embraced the Serpent, he could have used the power of Cytorrak that was already in him to help resist the Serpent, not easily break the control. Those two have very different meanings. Course it's been a while, hence the scan.

Anyways, I'm probably finished here as Team 2 clearly wins here. Anyone who thinks Cytorrak, in or out of his realm can beat King Thor and Odin needs to back that information up with hard evidence.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Yes I am.

Why wouldn't I believe what was said? True, but that's beside the message of that story, which is that if a demon lord took on the Serpent, they'd be royally f*cked. And I'm willing to bet good money Cytorrak like Mephisto was in that boat. I'll give Cytorrak points for talking shit about them taking on the Serpent and beating his ass but as Mephisto pointed out in a mocking thought bubble, he's good at talking shit, facing the real deal is different.

I do not understand how Cytorrak being a lazy f*ck who is content with Cain wrecking shit most of the time is relevant to this debate. I only brought up the Serpent because it gives us a base of comparison between Asgardian Skyfathers and Cytorrak. And that comparison heavily favors the Asgardians, although it's not conclusive, debate ending evidence. But if that's the only thing that counted for Cytorrak fans, he'd be massacred by Odin.

Do you have a scan of that? Because I'm pretty sure it was said that if Cain had not embraced the Serpent, he could have used the power of Cytorrak that was already in him to help resist the Serpent, not easily break the control. Those two have very different meanings. Course it's been a while, hence the scan.

Anyways, I'm probably finished here as Team 2 clearly wins here. Anyone who thinks Cytorrak, in or out of his realm can beat King Thor and Odin needs to back that information up with hard evidence.

I'll try and find the scan from Satanna.

What are you talking about? I never denied that Cytorrak was trapped in his realm. I'm simply pointing out that Gillen (The same writer who had him own Phoenix Colossus by the way so it's not as if he doesn't respect Cytorrak), made it pretty obvious that if the two were to fight, Cytorrak would most likely get his butt spanked. So would Mephisto and any other high hell lord, at least that's my interpretation of the issue.

I'd also like to point out that since Cytorrak managed to attend the meeting, he isn't as trapped as you might think and the fact that staging an attack on the Serpent was proposed by Cytorrak himself, if need be he/they could obviously bypass the spell somehow.

t2

Cytorrak is trapped in his realm, but I believe he can project Avatars of his essence/will outside of it.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What are you talking about? I never denied that Cytorrak was trapped in his realm. I'm simply pointing out that Gillen (The same writer who had him own Phoenix Colossus by the way so it's not as if he doesn't respect Cytorrak), made it pretty obvious that if the two were to fight, Cytorrak would most likely get his butt spanked. So would Mephisto and any other high hell lord, at least that's my interpretation of the issue.

I'd also like to point out that since Cytorrak managed to attend the meeting, he isn't as trapped as you might think and the fact that staging an attack on the Serpent was proposed by Cytorrak himself, if need be he/they could obviously bypass the spell somehow.

Originally posted by KingD19
Cytorrak is trapped in his realm, but I believe he can project Avatars of his essence/will outside of it.

never been impressed by cytorrak

The serpent was getting wanked, some of the demons that showed up to mephistos meeting could have givin him run for his money.

60% of those guys are trapped in there dimensions with no way to come to earth

Originally posted by KingD19
Cytorrak is trapped in his realm, but I believe he can project Avatars of his essence/will outside of it.

Scan of this? He probably could mind you, but I'd like some confirmation. Mostly because it felt like it was intended to be the real deal.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Skyfather level? I guess, based on lip service anyways, but on par with Odin? You're gonna need to prove that buddy.

Lip service is great and all, but then again Cytorrak and all the other hell lords seemed to be shitting their pants at the coming of the Serpent from what I recall.

As a rule of thumb, demon lords and other mystical entities are more powerful in their home dimensions. If there was any doubt, Gillen recently confirmed it when he had Cytorrak banish Phoenix Colossus. Still not enough evidence to prove he beats Odin, much less Odin and King Thor.

I really hate what that Journey Into Mystery story did to him and some other Elder God characters .

Originally posted by Newjak