Question On Future Gohan!

I thought about something on Future Gohan; Things should be up to date till the android saga and the fact that Trunks is just born instead of traveling back to the present world. At this point if future "kid" Gohan transformed into a super saiyan, it should be equal to the same amount of energy that the present Gohan had when he turned Super Saiyan for the first time in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber during the Cell saga. Now I'm not sure if he trained in the time chamber in the future time but the way things were for him with Goku dying of the heart virus and Z gang being killed off, in particular Piccolo and Krillin being the closest to him then he should have had more energy and rage than the present Gohan. With him having to be in constant battle that should have given him extra power. 10-14 years later he's still fighting and both 17 and 18 are still on the rampage. Before this point Future Gohan should have already have achieved the full powered super saiyan which was more than enough to defeat 17 and 18 as shown with Trunks. However, Future Gohan is not even equivalent to Present Teenage Gohan when he relaxed from training during the 7 year peace period transition to Majin Buu Saga, he may not even be as powerful as his GT incarnation and that was over a 15-20 period. Future Gohan didn't have anytime to relax as he had to be constantly on his feet with 17 and 18. With the training that Future Gohan had to condition himself in, he had to be able to access Super Saiyan 2 and not only that, He should have been able to tap into more of his hidden power. Future Gohan was a strong character but compaired to a relaxed Present Teenage Gohan or even GT Gohan he is much weaker than the two. Fighting against 17 and 18 should have been a breeze for him and it wasn't, why was Future Gohan so far behind? Also take into account that in the present world none of the Z fighters are dead but yet Present 10 year old(11 with HBC)Gohan is much stronger than Future Gohan. Why is that?

There's definitely something funky going on in terms of power between the two time-lines. Trunks even implied that the cyborgs were weaker in the future.

Dragon Ball chapter 255, page 8 of 20.

Then there's the fact that Gohan only had one arm, though this wasn't portrayed in the anime.

Dragon Ball, special chapter, page 3 of 20.

Look at it like this: Kenechi would have been weak his entire life, if he didn't have his masters to push him. He simply doesn't have it in him to push himself hard enough on his own, or use the correct training methods. Gohan's the same way.. He's not a natural warrior type, and he needs someone else to push him.

Fighting alone isn't enough.. He'd only get as strong as he needs to get, to hold his own and survive. Goku didn't get strong just by fighting, he worked his ass off for it, and he worked smart.. Smarter then Vegeta, who worked even harder, but didn't use little tricks like senzu beans for fast recovery, or sticking to SSJ form all the time to let his body adapt between recovery periods..

Originally posted by Astner
There's definitely something funky going on in terms of power between the two time-lines. Trunks even implied that the cyborgs were weaker in the future.

Dragon Ball chapter 255, page 8 of 20.

Then there's the fact that Gohan only had one arm, though this wasn't portrayed in the anime.

Dragon Ball, special chapter, page 3 of 20.

Trunks explained it.

Because he goes back in time, he makes the androids stronger in the "Main" universe. It is Trunks' fault, basically. Also, because they trained in preparation for the androids, unlike Trunks' timeline, the "sampling" was able to set a stronger baseline. Again, Trunks' fault.

But, a Trunks predicted, Goku was indeed able to transcend expectations. However, due to Trunks traveling back in time, Cell was able to mature by following him back in time.

Gohan had one arm because he lost one fighting against the androids. The 40 minute special shows it was due to Gohan protecting Trunks from a blast from one of the Androids.

The comic Dragonball Multiverse has an interesting theory- namely, that without tunes up and such, Androids eventually decrease in power, thus they were just as strong in their initial rampage as the main universe, but had simply wound down a bit by Trunk's time.

Future Gohan was a strong character but compaired to a relaxed Present Teenage Gohan or even GT Gohan he is much weaker than the two. Fighting against 17 and 18 should have been a breeze for him and it wasn't, why was Future Gohan so far behind?

Probably a couple factors- One, he never trained against super saiyans. It likely took him awhile to get strong enough to go Super Saiyan on his own without that, and he may have lost his arm pretty soon, which affected his power.

Due to the fact it was 1-on-2 and he had to take care of Trunks, he likely spent a lot of time avoiding fights as well.

Originally posted by Q99
The comic Dragonball Multiverse has an interesting theory- namely, that without tunes up and such, Androids eventually decrease in power, thus they were just as strong in their initial rampage as the main universe, but had simply wound down a bit by Trunk's time.

DBM has some good ideas. Makes sense.

I thought about something else. Without Trunks coming back to the present time, it is safe to assume that Goku used instant transmission to get back to Earth and killed Frieza and King Cold. With that set the time of peace would come in place and they wouldn't have known about the Androids. I'm sure they trained abit, but at a lighter pace because they don't know about the Androids. Of Course Goku dies of the heart virus and 17 and 18 let loose for the next 14 plus years. However with the deaths of Goku,Piccolo and Krillin, that should have fueled Gohan to train harder and go Super Saiyan at a faster rate. Even in hiding he had to do some sort of pushing on his own. When Piccolo died the first time to Nappa, Gohan was pushed to throw the masenko at Nappa. When Krillin was horn tortured by Frieza, it pushed Gohan to dish out his rage on Frieza. When Piccolo came back from the dead and faught Frieza to a standstill until his transformation when frieza started to torture him, Gohan was pushed hard and threw the masenko at Frieza prompting Frieza to go into his last transformation. With them dying to 17 and 18, that should have been the push he needed to go further. If not the full powered Super Saiyan level then at least the Super Level and even that would have been enough to defeat 17 and 18 as shown with Vegeta when he became Super Vegeta and was able to toy around with the 2nd form of Cell.

They trained non stop for a year to reach Ultra Super Saiyan.

Yeah, future Gohan would have been inspired to train harder, but what he thought of as pushing his limits, is probably what Goku and Vegeta consider taking it easy. At the least, he'd be walking away, while Goku and Vegeta would push themselves so hard they'd be crawling...

Even Goku, who usually tries to put a positive spin on things, called his boy lazy when he saw how much power he lost. 😄

Originally posted by Q99
The comic Dragonball Multiverse has an interesting theory- namely, that without tunes up and such, Androids eventually decrease in power, thus they were just as strong in their initial rampage as the main universe, but had simply wound down a bit by Trunk's time.

Yea, but that's not the same thing as not needing the occasional tune up.

If they're energy was infinite then it should have been equal on sides(Present and Future). In the present world the laboratory was destroyed by Trunks and I'm not sure if the lab still remained but destroying it would halt the process for a tune up. In both timelines, Dr. Gero was killed by 17 but doesn't mean that the lab had to be destroyed in the future. Having access to it would enable them to empower themselves but the present world didn't have yet Trunks said that they were more powerful than the future versions. And then there is 16. Don't why he didn't exist in the future but he was around in the present world and he was more powerful than both 17 and 18 as shown when he took on a more powerful Cell(after he absorbed more people but not 17). I always wondered why 16 didn't come around in the future. Going along with what I was saying, 17 and 18 should be more powerful in the future.

There are other problems, in the future #16 wasn't activated. Besides #17 was stronger than #18—according to the Daizenshū—meaning that Gero purposely made #18 weaker. In the future he could've made both of them a lot weaker.

What's I'm trying to say is that you can't necessarily draw direct parallels between the timelines.

They couldn't be more powerful because they were designed to kill a Goku much weaker than the one encountered in the past(main) timeline. Let's say Goku and company had a PL no more than "5" ok? Gero would only need to make androids powerful enough to combat that. Maybe "10"? But then Goku and friends get warned so they trained harder bringing them up to "10". Now Gero need androids higher than before. "15" would now be required.

As for why Gohan wasn't as strong i'd say that he had alot of time in the chamber to increase his Super Saiyan power by sparring and being pushed by Goku. He wasn't nearly as strong as Goku when he first transformed. And he couldn't really train in the future since the androids were hunting him down. His training would have attracted them before he was ready cuz they can detect PL's. So he just stuck to hitting and running.

And their energy supply being infinite wouldn't mean they had to be the same strength. Gero made them so they could run at full power forever. He just altered what their "full power" actually was.

Originally posted by Astner
There are other problems, in the future #16 wasn't activated. Besides #17 was stronger than #18—according to the Daizenshū—meaning that Gero purposely made #18 weaker. In the future he could've made both of them a lot weaker.

What's I'm trying to say is that you can't necessarily draw direct parallels between the timelines.

The anime even had them kill their undeveloped Cell, didn't they? Was that filler?

One things' for certain, the Cell they fought was from a universe where Trunks kills the androids, and imperfect Cell kills him. Yet, future Trunks eventually manages to kill his Imperfect Cell. So that's two distinct timelines, that can't co-exist, and neither affected the main timeline..

So yeah, time travel was treated more like trips to alternate mirror universes then actually traveling through time.. Could be all sorts of differences, in that case.

Originally posted by cdtm
The anime even had them kill their undeveloped Cell, didn't they? Was that filler?

One things' for certain, the Cell they fought was from a universe where Trunks kills the androids, and imperfect Cell kills him. Yet, future Trunks eventually manages to kill his Imperfect Cell. So that's two distinct timelines, that can't co-exist, and neither affected the main timeline..

So yeah, time travel was treated more like trips to alternate mirror universes then actually traveling through time.. Could be all sorts of differences, in that case.

I thought about that too, with the past the events are set, they have past and nothing can be done to change it. The memories of those events stay forever. Now when Trunks came back three years later he should have seen Goku dead and the Zfighters on the verge of dying. He could have went back to that place in time and saved Goku from the heart virus and tried to alter time from there. I thought something if he did go back to the future, wouldn't that mean that the future would have to be altered too?