Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Wait a minute.Batman keeps a variety of chemicals in his utility belt, doesn't he?
Powerful acids, bases, liquid nitrogen capsules, that sort of thing?
Has Peter's armor ever shown to be vulnerable to temperature extremes or acids? Certainly Batman comes equipped with smoke grenades and phosphor flares and what not. If Peter IS vulnerable to any of the wide array of substances Bruce carries with him, Bruce certainly has the ability to blind and confuse Peter long enough to do a pinpoint attack that might bring him down. (I would expect a small level explosive to the eyes to do at least SOME damage, for instance...)
Someone like Bruce could do a lot with the basic knowledge the general versus rules outline. Organic steel? As in some form of hard carbon metal?
Most people don't realize how "destructible" most substances are if you only try the right kind of compound, and Batman carries a ton of 'em...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Diamonds are NOT forever.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mKqtT8J2ms
(2 min 46 sec)
Originally posted by KingD19Yet somehow in the recent X-men issue Storm almost killed him with a single thunderbolt... but since it's the same issue where she rocked him with a kick im not surprised.
Acid, magic, heat and cold(not at the same time), etc... He even withstood Storm's lightning for a few minutes as he acted as a lightning rod so she could charge Cyclops. Iirc the metal platform they were on started to melt from the heat.
Originally posted by SamZED
Yet somehow in the recent X-men issue Storm almost killed him with a single thunderbolt... but since it's the same issue where she rocked him with a kick im not surprised.
I'm calling PIS in that issue man. Classic Colossus fell from I think several miles up, made a mile wide crater and was just fine. Colossus on Breakworld fell from near orbit and was fine. Colossus has been used as a makeshift bomb before by dropping him from really high. Yet after he gets the Juggernaut power, gets a hole blasted in his chest and walks it off, and all this other stuff. A fall from 55,000 feet "injures" him? Storm kicks him and it actually affects him? The whole issue reeks of piss.
Originally posted by pym-ftw
Piotr was nearly killed by Pyro, when he was first frozen with liquid nitrogen and then blasted with intense fire.
Thanks for this info, Pym.
Once you gave me that much, Googling yielded the following link, which I'm editing this post to add; my image attachment
has the relevant descriptive text to pinpoint and/or go with that scan:
http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/spotlight/showquestion.asp?faq=10&fldAuto=77&page=3
Then with that, given that this is a scenario match-up, that Batman has all his ordinary gear, and that Batman also has all of New York City to work with, the answer is "Yes, Batman CAN bring down Colossus".
It won't be majority wins for Batman.
It won't be a pure hand-to-hand.
What you'll have instead is a mini version of Spider-man versus Juggernaut, with Batman taking Spider-man's role and Colossus that of Juggernaut; perhaps even with similar odds.
It is possible for a peak human to survive an errant, non-accurate blow from Colossus, even if Colossus isn't holding back. Cyclops proved that when he took a slam-punch combination from Colossus in the original Dark Phoenix aftersaga.
It's possible for a human level opponent to manipulate Colossus weight and take him off his feet. Again, proved by Cyclops when he fought not only Colossus but the rest of his teammates as well in the aforementioned skirmish. Currently you can refer to the Cyclops respect thread and see this in one of Black Adam's posts.
If time permits, I'll show perhaps 3 of those relevant images here myself. Significant to note that Cyclops fought most of that battle with busted ribs, pointing out point 3 ...
It's possible for a human level opponent to outdistance and outmanuever Colossus. Dude is slow. He's ground bound and cannot fly. He also has a temper and can be goaded into rushing or following an opponent without really paying attention to his surroundings or even where he's going.
Again, see Cyclops versus the X-Men, post Dark Phoenix.
Maybe I've been sleeping, but I haven't even seen where Colossus has significant leaping ability, in contrast to a character like Hulk.
Find a way to drop him down a sewer, or use an explosive batarang to collapse the street around him to achieve the same effect, and it should take Petey a little while to get topside again.
I imagine it would be easy for Batman to break into and hotwire a nearby vehicle to crash into him, if only to prove to himself that doesn't work, as general forum rules say he should know Piotr could no-sell anyway, but there's a whole city of options Bruce can try against Colossus that he wouldn't be able to make work against the leaper and flyer or speedster version of tank Bruce is used to.
Colossus, however, unless someone can prove to me otherwise, is pure tank; you only need find something to mess with those treads ...
Pyro and Avalanche proved the combination of hot then cold is enough to break Colossus' resistance to either extreme by itself.
Note also that Batman only need to affect a relatively small area of Colossus like that to get a win NOT his whole body.
Shatter a kneecap for instance, an action perfectly within the character M.O. and limits of Batman, and Big C is down on the ground as you asked.
Also:
I would need to see Peter thunderclapping to believe he can use such a thing in a fight. There's a strength threshhold you've got to pass before that becomes an option, after all. Not just anybody with any level of superstrength can do it, else you'd see Spider-man pulling that move all the time.
Piotr has always been Marvel's little-est "big" man.
Prove to me the thunderclap is something he's allowed to play with, please.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Speaking of sound attacks, has anyone ever used one on Petey?
I'm recalling now that hypersonics have dropped even Juggernaut, and that Batman, surprise, surprise, happens to carry a hypersonic emitter on his person. Least every version I'VE seen of Batman does.
Somebody please respond and let me know if Colossus has any sound resistance I'm not aware of. If anything, that metal body of his should MAGNIFY the effect of audio.
Originally posted by bluewaterriderNice theory
Thanks for this info, Pym.Once you gave me that much, Googling yielded the following link, which I'm editing this post to add; my image attachment
has the relevant descriptive text to pinpoint and/or go with that scan:http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/spotlight/showquestion.asp?faq=10&fldAuto=77&page=3
Then with that, given that this is a scenario match-up, that Batman has all his ordinary gear, and that Batman also has all of New York City to work with, the answer is "Yes, Batman CAN bring down Colossus".
It won't be majority wins for Batman.
It won't be a pure hand-to-hand.What you'll have instead is a mini version of Spider-man versus Juggernaut, with Batman taking Spider-man's role and Colossus that of Juggernaut; perhaps even with similar odds.
[b]It is possible for a peak human to survive an errant, non-accurate blow from Colossus, even if Colossus isn't holding back.
Cyclops proved that when he took a slam-punch combination from Colossus in the original Dark Phoenix aftersaga.It's possible for a human level opponent to manipulate Colossus weight and take him off his feet. Again, proved by Cyclops when he fought not only Colossus but the rest of his teammates as well in the aforementioned skirmish. Currently you can refer to the Cyclops respect thread and see this in one of Black Adam's posts.
If time permits, I'll show perhaps 3 of those relevant images here myself. Significant to note that Cyclops fought most of that battle with busted ribs, pointing out point 3 ...It's possible for a human level opponent to outdistance and outmanuever Colossus. Dude is slow. He's ground bound and cannot fly. He also has a temper and can be goaded into rushing or following an opponent without really paying attention to his surroundings or even where he's going.
Again, see Cyclops versus the X-Men, post Dark Phoenix.Maybe I've been sleeping, but I haven't even seen where Colossus has significant leaping ability, in contrast to a character like Hulk.
Find a way to drop him down a sewer, or use an explosive batarang to collapse the street around him to achieve the same effect, and it should take Petey a little while to get topside again.
I imagine it would be easy for Batman to break into and hotwire a nearby vehicle to crash into him, if only to prove to himself that doesn't work, as general forum rules say he should know Piotr could no-sell anyway, but there's a whole city of options Bruce can try against Colossus that he wouldn't be able to make work against the leaper and flyer or speedster version of tank Bruce is used to.Colossus, however, unless someone can prove to me otherwise, is pure tank; you only need find something to mess with those treads ...
Pyro and Avalanche proved the combination of hot then cold is enough to break Colossus' resistance to either extreme by itself.
Note also that Batman only need to affect a relatively small area of Colossus like that to get a win NOT his whole body.
Shatter a kneecap for instance, an action perfectly within the character M.O. and limits of Batman, and Big C is down on the ground as you asked. [/B]
But there are two major arguments against it
1 Piotr while able to to be enraged is not a DUMB brick he is intelligent enough to see a patern to batmans attacks.
2 per forum rules Piotr knows that batman is a non enhanced human. Piotr is no fool he would know that batmans best option in this fight is to keep his distance and try to trap him.
Without PIS or CIS i can see Piotr ending it quickly with thunderclaps.
Originally posted by bluewaterriderColossus is at least in the 80 ton range villains/heroes from the 50 ton range up have used thunderclaps.
Also:I would need to see Peter thunderclapping to believe he can use such a thing in a fight. There's a strength threshhold you've got to pass before that becomes an option, after all. Not just anybody with any level of superstrength can do it, else you'd see Spider-man pulling that move all the time.
Piotr has always been Marvel's little-est "big" man.
Prove to me the thunderclap is something he's allowed to play with, please.----------------------------------------------------------------------
Speaking of sound attacks, has anyone ever used one on Petey?
I'm recalling now that hypersonics have dropped even Juggernaut, and that Batman, surprise, surprise, happens to carry a hypersonic emitter on his person. Least every version I'VE seen of Batman does.Somebody please respond and let me know if Colossus has any sound resistance I'm not aware of. If anything, that metal body of his should MAGNIFY the effect of audio.
Collosus can easily use thunderclaps
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
What you'll have instead is a mini version of Spider-man versus Juggernaut, with Batman taking Spider-man's role and Colossus that of Juggernaut; perhaps even with similar odds.[b]It is possible for a peak human to survive an errant, non-accurate blow from Colossus, even if Colossus isn't holding back.
Cyclops proved that when he took a slam-punch combination from Colossus in the original Dark Phoenix aftersaga.It's possible for a human level opponent to manipulate Colossus weight and take him off his feet. Again, proved by Cyclops when he fought not only Colossus but the rest of his teammates as well in the aforementioned skirmish. Currently you can refer to the Cyclops respect thread and see this in one of Black Adam's posts.
If time permits, I'll show perhaps 3 of those relevant images here myself. Significant to note that Cyclops fought most of that battle with busted ribs, pointing out point 3 ...It's possible for a human level opponent to outdistance and outmanuever Colossus. Dude is slow. He's ground bound and cannot fly. He also has a temper and can be goaded into rushing or following an opponent without really paying attention to his surroundings or even where he's going.
Again, see Cyclops versus the X-Men, post Dark Phoenix.Maybe I've been sleeping, but I haven't even seen where Colossus has significant leaping ability, in contrast to a character like Hulk.
Find a way to drop him down a sewer, or use an explosive batarang to collapse the street around him to achieve the same effect, and it should take Petey a little while to get topside again.
I imagine it would be easy for Batman to break into and hotwire a nearby vehicle to crash into him, if only to prove to himself that doesn't work, as general forum rules say he should know Piotr could no-sell anyway, but there's a whole city of options Bruce can try against Colossus that he wouldn't be able to make work against the leaper and flyer or speedster version of tank Bruce is used to.Colossus, however, unless someone can prove to me otherwise, is pure tank; you only need find something to mess with those treads ...
Pyro and Avalanche proved the combination of hot then cold is enough to break Colossus' resistance to either extreme by itself.
Note also that Batman only need to affect a relatively small area of Colossus like that to get a win NOT his whole body.
Shatter a kneecap for instance, an action perfectly within the character M.O. and limits of Batman, and Big C is down on the ground as you asked. [/B]
The only reason Spidey walked away from that battle is because he was lucky enough to fight Cain in a construction site. In AvX versus when he fought Colossusnaut in Latveria, he would have died fighting if Daredevil hadn't called for retreat. And Colossus was holding back.
As for his speed, Colossus is incredibly quick, and often takes people off guard by how fast and agile he is. Reference his fight with Savage Hulk back when he was a teenager. He used his skills and speed and agility to counter Hulk's greater strength. He's also had other displays such as flipping onto a wall, then pushing off and curling into a cannonball, launching himself off a wall to take down a larger opponent. If anything he's faster than normal people because of his superhuman attributes.
As for his leaping ability, he's never shown it, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be able to do it. Luke Cage didn't show he could jump until maybe a year ago, when he jumped at least 10 stories straight up because someone bad mouthed his wife. Colossus is one of the physically strongest mutants on the planet, has thrown Logan into near orbit, has punched through a mountain, has held up a multiple hundreds of tons ship. Jumping should be well within his capabilities, but as he's the X-Men's tank/strong man/brick, he's mainly just shown with his strength. The earlier example of him launching clear across a room comes to mind.
As for the heat extremes, it took one of the most powerful flame based villains at the time, and 5 tankers filled with thousands of gallons of absolute zero liquid nitro to do that. Batman on average doesn't have access to that amount of heat to either extreme, and nor does he have the time to employ it.
And Colossus is capable of the thunderclap. He's done it as Juggernaut, but he's easily within the strength range(low-mid Class 100) normally to do so. If Luke Cage(Class 30-50) can thunderclap, so can Pete.
As for sonics, I don't think they've ever been used specifically on him, but in New York, Batman would be dodging cars and all manner of heavy things coming at him at terminal velocity, so it would be hard to even use.
It's admirable you're fighting for Bats, but his standard arsenal isn't enough.