Originally posted by Nephthys
No, it's because OP characters have much greater speed in battle.
*Shrugs* Not to my eyes. If you can back it up, fine, but about the only speed area they look to be better in is how rapidly they attack.
The high-level speed rushes of Naruto stand up to any non-turn to light/lightning speed move in OP, and Minato's teleportation is as good as those (and arguably is quicker to trigger).
Originally posted by Q99Or it could be the fact that Luffy has been intercepting bullets by traveling hundreds of meters (While the bullets traveled ten) since the first chapters, the multiple instances of bullet and cannonball timing, Hodi's water bullets being double digit hypersonic and slow by Luffy's standards, etc.
Conversely- what proof is there of One Piece having higher? It seems to be just assumed, but I don't think there's much to back it up. One Piece does have higher strength, and I believe people just made the leap to assuming higher general stats.
Originally posted by Bentley
If the Logia just stands there and let Minato use it, sure...Unless you mean a fodder Logia like Caribou!
http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/504/5
1.It is invisible so they won't see it coming
2.It can do long distance
Originally posted by NemeBro
Or it could be the fact that Luffy has been intercepting bullets by traveling hundreds of meters (While the bullets traveled ten) since the first chapters, the multiple instances of bullet and cannonball timing, Hodi's water bullets being double digit hypersonic and slow by Luffy's standards, etc.
To be fair, the narutoverse doesn't have bullets and cannonballs to dodge. lol
Also, aren't these bullets and cannonballs slower than modern weapons? This is pirate era tech as far as guns and cannons are concerned right? It's still fast, but I don't think it is outside of the realm of what naruto characters were capable of early on as well. If you want to take databooks seriously, then wasn't Sasuke nearly tracking and dodging lightspeed movements early in the manga? lol
Originally posted by socool8520
To be fair, the narutoverse doesn't have bullets and cannonballs to dodge. lolAlso, aren't these bullets and cannonballs slower than modern weapons? This is pirate era tech as far as guns and cannons are concerned right? It's still fast, but I don't think it is outside of the realm of what naruto characters were capable of early on as well. If you want to take databooks seriously, then wasn't Sasuke nearly tracking and dodging lightspeed movements early in the manga? lol
Originally posted by socool8520Indeed, probably because by Kishi's own words, guns would be a gamebreaker for most ninja.
To be fair, the narutoverse doesn't have bullets and cannonballs to dodge. lolAlso, aren't these bullets and cannonballs slower than modern weapons? This is pirate era tech as far as guns and cannons are concerned right? It's still fast, but I don't think it is outside of the realm of what naruto characters were capable of early on as well. If you want to take databooks seriously, then wasn't Sasuke nearly tracking and dodging lightspeed movements early in the manga? lol
It depends on the bullet and cannon.
Van Auger's bullets certainly aren't.
Also, lasers.
Originally posted by NemeBro
Indeed, probably because by Kishi's own words, guns would be a gamebreaker for most ninja.
Or maybe because they are ninjas and don't use guns 😛
I really think Naruto characters have shown similar speed feats to Naruto characters. Luffy dodges lasers, Sasuke dodged some of Haku's near light speed movements. Luffy's pistol barrage is similar to Gai's 1000 peacock attack.
Even if one universe has faster characters overall, I don't see the difference being large enough that the latter universe couldn't keep pace or even perform well.
Originally posted by Rikudo sennin
http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/504/51.It is invisible so they won't see it coming
2.It can do long distance
I actually meant that Minato could get speedblitzed by some... But I like this tech so I'm not going to argue against it, I should use it everytime someone posts a DBZ vs Naruto thread 😎
^ But assuming Luffy dodged a laser and not the person using it is legit?
Regardless, Haku states that he uses the reflection of the mirrors to pass through a given mirror, and I was under the impression that light refracting off the mirror/ice is pretty close to light speed. Sure, maybe the needles were a bit slower, but extremely fast tech nonetheless.
You citing lasers, lasers, lasers, gets tired pretty quick as well
Originally posted by socool8520
^ But assuming Luffy dodged a laser and not the person using it is legit?
Considering he referred to the laser as slow, yes.
Also, I don't actually subscribe to that particular laser being lightspeed, ftr. It's been calced at mach 15.
Regardless, Haku states that he uses the reflection of the mirrors to pass through a given mirror, and I was under the impression that light refracting off the mirror/ice is pretty to light speed. Sure, maybe the needles were a bit slower, but extremely fast tech nonetheless.You citing lasers, lasers, lasers, gets tired pretty quick as well
He states he uses the reflection to travel from mirror to mirror.
I'll note that Guy's Afternoon Tiger, referred to as a supersonic attack, is the greatest showing of speed in the series.
Originally posted by NemeBro
Considering he referred to the laser as slow, yes.Also, I don't actually subscribe to that particular laser being lightspeed, ftr. It's been calced at mach 15.
Ehhh....I had taken it as the person in general, not the actual laser but okay.
He states he uses the reflection to travel from mirror to mirror.I'll note that Guy's Afternoon Tiger, referred to as a supersonic attack, is the greatest showing of speed in the series. [/B]
Isn't that what I said? His reflections traveling from mirror to mirror is still caused by light passing through the mirror. Granted, the speed decreases, but I was under the impression it was still around 2/3 light speed. I'm not saying it's light speed, but it is pretty f'in fast.
Wasn't there a calc of the pain fight that showed like mach 13 or something? and that was awhile ago in the series. Naruto is faster than that now. Minato would be also.
Originally posted by Bentley
I actually meant that Minato could get speedblitzed by some... But I like this tech so I'm not going to argue against it, I should use it everytime someone posts a DBZ vs Naruto thread 😎
Minato himself is fast and if he had to do the hand seals in close combat he could erect a space time barrier to protect himself while he does it. He could beat most logia's.
Originally posted by NemeBro
Considering he referred to the laser as slow, yes.Also, I don't actually subscribe to that particular laser being lightspeed, ftr. It's been calced at mach 15.
He states he uses the reflection to travel from mirror to mirror.
I'll note that Guy's Afternoon Tiger, referred to as a supersonic attack, is the greatest showing of speed in the series.
Um no the frs calc surpassed any calc for gai and now that we have people in the series reacting or dodging that with ease we have double digit mach characters. The fact you tell others that naruto characters are at best supersonic despite there being threads I have shown with calcs showing otherwise is simply astounding.
Originally posted by NemeBro
Or it could be the fact that Luffy has been intercepting bullets by traveling hundreds of meters (While the bullets traveled ten) since the first chapters, the multiple instances of bullet and cannonball timing, Hodi's water bullets being double digit hypersonic and slow by Luffy's standards, etc.
The bullets, being flintlock, are likely slower than that, and heck, seem slower than Usopp's slingshot. We've seen projectiles visibly move quite slowly (the normal marines were able to notice and react to the cannonballs fired by Capoine before they hit).
And, oh yea, Naruto characters still move longer distances in shorter periods of time, regularly, and we see OP characters try and travel distances and take awhile to do so repeatedly. Most of the fast OP stuff is just burst speed, and you might say, 'well, ok, Naruto has better sustained speed but OP has the option of burst,' but Naruto has very fast bursts too that travel much, much faster than the distance travel that covers kilometers over short times.
And I will note, a lot of people are trying to scale off of projectile speeds, a mach 15 laser and all that. Well, to that, let me point out how in baseball, a 45mph pitch is really slow and easy to hit to a pro, but it's still way faster than they can go. Finding a projectile slow doesn't mean you're faster than it, or even remotely as fast, just that, at it's speed, you can react to it.
You can be 1/10th the speed of something and still react to it just fine.
OP deals with high speed projectiles pretty often, but Naruto has the better speed feats.