The Avengers Vs Darksied

Originally posted by -K-M-
I'm not the one that said grab or hold him, but you are claiming it would be easy and a "pure beatdown" here.

Discalimer If this is DCNu DS he did hold the riduclously powered Superman with no trouble.

Hulk and Thor laying the beat down on Darkseid is far more likely an outcome in this thread than "Darkseid picks up Hulk and one shots Thor with him". But Keith is as Keith does, so I may as well have some fun it.

DCnU Darkseid has even less feats to suggest he'd walk away from this okay.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I know, hence the smilie.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Hulk and Thor laying the beat down on Darkseid is far more likely an outcome in this thread than "Darkseid picks up Hulk and one shots Thor with him". But Keith is as Keith does, so I may as well have some fun it.

DCnU Darkseid has even less feats to suggest he'd walk away from this okay.

Once again where did I say that? Not really if he uses his powers. He could BFR basically majority of the time, use his telepathy to control the team, use his Shadow Demons to fight, use the Omega Sanction ( live multiple lifespans in an instant forcing them to suffer as their lives have become twisted and dark), use his matter manipulation powers, time manipulation, his technology, etc.

Agreed, but you brought up the claim about holding Hulk and then I mentioned he held DCNu Superman. Do I think he will do it here? I would hope not

Originally posted by -K-M-
Once again where did I say that? Not really if he uses his powers. He could BFR basically majority of the time, use his telepathy to control the team, use his Shadow Demons to fight, use the Omega Sanction ( live multiple lifespans in an instant forcing them to suffer as their lives have become twisted and dark), use his matter manipulation powers, his technology, etc.

Agreed, but you brought up the claim about holding Hulk and then I mentioned he held DCNu Superman. Do I think he will do it here? I would hope not

I didn't say you said that at all - I actually mentioned who did say that anyway - so you can rest easy. I was/am mostly having some lighthearted fun in this thread. And Thor could use a variety of his plot device hammer powers and Hulk could just get as mad as he needed to be to physically begin to hurt Darkseid pretty badly.

DCnU Superman wasn't operating at planetary level strength when Darkseid restrained him so I'm not sure how that would count as a feat for him.

Yet he uses his exotic powers less then Darkseid, and it would not be an easy feat for Thor. If majority of the time Superman struggles with DS, Thor is not going to have an easier time. Hulk could be controlled via telepathy or simply a wave of his hand and be teleported away

I don't, but there was no mention of Superman holding back. On the contrary I doubt he was, as he was being pulled into the Boom Tube and couldn't do anything about it.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Yet he uses his exotic powers less then Darkseid, and it would not be an easy feat for Thor. If majority of the time Superman struggles with DS, Thor is not going to have an easier time.

I don't, but there was no mention of Superman holding back. On the contrary I doubt he was, as he was being pulled into the Boom Tube and couldn't do anything about it.

That's debatable, imo. Thor would struggle with Darkseid, true, but he has options that Superman doesn't (who likewise is physically faster and stronger than Thor) so it roughly winds up to be about the same in terms of overall formidability against Darkseid. And Thor's not exactly alone here, either.

There was nothing shown in that comic/arc to even begin to suggest Superman was a planetary level force and if we use his one feat of benching the planet and retroactively apply it to Superman and his foes...well, it's going to get ridiculous as proved a week or so ago in the appropriate threads.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
That's debatable, imo. Thor would struggle with Darkseid, true, but he has options that Superman doesn't (who likewise is physically faster and stronger than Thor) so it roughly winds up to be about the same in terms of overall formidability against Darkseid. And Thor's not exactly alone here, either.

There was nothing shown in that comic/arc to even begin to suggest Superman was a planetary level force and if we use his one feat of benching the planet and retroactively apply it to Superman and his foes...well, it's going to get ridiculous as proved a week or so ago in the appropriate threads.

and the speed and strength is what got him the edge over DS in that one story. So what other options does Thor have? a God Blast he never uses? He's not, but as mentioned DS has abilities that could BFR or turn them all against each other or use his Shadow Demons to fight for him.

So Superman struggling to break free wasn't using his full strength to break free? Interesting. The old possum route eh? Clever 🙄 Regardless I don't see the holding/grabbing a viable tactic, but Superman with all his strength couldn't break free. No clue why your not giving DS his dues.

thor could use rain to pin darkseid down 😐

...at least according to jake

Originally posted by -K-M-
and the speed and strength is what got him the edge over DS in that one story. So what other options does Thor have? a God Blast he never uses? He's not, but as mentioned DS has abilities that could BFR or turn them all against each other or use his Shadow Demons to fight for him.

So Superman struggling to break free wasn't using his full strength to break free? Interesting. The old possum route eh? Clever 🙄 Regardless I don't see the holding/grabbing a viable tactic, but Superman with all his strength couldn't break free. No clue why your not giving DS his dues.

Erm, vast energy/matter manipulation ability, superior ranged attacks, powerful and virtually unbreakable defenses, planetary+ level storms, etc as opposed to Superman? All things he's done far more than the Godblast which I personally don't even bother bringing up most of the time in a forum fight.

He wasn't penned as having planetary level strength when he fought Darkseid, and such a recent revelation doesn't mean he retroactively was using planetary strength against Darkseid, who in turn, was possessed by planetary level strength to say nothing that that's the level of strength he's going to be using consistently here on out either. There's no "old possum route" to speak of. And me not thinking that DCnU Darkseid has planetary level+++ strength via feats doesn't mean I'm not giving him dues, either.

Originally posted by Starscream M
thor could use rain to pin darkseid down 😐

...at least according to jake

You being butthurt that Thor used supernatural rain to immobilize Savage Hulk on panel has no bearing on this argument.

I hear they have some tasty Clorox on sale, though. Why don't you go treat yourself to a nice refreshing beverage?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Erm, vast energy/matter manipulation ability, superior ranged attacks, powerful and virtually unbreakable defenses, planetary+ level storms, etc as opposed to Superman? All things he's done far more than the Godblast which I personally don't even bother bringing up most of the time in a forum fight.

He wasn't penned as having planetary level strength when he fought Darkseid, and such a recent revelation doesn't mean he retroactively was using planetary strength against Darkseid, who in turn, was possessed by planetary level strength to say nothing that that's the level of strength he's going to be using consistently here on out either. There's no "old possum route" to speak of. And me not thinking that DCnU Darkseid has planetary level+++ strength via feats doesn't mean I'm not giving him dues, either.

Which DS has, and ranged attacks really? haha what do you think DS has? Unbreakable defenses? Hardly. What's a storm going to do to DS? Not convinced in the least Thor would do better then Superman

and? Doesn't take away the fact whatever the supposed strength of Superman was at the time he STILL could NOT break free. All his strength failed against DCNu Darkseid. Really not much else to debate about as that was shown in the comic clear as day.

Originally posted by -K-M-
What's a storm going to do to DS?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
You being butthurt that Thor used supernatural rain to immobilize Savage Hulk on panel has no bearing on this argument.

I hear they have some tasty Clorox on sale, though. Why don't you go treat yourself to a nice refreshing beverage?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank

There was nothing shown in that comic/arc to even begin to suggest Superman was a planetary level force and if we use his one feat of benching the planet and retroactively apply it to Superman and his foes...

This is correct. Superman's powers have been steadily growing in DCnU and this has even been stated on panel several times. At first he was getting hurt by normal electric shocks. So I don't believe we can use the bench pressing the earth version against darkseid as any kind of measuring stick. Especially given the wildly different timelines between Superman, Action Comics and JLA in DCnU.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Which DS has, and ranged attacks really? haha what do you think DS has? Unbreakable defenses? Hardly. What's a storm going to do to DS? Not convinced in the least Thor would do better then Superman

and? Doesn't take away the fact whatever the supposed strength of Superman was at the time he STILL could NOT break free. All his strength failed against DCNu Darkseid. Really not much else to debate about as that was shown in the comic clear as day.

😐

Did you even read - or comprehend - what I posted? I said that Thor has options that Superman doesn't have to make up for his lack of speed and strength, but that he overall, possesses the same formidability against the likes of Darkseid that Superman does. Not that he would do better.

Further elaborating, where did I, AT ALL, claim Darkseid didn't possess ranged attacks? That entire post was directed to the options Thor has in a fight as compared to Superman, and yes, Thor's ranged attacks and methods are superior as a whole to Superman's heat vision and ice breath. I also stated "virtually" unbreakable defenses, which have done things such as absorb galaxy destroying energy, prevent universal destruction, create vortexes of pure energy that the likes of Hulk physically couldn't breach and the likes of which Hela for all her mystic might couldn't overcome, either. And Thor's higher end storms - the ones composed of hundred or thousands worth of planets - would be a factor against the likes of Darkseid (ie. his fight with Glory). Anything to the contrary is laughable, tbh. And that's being perfectly fair to him. If you don't think Thor can do better than Superman, that's cool, I guess. If you don't think he can do as good as him based on his ability and what he's done on panel, well, that's just kind of ridiculous.

At the time, both Hulk and Thor had better feats (and still do) as a whole than DCnU Superman, so yeah, Darkseid restraining him doesn't automatically means he enjoys the same success against the likes of Hulk and/or Thor. Hulk, especially, is noted for, y'know, rapidly amping in strength. So yeah, it's highly unlikely that DCnU Darkseid would or could overpower Hulk with the same success rate that he did Superman who clearly wasn't benching planets at the time.

Oh sorry I thought you were making a comparison to Thor and DS, but you were doing Thor and Superman. That was my mistake.

So it sum it up you think Thor would do better against DS then Superman would? If so make a thread.

Originally posted by Starscream M
it will stop DS flat in his tracks, as it has done so to hulk...which surely wasn't PIS or poor writing. 😐

I guess you took me up on my suggestion to drink some bleach.

Once you realize that Thor's command of the weather goes far beyond what's natural in terms of science - because he's a Norse Deity 😐 - the better off you'll be in the end run concerning Thor and his capabilities.

Originally posted by Starscream M
and how many times has thor used rain to immobilize CL100 foes?

He's used rain plenty of time in the midst of battles, either as a means to rejuvenate himself or a side effect of his encompassing storm.

You being butthurt that one of your favorite characters ( 😂 ) managed to use supernatural rain to halt Hulk in his tracks is just that: you being butthurt.

Rain holding Hulk is pretty ridic really. Even "magical" rain.

Don't kid yourself, superman is more formidable than thor in most type of combat either on average or in high end feats.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Oh sorry I thought you were making a comparison to Thor and DS, but you were doing Thor and Superman. That was my mistake.

So it sum it up you think Thor would do better against DS then Superman would? If so make a thread.

It's fine. Mistakes happen.

I have no problem making the thread, but I'm about 99% convinced it has been made before. And it will likely devolve into a Thor/Superman versus thread as these things oft do.