Space Marine v.s. Jedi

For this thread Jimmy the totally average Astartes faces Johnny the equally average Jedi.

This are standard, run of the mill examples of their orders, not special characters or exceptional heroes. Just Jimmy and Johnny.

They're armed with their standard gear, lightsaber and force junk v.s. bolter, pistol, knife ect, and fight in the following scenarios.

1. 100 meter starting distance, spotting each other as they enter an emptied street.

2. 30 meter starting distance, fighting in a gymnasium.

3. 10 meter starting distance, in a hallway.

4. 2 meters, on a hill.

5. Are given neckties, and their neckties are tied together at the ends, and made of adamantium laced fabric.

How's it go?

Movies are the primary canon as always but EU examples are allowed for SW.

Jedi levitates the marines gun arm into the air and beats him to death with it.

The marine shoots him. We all know how well your typical jedi performs against slug throwers, and I doubt they could really lift the marine, let alone over power him.

How is he going to shoot him if his gun is pointing straight up into the air? Mara Jade, as a padawan, was able to toss a 2 ton safe.

Also, how do Jedi perform against slug throwers? I imagine it would be, "easier than against blasters"?

It's actually worse.

Blasters are easily visible bolts of energy and once fired stay in a straight line until they hit something or dissipate.

Slugthrowers shoot hard to see projectiles that can veer off course at a moments notice.

An automatic slugthrower can cause more problems than an automatic blaster.

But an Average Jedi Knight(that's the most numerous rank that would be in battle on their own) has a number of tools to handle that if they don't act stupid. A simple force yank to get the gun out of his hands. It's open season after tha.

Originally posted by Tzeentch._
How is he going to shoot him if his gun is pointing straight up into the air? Mara Jade, as a padawan, was able to toss a 2 ton safe.

Also, how do Jedi perform against slug throwers? I imagine it would be, "easier than against blasters"?

@KingD19 A Space marine's physical strength probably put force yanking away the gun out of the question. 😛

What sort of feats do Space Marines have strengthwise?

Lifting armoured personnel carriers over their heads, tearing open tank hatches, the hinges and the like of which would be made of plasteel, a superdurable metal that stands up to things like bolter fire extremely well.

Bolters or boltguns are essentially rapidfire armour piercing rocket propelled grenade launchers. Bolts are self propelled shells with 'diamantine' tips designed to penetrate their target and then explode, because grimdark.

Even without their armour they destroy the training servitors that they use to practice combat against. Their armour increases their strength, though.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I highly doubt a run of the mill jedi is overpowering a space marine with TK, and it's pretty well known that jedi have more trouble with solid projectile weapons than blasters.

No. It's really not. It would take very little power for a Jedi to knock a bullet off course. In the old Clone Wars series, we see Obi-Wan do this to some sort of machine gun.

Not that it matters. You're "average" Jedi is a terrible combatant who can be cut down by the dozens by a skilled warrior. Hell, Jango Fett kills several Jedi in "Open Seasons" with his bare hands.

The Space Marine takes this.

Yes, pretty much. 40K is stupid as hell in terms of capabilities.

Not really.

It isn't nearly as powerful as Doctor Who for example.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
[B]I highly doubt a run of the mill jedi is overpowering a space marine with TK,

and it's pretty well known that jedi have more trouble with solid projectile weapons than blasters.

Uhhh... what is the source for this? lol. I've read 60% of the EU, and I've never noticed Jedi struggling against solid projectiles.

Oh come on, 'diamantine'. Because its a cross between diamonds and adamantine? Why not just call them Godfvcker bullets.

Doctor Who is schlocky and absurd as well though. Like how the Doctor can create devices to kill whole species' in 5 minutes with stuff he finds laying around. You're not meant to take it seriously.

Originally posted by Tzeentch._
Prove this. I'm really not sure what your definition is of an average Jedi. I just pointed out that Mara Jade as an apprentice was able to lift 2000 pounds with her mind. That's about as weak as you can get.

Uhhh... what is the source for this? lol. I've read 60% of the EU, and I've never noticed Jedi struggling against solid projectiles.

Anyway, the slug thrower thing comes from a lot of places, and I actually only even know about it because I associate with a bunch of you EU fehgs. uhuh So, internet to the rescue.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Slugthrower

Slugthrowers were often looked down upon due to their use of projectile ammunition which are ballistic resulting in the shooter needing to plot the trajectory of his or her shot and requires a reasonable amount of practice. While a blaster bolt would dissipate after it had reached past its maximum effective range, it would not drop and thus was considered superior in terms of accuracy. A slug, however, would drop to the ground once it had far surpassed its maximum effective range. However, they remained popular for the unique advantages they offered. For example, during the days of the Galactic Republic, mercenaries fearing an intervention by Jedi Knights used rapid-fire slugthrowers that were impossible to completely deflect, unlike blaster bolts. They were also popular amongst forces looking to take advantage of the explosive nature for intimidation or to ensure destruction. Whatever they lacked in functionality, they regained in stealth. A slugthrower could be silenced while a blaster usually could not. Also, blaster rounds were almost always visible. Although this could be seen as an advantage, non-tracer rounds used by slugthrowers added an extra element of confusion and surprise, not allowing the target to see where the shots were coming from. Furthermore, slugthrowers were generally cheaper and more easily repaired than blasters. In addition, the projectile itself could have unique properties. Explosive, incendiary and mercy slugs each had different effects. Explosive ammo dealt additional kinetic damage to a target. Incendiary ammunition could cause burns that were as dangerous as the projectile, or set items on fire. Mercy bullets made of rubber or semi-rigid plastic gave a way to set a slugthrower on 'stun'. Of course, this meant carrying extra ammo or magazines—and special rounds were costlier and rarer than conventional slugs. Bounty hunters that carried slugthrowers tended to make extensive use of special ammo in their work. Some mixed rounds in the same magazine, starting with mercy slugs and working their way up to more lethal types in case the less deadly projectiles failed to stop their opponents. According to Phloremirlla Tenk, slugthrowers also seemed to be a more rugged and reliable weapon than a blaster, stating that they "last forever", whereas blasters "never fire again" after "a day or two in the jungle".

http://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/13695/why-would-a-slug-thrower-be-more-effective-against-a-lightsaber-jedi-than-a-blas

http://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/13701/is-there-an-explicit-canon-answer-for-the-exact-speed-of-blaster-bolts-in-star-w

Found a KMC thread, read it

Originally posted by Nephthys
In DN, even Luke noticed that they were hard to block iirc, but yep, tehy were doing it.

I'd cite the book/whatever myself but have no idea what DN stands for!

Which reminds me, having cited a poster on a gaming forum, Jedi Outcast apparently advises you to shoot Jedi you don't wish to deal with up close or in duels. Neat.

It seems generally accepted from all this reading you forced on me that

1. SW armour is generally bullet proof, leading to "**** slug throwers".

2. Blast bolts are considered by most people to be slower than bullets? Makes sense, I guess, I just hadn't expected that being that I don't delve into the horrid and ugly underbelly of Star Wars that is anything other than the original trilogy. biscuits

It also seems, and someone quoted a novel on this, that it's harder to manipulate smaller objects with the force.

Her Twi'lek Master had once explained to her that sensitivity and fine-tuning came with time. "As a Padawan," he had said, "I could push boulders around with ease, but seeds were next to impossible."

This leads to the following conundrum;

A bullet cannot be deflected by a saber, only melted into molten doom slag, and only a highly skilled force user can manipulate a small object moving so quickly.

...However, if Jedi just wore ****ing armour this would be a non-issue, apparently. haermm

Dark Nest.

Jedi do wear armor in wartime btw.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Dark Nest.

Jedi do wear armor in wartime btw.

And good, because seriously, their biggest weakness seems to be the tendency to wear a bathrobe, since the weapons in their universe that can actually penetrate armour are guesstimated by the fans to move at pretty blatantly subsonic speeds.

It wasn't actually a 'gun' in that book, it was a shatter gun, which fires using magnetic fields. Dunno if that counts or whatever but there ya go.

I guess its for the mobility. A lightsaber >>> most armor so you want to be able to block things as easily as possible.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
[B]I'm talking about a Jedi completely typical in all levels of power and skill. So, a mook. A Jedi mook v.s. a Space mook.

Anyway, the slug thrower thing comes from a lot of places, and I actually only even know about it because I associate with a bunch of you EU fehgs. uhuh So, internet to the rescue.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Slugthrower

http://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/13695/why-would-a-slug-thrower-be-more-effective-against-a-lightsaber-jedi-than-a-blas

http://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/13701/is-there-an-explicit-canon-answer-for-the-exact-speed-of-blaster-bolts-in-star-w

1. A rapid fire slugthrower could mean a thousand bullets a second, which would overwhelm most Jedi, yes, but that's also way faster than a Bolter's RoF. "Rapid fire slugthrower" is too vague to be substantial, as it doesn't say how fast the RoF needs to be to overwhelm the Jedi.

2. There is no source listed for that statement, so it doesn't carry much weight.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It wasn't actually a 'gun' in that book, it was a shatter gun, which fires using magnetic fields. Dunno if that counts or whatever but there ya go.

I guess its for the mobility. A lightsaber >>> most armor so you want to be able to block things as easily as possible.

Originally posted by Tzeentch._
Force potential doesn't work like soldiers in an army. There are jedi masters who are practically useless at using telepathy; similarly a group of padawans with only months of force training managed to force push a fleet of Star Destroyers so hard that they were pushed across an expanse of several light-years. There is no such thing as a typical Jedi.

1. A rapid fire slugthrower could mean a thousand bullets a second, which would overwhelm most Jedi, yes, but that's also way faster than a Bolter's RoF. "Rapid fire slugthrower" is too vague to be substantial, as it doesn't say how fast the RoF needs to be to overwhelm the Jedi.

2. There is no source listed for that statement, so it doesn't carry much weight.

Rapidfire just means rapidfire. Bolters are rapidfire. There's no given minimal or maximum rate of fire given, so we can't make insane assumptions.

And I know for a fact mook Jedi exist. Every Jedi who is never named on screen in the movies is one.

Same is true of Spehss Mehreens. You're just trying to avoid my devious trap with your whiteboy dancing.