How close could thor come to bench pressing the earth once?

Originally posted by Silent Master
IOW, you're arguing that current Superman is 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 to 100,000,000,000,000,000,000 times stronger than Thor.

If Thor's greatest quantifiable strength feat is even on par with All-Star Superman's (which I doubt it would be), that would put his best lifted weight at 3% of current Superman 's.

Yet the difference would be far greater than that, as 6 sextillion tons was light enough to be bench-pressed for 5 days, as opposed to once, and the limits of the machine were high enough make the planet implode on itself(which must be insanely high if being set to 6 sextillion tons was not high enough to do so), if Dr. Veritas turned it up to find Superman's limit.

Originally posted by zopzop

How does this compare to post Crisis Superman? We already seen DCNu Supes lift a planetary level weight. If he has any other lifting feats in this category, we can safely say he's leagues above Thor in terms of "lifting" strength.

GL created a harness and he pulled the planet. Lifted the moon back into position as it was on collision course with Earth. Moved the moon/planets on nearly a dozen occasions. Pounding his fist on the JLA Moonbase nearly sent it out of orbit, while he was having trouble controlling his power. He outright stated in battles at least 3 seperate occasions that the casual punches he was throwing could crack planets or moons [and even hinted that it wasn't his mightiest blows], told us in a scan I posted earlier in the thread that he was capable of bench-pressing the Earth. Held a small Black Hole [noting the gravity] in his hand. A blast of heat vision provided enough energy to move a planet 6 times larger than Earth -- while under a red sun. And tons of other stuff I'm not even thinking of at the moment.

His 'big' feats become the hard/impossible to quantify of mythic status; The Maggeddon feat. The Infinite Book, carrying The Bleed, etc,

People like to think some of the stuff is hyperbole, but when he says it and does it, it kind of throws it out of the window, and makes it clearly writers intention.

He almost hardly belongs in the 'high herald' bracket, because his 'average' is their all time highs. And his higher feats often involve him blatantly overpowering/toe-to-toeing w/ skyfathers/abstracts and shit. [Dominus/Imperiex/Blaze/Cythonna/Doomsday/Darkseid, etc]

Originally posted by CosmicComet
If Thor's greatest quantifiable strength feat is even on par with All-Star Superman's (which I doubt it would be), that would put his best lifted weight at 3% of current Superman 's.

Yet the difference would be far greater than that, as 6 sextillion tons was light enough to be bench-pressed for 5 days, as opposed to once, and the limits of the machine were high enough make the planet implode on itself(which must be insanely high if being set to 6 sextillion tons was not high enough to do so), if Dr. Veritas turned it up to find Superman's limit.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
but then you disagree when i say guys like Captain Marvel And Black Adam are stronger than thor?

Not at all.

Why would I?

Originally posted by Juntai
Hulk in the last couple of years is the only one to match Superman's consistency involving big time in and out of combat feats, and it took canonically the strongest version of the character to match those averages.

When you can show any high Herald punching each other, melting Heralds within the vicintity, holla at me. That ain't happening bro, sorry. Superman is strong but not Hulk strong and lol at average. The weakest of Hulks was pulling off planetary strength and maxing out test and being marked as having unlimited strength. Just hush.

Originally posted by Juntai
It's DCnu's biggest to date- but they're only a year of issues in, and have largely been 'Year One' stories set in the past , but Superman has a lot of stuff post crisis.

GL created a harness and he pulled the planet. Lifted the moon back into position as it was on collision course with Earth. Moved the moon/planets on nearly a dozen occasions. Pounding his fist on the JLA Moonbase nearly sent it out of orbit, while he was having trouble controlling his power. He outright stated in battles at least 3 seperate occasions that the casual punches he was throwing could crack planets or moons [and even hinted that it wasn't his mightiest blows], told us in a scan I posted earlier in the thread that he was capable of bench-pressing the Earth. Held a small Black Hole [noting the gravity] in his hand. A blast of heat vision provided enough energy to move a planet 6 times larger than Earth -- while under a red sun. And tons of other stuff I'm not even thinking of at the moment.

His 'big' feats become the hard/impossible to quantify of mythic status; The Maggeddon feat. The Infinite Book, carrying The Bleed, etc,

People like to think some of the stuff is hyperbole, but when he says it and does it, it kind of throws it out of the window, and makes it clearly writers intention.

He almost hardly belongs in the 'high herald' bracket, because his 'average' is their all time highs. And his higher feats often involve him blatantly overpowering/toe-to-toeing w/ skyfathers/abstracts and shit. [Dominus/Imperiex/Blaze/Cythonna/Doomsday/Darkseid, etc]

So if I'm to understand you correctly, you're essentially saying that the toughest/highest level of foes, challenges etc that Thor (since he's in this thread) has faced are average things that Superman faces and overcomes on a relatively regular basis?

That's exactly what he is saying. By the way, good post Philo.

Originally posted by Philosophía
What Thor did there, and what people are passing it as, is similar to me saying that Superman [and the new gods] is capable of blowing planets with his heat vision, or holding them in his hand, based on this scan, where he is in the New Gods world, interacting with the normal [main DCU] dimension:

First of all, the Serpent didn't encoil Earth in normal space, he went into the Void [notice its size in Asgard space - nowhere near continent, country or even city wide]:

That's why he is said to be in his etheral form, in the normal dimension [Earth's sphere]:

And that's why Thor needed to go to Asgard to deal with the Serpent, otherwise it would have made damage in the normal [Earth's] Universe:

Once there, Thor travels by boat in the void between Asgard and Earth [where the Serpent is] and uses a simple bull to fish it out:

http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/Thor_1983_327_15.jpg
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/Thor_1983_327_16.jpg
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/Thor_1983_327_17.jpg

In the subsequent showdown we, again, painfully see that the Serpent is nowhere near continent/Earth sized, relative to Thor [thus the bull being used as bait, lol]:

http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/Thor_1983_327_18.jpg
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/Thor_1983_327_19.jpg
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/Thor_1983_327_20.jpg

It is flat-out stated that space [and time] aren't the same in the Void [as if this wasn't ridiculously obvious anyway - when Thor fishes the goddamn Serpent in a boat using a bull from its supposed Earth-sized proportions]:

In the Void [as in the New Gods world] the normal limits and proportions of time/space don't apply. That's why, eventough the Serpent was small enough for Thor to stand face-to-face with him, and get fished out with a bull, he was capable of encoiling the Earth, and crushing it with his etheral form [as seen in the normal space/time] from the Void.
It's a non-feat.
This feat has been one of the most baffling, well kept lies in the history of KMC.

Void can mean the emptiness of space,

Ethereal can mean celestial/heavenly. Which the Serpent was big enough to be in that arc if it can crush a planet

Astral sized depictions have never been that good in comics especially in that era. When trying to show someone do something to a planet it's hard to do and keep proportions correct.

Just look at Superboy towing the planets. We see the chain next to him to get a good judgement of how big it is compared to him.

Now we also see the chain linking between the planets so unless those are incredibly small planets the size of large houses/cruise ships/towers I can safely assume the artist just didn't get the size portions right.

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=superman+towing+planets&num=10&hl=en&tbo=d&biw=1280&bih=631&tbm=isch&tbnid=AkxQwmr748zauM:&imgrefurl=http://www.comicvine.com/superman/29-1807/what-is-the-strongest-version-of-superman/92-647217/&docid=UQE-JHBzmGiGPM&imgurl=http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/108927/2155403-2.jpg&w=500&h=250&ei=Y4DOUIbFFIbDyQHJwoCgBg&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=3&sig=103473122807037499581&page=1&tbnh=132&tbnw=264&start=0&ndsp=26&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0,i:93&tx=147&ty=69

Your last scan is probably the best one for supporting your claim I'll give you that one is hard to argue against. Still it could just be a cool way for the writer to state the battle took place in space and no one knew how long it took cause no one is around and that space and time have no natural boundaries to them in the blackness of space. It's not like those type of comments are unknown to comics.

At least in the Orion/Superman exchange there is a dimensional barrier separating everything but according to your theory anyone could get on a boat fly from Asgard to any world or Earth and break it apart easily from the void.

I would think that type of thing would at least appear in another Thor comic somewhere if that was the writer's true intention for the story.

Originally posted by Philosophía
What Thor did there, and what people are passing it as, is similar to me saying that Superman [and the new gods] is capable of blowing planets with his heat vision, or holding them in his hand, based on this scan, where he is in the New Gods world, interacting with the normal [main DCU] dimension:

First of all, the Serpent didn't encoil Earth in normal space, he went into the Void [notice its size in Asgard space - nowhere near continent, country or even city wide]:

That's why he is said to be in his etheral form, in the normal dimension [Earth's sphere]:

And that's why Thor needed to go to Asgard to deal with the Serpent, otherwise it would have made damage in the normal [Earth's] Universe:

Once there, Thor travels by boat in the void between Asgard and Earth [where the Serpent is] and uses a simple bull to fish it out:

http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/Thor_1983_327_15.jpg
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/Thor_1983_327_16.jpg
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/Thor_1983_327_17.jpg

In the subsequent showdown we, again, painfully see that the Serpent is nowhere near continent/Earth sized, relative to Thor [thus the bull being used as bait, lol]:

http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/Thor_1983_327_18.jpg
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/Thor_1983_327_19.jpg
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/Thor_1983_327_20.jpg

It is flat-out stated that space [and time] aren't the same in the Void [as if this wasn't ridiculously obvious anyway - when Thor fishes the goddamn Serpent in a boat using a bull from its supposed Earth-sized proportions]:

In the Void [as in the New Gods world] the normal limits and proportions of time/space don't apply. That's why, eventough the Serpent was small enough for Thor to stand face-to-face with him, and get fished out with a bull, he was capable of encoiling the Earth, and crushing it with his etheral form [as seen in the normal space/time] from the Void.
It's a non-feat.
This feat has been one of the most baffling, well kept lies in the history of KMC.

Originally posted by Philosophía
What Thor did there, and what people are passing it as, is similar to me saying that Superman [and the new gods] is capable of blowing planets with his heat vision, or holding them in his hand, based on this scan, where he is in the New Gods world, interacting with the normal [main DCU] dimension:

First of all, the Serpent didn't encoil Earth in normal space, he went into the Void [notice its size in Asgard space - nowhere near continent, country or even city wide]:

That's why he is said to be in his etheral form, in the normal dimension [Earth's sphere]:

And that's why Thor needed to go to Asgard to deal with the Serpent, otherwise it would have made damage in the normal [Earth's] Universe:

Once there, Thor travels by boat in the void between Asgard and Earth [where the Serpent is] and uses a simple bull to fish it out:

http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/Thor_1983_327_15.jpg
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/Thor_1983_327_16.jpg
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/Thor_1983_327_17.jpg

In the subsequent showdown we, again, painfully see that the Serpent is nowhere near continent/Earth sized, relative to Thor [thus the bull being used as bait, lol]:

http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/Thor_1983_327_18.jpg
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/Thor_1983_327_19.jpg
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/Thor_1983_327_20.jpg

It is flat-out stated that space [and time] aren't the same in the Void [as if this wasn't ridiculously obvious anyway - when Thor fishes the goddamn Serpent in a boat using a bull from its supposed Earth-sized proportions]:

In the Void [as in the New Gods world] the normal limits and proportions of time/space don't apply. That's why, eventough the Serpent was small enough for Thor to stand face-to-face with him, and get fished out with a bull, he was capable of encoiling the Earth, and crushing it with his etheral form [as seen in the normal space/time] from the Void.
It's a non-feat.
This feat has been one of the most baffling, well kept lies in the history of KMC.

Your statement that "the normal limits and proportions of time/space don't apply" is wrong, unless you plan on running a campaign in this forum that will retroactively negate all feats that have taken place in the void between Asgard and Midgard since these titles began.
Good luck. I'll meet ya there.
The story is written to be a statement of Thor's strength, which is why Thor even comments on it as he lifts the serpent.
And, of course, there is the panel I posted that actually shows the very Earth being effected from across dimensional borders.
From the approach Thor takes, through Asgard, Earth becomes the "ethereal" and the serpent is "real". This is why Thor is there, unless you have a good theory about Thor becoming a strictly spiritual/ethereal entity while outside of the 616. If you do, we would all love to hear it. But, you see, you can't. And, that is because, from the very beginning of the title, not only has it been pumped that it is a SOLID reality, but compared to the 616, it is 3 TIMES AS SOLID.
Everything in the realm has 3 times the density of the "real" world. And, the Midgard Serpent is of the Asgardian Realm. It is NEVER portrayed as being a spiritual entity. As a matter of fact, it has been hinted at that the part being seen in Midgard is the tip of the ice berg, with the remaining size of the creature extending into the dimension of Asgard.
And, it doesn't even matter if they were in the Mojoverse, the serpent's characteristics are it's characteristics. You can't DECIDE to change it's profile depending on where it is located, unless you can actually prove that where it is, can effect what it is.
Luckily you don't have to do that, because we know where it is. And, we also know that mass and density is 3 times that of the 616.
And, the serpent has been show to have the ability to hold any size and shape that it wants. It even disguised itself as Fin Fang Foom once, until it "unzipped" itself and sprang to it's full size.
That is the nature of the character. Unless you decide the the Midgard Serpent is less "real" than all of the other mystical characters in the Marvel U, it's just the way it is.

THIS is the character. THIS is what it is and THIS is what it can do, etc.
It is no more ludicrous that the machine that Superman is hooked up to and the feat being described! Are you frigging kidding me? 😆

"Um, here Superman... We put 16 Black Holes in this paper bag and we want to see how long you can lift it, while holding this Brown Dwarf between your butt cheeks."

I just use the numbers and stats that Marvel gave me.

Incidentally, if Phil's argument to throw out so many story points, scans and on-panel statements is successful, due to the extra-dimensional properties of where the conflict takes place, I can already think of a half dozen threads where I will be using it next. 😄

Originally posted by Horrificus
The Midgard Serpent was "real" in the realm of Asgard.

Your statement that "the normal limits and proportions of time/space don't apply" is wrong, unless you plan on running a campaign in this forum that will retroactively negate all feats that have taken place in the void between Asgard and Midgard since these titles began.
Good luck. I'll meet ya there.
The story is written to be a statement of Thor's strength, which is why Thor even comments on it as he lifts the serpent.
And, of course, there is the panel I posted that actually shows the very Earth being effected from across dimensional borders.
From the approach Thor takes, through Asgard, Earth becomes the "ethereal" and the serpent is "real". This is why Thor is there, unless you have a good theory about Thor becoming a strictly spiritual/ethereal entity while outside of the 616. If you do, we would all love to hear it. But, you see, you can't. And, that is because, from the very beginning of the title, not only has it been pumped that it is a SOLID reality, but compared to the 616, it is 3 TIMES AS SOLID.
Everything in the realm has 3 times the density of the "real" world. And, the Midgard Serpent is of the Asgardian Realm. It is NEVER portrayed as being a spiritual entity. As a matter of fact, it has been hinted at that the part being seen in Midgard is the tip of the ice berg, with the remaining size of the creature extending into the dimension of Asgard.
And, it doesn't even matter if they were in the Mojoverse, the serpent's characteristics are it's characteristics. You can't DECIDE to change it's profile depending on where it is located, unless you can actually prove that where it is, can effect what it is.
Luckily you don't have to do that, because we know where it is. And, we also know that mass and density is 3 times that of the 616.
And, the serpent has been show to have the ability to hold any size and shape that it wants. It even disguised itself as Fin Fang Foom once, until it "unzipped" itself and sprang to it's full size.
That is the nature of the character. Unless you decide the the Midgard Serpent is less "real" than all of the other mystical characters in the Marvel U, it's just the way it is.

THIS is the character. THIS is what it is and THIS is what it can do, etc.
It is no more ludicrous that the machine that Superman is hooked up to and the feat being described! Are you frigging kidding me? 😆

"Um, here Superman... We put 16 Black Holes in this paper bag and we want to see how long you can lift it, while holding this Brown Dwarf between your butt cheeks."

I just use the numbers and stats that Marvel gave me.

Incidentally, if Phil's argument to throw out so many story points, scans and on-panel statements is successful, due to the extra-dimensional properties of where the conflict takes place, I can already think of a half dozen threads where I will be using it next. 😄

I did see that Superman has a Brown Dwarf between his butt cheeks.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Meltdown begins. Seriously that didn't even made any sense.

Thor had to travel through Asgard to confront the Serpent in person.

The serpent that Thor confronts is not ethereal. It is the creature itself.

I make the point that, just because a confrontation takes place in Asgard or any other dimension, it doesn't simply get disregarded, unless there are specific reasons why it should be. In this case, it is a valid confrontation taking place in an environment where there have been other comic book confrontations in the past, and none of them have been thrown out either.

The serpent has characteristics and attributes like any other character. It isn't portrayed as a dream entity or anything.

Then, I outline those characteristics a bit, including it's ability to change shape, etc. Explaining why it seems to have different sizes and appearances at times.

Originally posted by Horrificus
Which part did you have a problem with? Seriously.

Originally posted by Horrificus
The Midgard Serpent was "real" in the realm of Asgard.

Your statement that "the normal limits and proportions of time/space don't apply" is wrong, unless you plan on running a campaign in this forum that will retroactively negate all feats that have taken place in the void between Asgard and Midgard since these titles began.
Good luck. I'll meet ya there.
The story is written to be a statement of Thor's strength, which is why Thor even comments on it as he lifts the serpent.
And, of course, there is the panel I posted that actually shows the very Earth being effected from across dimensional borders.
From the approach Thor takes, through Asgard, Earth becomes the "ethereal" and the serpent is "real". This is why Thor is there, unless you have a good theory about Thor becoming a strictly spiritual/ethereal entity while outside of the 616. If you do, we would all love to hear it. But, you see, you can't. And, that is because, from the very beginning of the title, not only has it been pumped that it is a SOLID reality, but compared to the 616, it is 3 TIMES AS SOLID.
Everything in the realm has 3 times the density of the "real" world. And, the Midgard Serpent is of the Asgardian Realm. It is NEVER portrayed as being a spiritual entity. As a matter of fact, it has been hinted at that the part being seen in Midgard is the tip of the ice berg, with the remaining size of the creature extending into the dimension of Asgard.
And, it doesn't even matter if they were in the Mojoverse, the serpent's characteristics are it's characteristics. You can't DECIDE to change it's profile depending on where it is located, unless you can actually prove that where it is, can effect what it is.
Luckily you don't have to do that, because we know where it is. And, we also know that mass and density is 3 times that of the 616.
And, the serpent has been show to have the ability to hold any size and shape that it wants. It even disguised itself as Fin Fang Foom once, until it "unzipped" itself and sprang to it's full size.
That is the nature of the character. Unless you decide the the Midgard Serpent is less "real" than all of the other mystical characters in the Marvel U, it's just the way it is.

THIS is the character. THIS is what it is and THIS is what it can do, etc.
It is no more ludicrous that the machine that Superman is hooked up to and the feat being described! Are you frigging kidding me? 😆

"Um, here Superman... We put 16 Black Holes in this paper bag and we want to see how long you can lift it, while holding this Brown Dwarf between your butt cheeks."

I just use the numbers and stats that Marvel gave me.

Incidentally, if Phil's argument to throw out so many story points, scans and on-panel statements is successful, due to the extra-dimensional properties of where the conflict takes place, I can already think of a half dozen threads where I will be using it next. 😄

Now we're getting somewhere. Good response.

Originally posted by dmills
Now we're getting somewhere. Good response.

Originally posted by abhilegend
The entire post which was basically gibberish.

Seriously though abhi, I think I can clear this up.

The things we are discussing are called "comic books". 😄

Originally posted by Horrificus
Thank you.

But, if abhi isn't onboard, it all means nothing. 🙄

Seriously though abhi, I think I can clear this up.

The things we are discussing are called "comic books". 😄

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, good thing you cleared this up. Although "you busted this feat up so I would do the same for your character" is a pretty good sign of desperation. Your entire post was nothing but "How can this be when blah, blah, blah". We saw that the serpent only coiled earth from the void and not from the real universe and its actual size wasn't even city size. You can shout "LOLZ, three times denser" shit all day long, it wouldn't change the fact that this feat is totally bogus and nowhere near planetary level thorbags claimed it to be.

Originally posted by zopzop
To add fuel to this fire, when the serpent appeared again in the 90s, on Earth (not in the void or other dimension), it was nowhere near planetary size. I think the narrator said it "stretched for miles". That's about it.

Carver, shut up. If you have anything to add, add it. Otherwise, like I said, cut it out. That whole "melting heralds" thing is bullshit, as we know it wouldn't melt Superman, or Thor, or Surfer etc ad nauseum.

Abhi, not ALL pre-crisis stories are canon. If something is referenced, then that story happened. It's not a blanket allowance.

Nice post Philo.

Stop whining, Starscream.