Originally posted by cdtm
Thor implied he was as worthy as anyone who lifted it in the past, and that being worthy just gives someone access to those special circumstances that allow them to lift it.. He specifically said past worthies overcame the enchantment, due to some need.Which doesn't make sense since Bill stole it without any special circumstances, but that's definitely how Thor's phrasing sounded..
More like special circumstances give access to being worthy. Since without themhe wasn't.
Bill's just be straight up worthy lol. None of jt makes much sense I guess.
Originally posted by Damborgson
More like special circumstances give access to being worthy. Since without themhe wasn't.Bill's just be straight up worthy lol. None of jt makes much sense I guess.
Thor flat out stated that Superman was "allowed to overcome" the enchantment, if Superman was actually worthy he wouldn't have needed to overcome the enchantment.
Originally posted by Silent Master
Thor flat out stated that Superman was "allowed to overcome" the enchantment, if Superman was actually worthy he wouldn't have needed to overcome the enchantment.
He also said the hammer was in good hands. 😉
But the key phrase is referencing past worthy' s overcoming the enchantment, as there' s no examples of unworthies overcoming the enchantment if they weren't' worthy.
It sounds like Busiek tried retconning that the enchantment normally lets Thor only lift it,and anytime someone else did counts as a special exception. And yes, that does go against Bill lifting it.
Originally posted by cdtmThe only conflict is that is the only instance of someone lifting it during a crisis and being unable to lift it outside of battle. That and it is non-canon. Basically, Thor's non-canon character statement is irrelevant to the actual on-panel feats pertaining to Mjolnir's worthiness enchantment canon feats.
And yet, Thor claimed in dire need, past worthies did as well.See the conflict?
Originally posted by armedforbattleCap was toting Mjolnir around during Thor's funeral on his belt. Masterson was carrying it around all the time outside of crises. Beta Ray Bill carried it around after he had already won the fight against Thor.
was it twice? Sorry!
But what I was getting at is he hasn't been shown to be able to lift it at any given time.
http://forums.comicbookresources.com/archive/index.php/t-151982.html
Down the page, Busiek tells his thought process.
Basically, he seems to believe in "sliding scale worthiness", where someone could be worthy in one case, and unworthy in another.
Who can lift Thor's hammer ... This could involve strength or having the right qualities to lift the hammer.The noncanon Surfer who defeated Mangog by being so pure and noble in spirit, Mangog dwindled away from contact with Surfer: that Surfer should be able to lift it...
...and frankly, why shouldn't canon Surfer be able to lift it? Because he has the "blood of billions of beings on his hands"? What about the sacrifice he made to save Zenn-La? Plus, Surfer has shown so much selflessness and nobility of spirit since then; heck, at least as much as Thor, who likes to fight, whereas Surfer goes out of his way to avoid one.
It's like in the (yes, noncanon) Brothers arc from the 90s: how come warrior Wonder Woman was deemed "worthy," but from JLA/Avengers, Superman (another peacemonger at heart) was "allowed" to lift it (ie, his worthiness was insufficient).
H'mm...
Character convention aside, it seems like Mjolnir's enchantment likes some hearty testosterone in those deemed "worthy." Well, it is a warhammer, after all.
Originally posted by cdtmNo offense to Kurt Busiek, but that's retarded.
As I figure it, were Wonder Woman or Cap trying to lift it to hand it back to Thor when there's no crisis at hand, they wouldn't manage it either.kdb
Cap handed Mjolnir to Thor the first time he lifted it after they had beaten Grog's forces. And that occurred years before JLA/Avengers.
EDIT: No, wait. I'm getting the 2nd time mixed up with the 1st time. Also BRB.
Originally posted by ODG
No offense to Kurt Busiek, but that's retarded.Cap handed Mjolnir to Thor the first time he lifted it after they had beaten Grog's forces. And that occurred years before JLA/Avengers.
EDIT: No, wait. I'm getting the 2nd time mixed up with the 1st time. Also BRB.
Yeah, he may be a great writer, but not when it comes to Thor.
Originally posted by Silent Master
He wrote Superman needing to be allowed to lift it, he never wrote anyone else needing help.
Thor had nothing to do with it, though. It' s not like he commanded the hammer to allow itself to be lifted. Busieks opinion makes it clear the hammer decides both who can lift it, and when.
I'm convinced that each writer has their own opinion of whose worthy. Maybe Stan Lee thinks Superman is worthy while Kurt B doesn't think so. There is no real formula really since this is all fictional, fluctuate on writer's opinion, and contradictions can be found for any set of rules.
This list of requirements is based off a my opinion of worthiness
1. Noble/trustworthy
2. Selfless
3. Brave
4. Good hearted
Originally posted by cdtm
Thor had nothing to do with it, though. It' s not like he commanded the hammer to allow itself to be lifted. Busieks opinion makes it clear the hammer decides both who can lift it, and when.
What he made clear was that Superman had to be allowed to overcome the enchantment and that by himself, he's not worthy.