Shao Lao (k'un lun dragon) vs Midgard Serpent

shao lao is a strange beast. seems it defeated the phoenix at some point in the past, yet....danny and others have defeated it to obtain the IF. any thoughts on how to resolve this apparent discrepancy (maybe the defeat by danny wasn't a tradiational defeat?) or on how this match would go?

seems i could have put the dragon against anyone from daredevil to galactus.....

Originally posted by leonidas
shao lao is a strange beast. seems it defeated the phoenix at some point in the past, yet....danny and others have defeated it to obtain the IF. any thoughts on how to resolve this apparent discrepancy (maybe the defeat by danny wasn't a tradiational defeat?) or on how this match would go?

seems i could have put the dragon against anyone from daredevil to galactus.....

Midgard Serpent couldn't beat Thor. 1/5 of the PF in the hands of incompetent and unworthy hosts, HUMILIATED Thor repeatedly. Shao Loa beat the FULL Phoenix Force.

Ergo :
Shao Lao >>>>FULL PF>>>>>>>>>>>1/5 PF unworthy and unchosen hosts>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thor>Midgard Serpent. Shao Lao wins! FATALITY! 😘

Originally posted by leonidas
shao lao is a strange beast. seems it defeated the phoenix at some point in the past, yet....danny and others have defeated it to obtain the IF. any thoughts on how to resolve this apparent discrepancy (maybe the defeat by danny wasn't a tradiational defeat?) or on how this match would go?

seems i could have put the dragon against anyone from daredevil to galactus.....

Any existence.

Originally posted by leonidas
shao lao is a strange beast. seems it defeated the phoenix at some point in the past, yet....danny and others have defeated it to obtain the IF. any thoughts on how to resolve this apparent discrepancy (maybe the defeat by danny wasn't a tradiational defeat?) or on how this match would go?

seems i could have put the dragon against anyone from daredevil to galactus.....

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
The dragon isn't actually an abstract but his power is actually greater than he himself is. The Iron Fists defeat him to have access to his power source which is separate from his body. So I assume that the full version is simply stronger than it separate, which explains how Danny and them get an amp from something that they can as normal humans. .

This also explains why Iron Fist and others that draw power from Shao Lao have better on panel fights and feats than Phoenix Force Avatars such as Rachel, Jean Grey, Giraud, the P5, etc...

Shao Lao never beat the Phoenix Force. The immature reincarnation was one shot by Scott with 1/2 of the PF. There's no way to guage the power of a full grown Shao Lao dragon. I suppose it could beat the Midgard Serpent.

Originally posted by zopzop
👆

This also explains why Iron Fist and others that draw power from Shao Lao have better on panel fights and feats than Phoenix Force Avatars such as Rachel, Jean Grey, Giraud, the P5, etc...

wait, huh? not sure i understood this correctly. did you just say IF has BETTER on panel feats than pf users.....? maybe i misunderstood or you mistyped cuz that makes no sense.

Originally posted by leonidas
wait, huh? not sure i understood this correctly. did you just say IF has BETTER on panel feats than pf users.....? maybe i misunderstood or you mistyped cuz that makes no sense.

AvX destroyed the PF (in more ways than one). How the fxxk is a magic dragon that empowers the likes of IF even in the same league as the PF or it's hosts?

Necrom, with a sliver of the PF, destroyed an entire solar system just to get Rachel to hand over her measly portion of the PF. That was after he hurled the entire molten core of a planet at her, flung two MOONS at her, and ignited a gas giant into a sun.

When the PF was being forced to separate from Rachel, every star in the universe was dying out.

Dark Phoenix Jean was approaching Galactus level power (according to Reed's instruments) and that was when she admitted herself that she was weak and her power needed time to grow.

Giraud's power saved Eternity (and his teammates) and the result literally rocked the universe from Eternity convulsing in pain.

Originally posted by Sundipped
Shao Lao never beat the Phoenix Force. The immature reincarnation was one shot by Scott with 1/2 of the PF. There's no way to guage the power of a full grown Shao Lao dragon. I suppose it could beat the Midgard Serpent.

meh, maybe. this scan would indicate differently:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/824/avx10015016.jpg/

the 'legend' is one i think we were intended to believe. doesn't really make sense to me and was one of the only parts of avx i did NOT like.

the young dragon DID harm scott, which was still sorta impressive to me. not sure where the full powered dragon would rank, nor was i sure how to gauge its level of power.

Originally posted by leonidas
meh, maybe. this scan would indicate differently:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/824/avx10015016.jpg/

the 'legend' is one i think we were intended to believe. doesn't really make sense to me and was one of the only parts of avx i did NOT like.

the young dragon DID harm scott, which was still sorta impressive to me. not sure where the full powered dragon would rank, nor was i sure how to gauge its level of power.

Originally posted by zopzop
I was being sarcastic 😛

why i otta..... 😂 (whew)

AvX destroyed the PF (in m0re ways than one). How the fxxk is a magic dragon that empowers the likes of IF even in the same league as the PF or it's hosts?

Necrom, with a sliver of the PF, destroyed an entire solar system just to get Rachel to hand over her measly portion of the PF. That was after he hurled the entire molten core of a planet at her, flung two MOONS at her, and ignited a gas giant into a sun.

When the PF was being forced to separate from Rachel, every star in the universe was dying out.

Dark Phoenix Jean was approaching Galactus level power (according to Reed's instruments) and that was when she admitted herself that she was weak and her power needed time to grow.

Giraud's power saved Eternity (and his teammates) and the result literally rocked the universe from Eternity convulsing in pain. [/B]

cool. i disagree it destroyed the pf (and i actually really enjoyed the avx arc...) though. if anything, it was shown to be the anti-thesis of wanda's chaos magic, and it was effortlessly one-shotting worlds. pf wielder feats weren't great but the wielders kinda sucked. i liked what scott seemed to see himself capable of in his mind near the end but he didn't let himself get to that point. it even seemed to me that the cyttorak interaction gave the pf respect (though peter with just 1/5 wasn't powerful to beat cyttorak in his realm.)

i DO agree with your main point though--some mystic dragon shouldn't have been able to beat the full force--IF that is what happened. seemed more like the dragon helped the wielder CONTROL the power, somewhat. sorta..... shrug

like i said, i liked the arc a lot--but i did NOT like the kun lun angle.

Originally posted by leonidas
meh, maybe. this scan would indicate differently:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/824/avx10015016.jpg/

the 'legend' is one i think we were intended to believe. doesn't really make sense to me and was one of the only parts of avx i did NOT like.

the young dragon DID harm scott, which was still sorta impressive to me. not sure where the full powered dragon would rank, nor was i sure how to gauge its level of power.

1/5 of the PF repeatedly humiliated Thor and the Avengers. Puffy hurt Scott with 1/2 of the PF but he wound up one shotting it. Could he have done that with "only" 1/5 of the PF? Adult Puff beat the full PF. A cursed and crippled Thor beat the Midgard Serpent.

So :
Adult Puff>>>>>Full PF>>>>>1/2 PF>>>>Puffy>>>>1/5 of the PF>>>>>Healthy Thor>Crippled Thor>Midgard Serpent.

FP Shao Lao wins! I wonder if IF could beat the Midgard Serpent. I mean he beat Shao Lao! The more you think about it, the more it doesn't make any sense.

Marvel is a joke.

Originally posted by Philosophía
And Sentry stalemated Galactus.

that's a fair comparison i guess. i think the arc, and the story that danny told, was meant to lead us to accept the idea that the dragon beat it.

i'm MORE than willing to side with you on this though and call either PIS or simply accept it WAS just a legend and didn't happen. i gather you hated the arc as well?

Originally posted by zopzop

FP Shao Lao wins! I wonder if IF could beat the Midgard Serpent. I mean he beat Shao Lao! The more you think about it, the more it doesn't make any sense.

Marvel is a joke.

lol

you'll know by now i do sorta agree with you. i seem able to dismiss things a little easier though. not EVERYTHING needs to fit perfectly with continuity. and it WAS referenced as a legend, so marvel left themselves an out in that regard.

as for IF vs jormungand? the way marvel has pushed danny the last couple years, i wouldn't doubt it. he's turning into thanos--someone i used to love, but began to dislike when he simply kept getting more and more popular and powerful. 🙁

Originally posted by leonidas
lol

you'll know by now i do sorta agree with you. i seem able to dismiss things a little easier though. not EVERYTHING needs to fit perfectly with continuity. and it WAS referenced as a legend, so marvel left themselves an out in that regard.

as for IF vs jormungand? the way marvel has pushed danny the last couple years, i wouldn't doubt it. he's turning into thanos--someone i used to love, but began to dislike when he simply kept getting more and more popular and powerful. 🙁

Thanos is what he is, a low trans that went to high trans over the course of 30+ years.

IF is PIS incarnate. 😘

ha! i like the danny of old, and the danny from ultimate spiderman! 😄

Originally posted by leonidas
that's a fair comparison i guess. i think the arc, and the story that danny told, was meant to lead us to accept the idea that the dragon beat it.

i'm MORE than willing to side with you on this though and call either PIS or simply accept it WAS just a legend and didn't happen. i gather you hated the arc as well?

Originally posted by leonidas
meh, maybe. this scan would indicate differently:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/824/avx10015016.jpg/

the 'legend' is one i think we were intended to believe. doesn't really make sense to me and was one of the only parts of avx i did NOT like.

the young dragon DID harm scott, which was still sorta impressive to me. not sure where the full powered dragon would rank, nor was i sure how to gauge its level of power.

The dragon was down and could no longer fight after that optic blast sooooo. ..........yeah it was one shot.

The legend was stupid. A complete waste of time.

The dragon did hurt him but Scott was highly resistant to (in fact he flat out no sold) the same blast coming from Hope after she copied the dragons powers.

didn't the force absorbed the dragon

and jormangund should win

Originally posted by zopzop
OMG don't put Thanos and IF in the same sentence! Thanos is nowhere near that bad in terms of character development or power levels.

Thanos is what he is, a low trans that went to high trans over the course of 30+ years.

IF is PIS incarnate. 😘

Danny' s power bump is a lot less then the board hype lets on. 😛

His power scaled up pretty sharply when Priest got hold of him in the 1980' s, going from not even able to KO Cage under Claremont, to knocking him cold and being careful not to take his head off, along with taking down someone Thor struggled with, and he also introduced the red suited berserk Danny.

After that, he' s been fairly consistent, hovering around being able to deck a mid to high end brick and send him flying, to struggleing with top tier martial artists.