The better villain: Voldemort or Palpatine ?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Using evidence from the film alone, it's pretty obvious that he was leading Anakin into an elaborate trap. He telepathically lures Anakin from the Council Chambers (check the scene where he and Padme are exchanging teary-eyed glances from across the cityscape) and loses right as he walks through the front door.

Which would also explain how he's able to stalemate the more powerful Yoda later in the duel.

I also think he's more powerful than Yoda. Yoda seems far more agile and one could argue more formidable but I wouldn't. The point is he tries to leave and avoid a confrontation with Yoda and is forced into one all the same. The guy rules a galaxy at this point he should never have left himself this unguarded.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Part of being a great villain is instilling fear in the opposition. Yes, they are fearful of the dark side just not Palpatine. They went right at him and Windu broke him. Begging for your life doesn't really instill fear from your opponent.

Voldemort had the Minister of defense shitting his pants at the mere sight of him.

Accept defeat gratefully for once in your life, robbie.

That is incorrect actually. Palpatine was the was the physical embodiment of the Darkside at the time. Mace took 3 other Jedi masters with him once it became clear who the Sith Lord was, cos he knew better and he knew what was at stake. You don't have to cower in free to be fearful. That aside.

You're still stuck on "can beat people up" as being the apex for what makes a great villain, simply juggling around and trying to reword it won't change that. Your loss, pal. There's so much more to great villains than big muscles and such.

Originally posted by Robtard
That is incorrect actually. Palpatine was the was the physical embodiment of the Darkside at the time. Mace took 3 other Jedi masters with him once it became clear who the Sith Lord was, cos he knew better and he knew what was at stake. You don't have to cower in free to be fearful. That aside.

You're still stuck on "can beat people up" as being the apex for what makes a great villain, simply juggling around and trying to reword it won't change that. Your loss, pal.

No, I am stuck on instilling great fear which is what villains generally do. Palpatine was more afraid of the jedi than they were of him. Voldemort owned the wizarding world.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That still doesn't 'change the fact Windu could have killed him prior to Anakin intervening.

That's not a fact at all, bro.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I also think he's more powerful than Yoda. Yoda seems far more agile and one could argue more formidable but I wouldn't. The point is he tries to leave and avoid a confrontation with Yoda and is forced into one all the same. The guy rules a galaxy at this point he should never have left himself this unguarded.

...Really? A moment of lax security consigns Sidious to the shallow end of the villain pool? Well it's not like Voldemort ever committed a tactical error ever. haermm

Originally posted by quanchi112
Palpatine used the dark side he wasn't the dark side given form. Chill out, nerd.

No, I am stuck on instilling great fear which is what villains generally do. Palpatine was more afraid of the jedi than they were of him. Voldemort owned the wizarding world.

Derp. That aside.

That's like the 3rd or 4th time [here] you're trying to reword your "can beat people up" as being the summit of what makes a great villain. It's still your loss.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, I am stuck on instilling great fear which is what villains generally do. Palpatine was more afraid of the jedi than they were of him. Voldemort owned the wizarding world.

So what makes a villain great is their power rather than their motivations, character, and depth?

😬

Anyway, based solely on movies I would say Palpatine is the better villain.

But with the books, Voldemort takes the cake.

Originally posted by ares834
But with the books, Voldemort takes the cake.

Voldemort's gross stupidity in the books precludes that, but whatevz.

What did he do that was incredibly stupid?

Anyway, I love his back-story from the books that is, sadly, only alluded to in the movies.

Originally posted by ares834
What did he do that was incredibly stupid?

Gloat and not kill Harry in The Chamber of Secrets & The Goblet of Fire, his retarded pursuit of the Elder Wand, his careless disregard of his Horcruxes, his lax use of Occulumency in Hallows, enabling Harry to read his mind, his dismissing Bellatrix when she tried to warn him of Dumbledore's approach in The Order of the Phoenix, etc. Each of them colossal and tremendous mistakes that caused tremendous blowback.

Originally posted by ares834
Anyway, I love his back-story from the books that is sadly only alluded to in the movies.

Yeah, good stuff.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
That's not a fact at all, bro.

...Really? A moment of lax security consigns Sidious to the shallow end of the villain pool? Well it's not like Voldemort ever committed a tactical error ever. haermm

The guy had an entire galaxy backing him. Voldemort had a few hundred wizards give or take and some giants at his disposal.

Voldemort never really dropped the ball outside his obsession with Harry. That was it. Palpatine's errors were unforgivable. The manner in which he died catching him by surprise was awful.

Originally posted by Robtard
Derp. That aside.

That's like the 3rd or 4th time [here] you're trying to reword your "can beat people up" as being the summit of what makes a great villain. It's still your loss.

Voldemort's pivotal moments weren't made possible by sheer luck such as Palpatine.

Originally posted by ares834
So what makes a villain great is their power rather than their motivations, character, and depth?

😬

Anyway, based solely on movies I would say Palpatine is the better villain.

But with the books, Voldemort takes the cake.

I also think Voldemort was greater based on his competition or his rival(Dumbledore) being far better than anything Palpatine had to deal with.

As the better Villian, I don't know, as I never saw nor read Harry Potter. However, I have to imagine i'd be difficult to beat a dude who ruled a galaxy wide empire.

Palpatine is still considered one of the greatest Sith Lords ever. Up there with the likes of Darth Revan, Darth Bane, Emperor Vitiate, and Darth Krayt.

For years his Force Influence in the Dark Side was so all encompassing that Yoda and Windu, without a doubt the most powerful Jedi of the time were unable to see any move he made. And if you want to talk about powerful, he could create Force Hyperstorms in space so powerful they decimated entire fleets in moments. Fleets full of Star Destroyer class vessels.

Nobody came close to figuring out the entire clone army was his idea. No one even suspected.

His control over Anakin from the moment he became his mentor of sorts was so complete, that even when Anakin knew how bad he'd messed up in following him, he continued to do it out of fear and shame because Palpatine had left no way for him to redeem himself. It took the near death of his son to break his hold on Vader.

He engineered the entire Republic/Seperatist War so he could set up that moment when all the Jedi were vulnerable. He waited years so they had absolute trust in their clone troops and would never think they'd be betrayed. And then he cut them down. He even had the leaders of the Seperatists, people who were completely loyal to him, killed by Anakin because they were aliens(he hates aliens) and he didn't want any threats.

He thought of everything, which is why he ruled for so long. He even came back several times after his death at the hands of Vader.

He's a literal galaxy wide threat, while Voldemort threatened a country. That's a biiig difference, and Palpatine was a lot more cunning than Voldemort, who just got a big following because he was strong and their were racists in the wizard community who thought his ways were the right ways. He was brute strength to Palpatine's Cunning. And it's obvious who did better. Voldemort never ruled anything, people were scared of him, so what? Palpatine ruled the entire Galaxy for decades and had the entire galaxy in fear, especially every race that wasn't human or some form of really similar humanoid.

Palpatine had fine apprentices in Vader, Tyranus, and Maul.

Riddle had Quirrell.

He also had Mara Jade as his hand, and her effectiveness was legendary.

Originally posted by KingD19
Palpatine is still considered one of the greatest Sith Lords ever. Up there with the likes of Darth Revan, Darth Bane, Emperor Vitiate, and Darth Krayt.

For years his Force Influence in the Dark Side was so all encompassing that Yoda and Windu, without a doubt the most powerful Jedi of the time were unable to see any move he made. And if you want to talk about powerful, he could create Force Hyperstorms in space so powerful they decimated entire fleets in moments. Fleets full of Star Destroyer class vessels.

Nobody came close to figuring out the entire clone army was his idea. No one even suspected.

His control over Anakin from the moment he became his mentor of sorts was so complete, that even when Anakin knew how bad he'd messed up in following him, he continued to do it out of fear and shame because Palpatine had left no way for him to redeem himself. It took the near death of his son to break his hold on Vader.

He engineered the entire Republic/Seperatist War so he could set up that moment when all the Jedi were vulnerable. He waited years so they had absolute trust in their clone troops and would never think they'd be betrayed. And then he cut them down. He even had the leaders of the Seperatists, people who were completely loyal to him, killed by Anakin because they were aliens(he hates aliens) and he didn't want any threats.

He thought of everything, which is why he ruled for so long. He even came back several times after his death at the hands of Vader.

He's a literal galaxy wide threat, while Voldemort threatened a country. That's a biiig difference, and Palpatine was a lot more cunning than Voldemort, who just got a big following because he was strong and their were racists in the wizard community who thought his ways were the right ways. He was brute strength to Palpatine's Cunning. And it's obvious who did better. Voldemort never ruled anything, people were scared of him, so what? Palpatine ruled the entire Galaxy for decades and had the entire galaxy in fear, especially every race that wasn't human or some form of really similar humanoid.

It works both ways. The guy lost despite an entire galaxy backing him. That's awful since he put himself in the position to be killed. That's not intelligence it's stupidity.

EU Nonsense? The only EU things I mentioned were other Sith Lords, and him coming back to life.

You're bringing up Harry Potter book stuff, which is EU compared to the movies is it not? It's another medium where things don't happen exactly as they did in the movies and vice versa.

My points are all valid. Sidious only lost because he put Vader in a position where he could finally break free from the Dark Side programming due to the love for his son and his well-being overriding the Dark Side influence.

If anybody's a fanboy it's you with how hard you wank Voldemort's nose.

Originally posted by KingD19
EU Nonsense? The only EU things I mentioned were other Sith Lords, and him coming back to life.

You're bringing up Harry Potter book stuff, which is EU compared to the movies is it not? It's another medium where things don't happen exactly as they did in the movies and vice versa.

My points are all valid. Sidious only lost because he put Vader in a position where he could finally break free from the Dark Side programming due to the love for his son and his well-being overriding the Dark Side influence.

If anybody's a fanboy it's you with how hard you wank Voldemort's nose.

When did he create force hyperstorms in space in the movies ? Did you already forget what you posted a day or so ago ?

Sidious was beaten and horrible scarred by Windu. That's not intelligence that's called submission. What' even funnier is Palpatine chose to out himself setting himself up for that scene.

Palpatine is good at sneaking around in the shadows because let's face it he got owned in a battle and tried running from Yoda.

Voldemort is clearly his superior. Palpatine would probably try to flee if the two met.

Voldemort

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Gloat and not kill Harry in The Chamber of Secrets & The Goblet of Fire,

These are big mistakes. But Palpatine does the same shit.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
his retarded pursuit of the Elder Wand,

I really don't see this as a mistake. After all, using any other wand against Harry would have been ineffective; he needed the best.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
his careless disregard of his Horcruxes,

What do you mean by this? The majority of his Horcruxes were very well guarded.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
his lax use of Occulumency in Hallows, enabling Harry to read his mind,

Yes, this was a mistake. However, I would argue it was due not to stupidity but rather lack of ability.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
his dismissing Bellatrix when she tried to warn him of Dumbledore's approach in The Order of the Phoenix,

Don't remember this happening, but it defiantly sounds like a big mistake.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Each of them colossal and tremendous mistakes that caused tremendous blowback.

Fair enough. However, not of them seem to be incredibly stupid to me.