The Time-Warped Battles Pt. 1

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
[B]This information;

"The bloodthirsty Darth Bandon wastes no time in building a double-bladed Sith lightsaber resembling that of Exar Kun, using it to impale a score of his former Jedi allies." (Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide)

and this information;

"Darth Bandon proved himself to be an excellent choice. Many Jedi fell beneath the blade of his lightsaber." (Databank)

- suggests that Bandon was a capable warrior; skilled in the arts of lightsaber combat.[/B]

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
[B]This information;

"Unleashing his cruelty within the Sith hierarchy, he immediately sparks interest from Darth Malak." (Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide)

and this information;

"His great strength in the Force, his natural cruelty and his absolute ruthlessness in his quest for power soon set him apart from his fellow students, and drew the calculating eye of Lord Malak himself." (Databank)

and this information;

"Growing arrogant, Bandon inevitably sets his sights on Malak's mantle." (Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide)

- suggests that Bandon was strong in the Force.

------

No rocket science here. [/B]

We have no idea how formidable those Jedi were. He could have killed the cream of the crop, or the spoiled curds. Remember that one Jedi at the beginning of KotOR? The one that just stood there and was taken down by a piece of bursting wall? Not exactly the prime combatants that rack up renown when you kill them.

Still, if you fight a lot, not all of them are going to be weak, unless you either get very lucky or are able to specifically pick the weak, and there's no sign of either. And even the weak can get lucky if he wasn't *that* strong.

Simple chance indicates he should be pretty strong.

Oh absolutely. But he's so underspecified that I'm loathe to consider him a meaningful candidate in any match-up. He has no detailed combative feats to his name, other than killing Trask Ulgo, dying, and being a head in a jar. Honestly, Johun Othone's abilities are more explored.

Originally posted by Q99
Still, if you fight a lot, not all of them are going to be weak, unless you either get very lucky or are able to specifically pick the weak, and there's no sign of either. And even the weak can get lucky if he wasn't *that* strong.

Simple chance indicates he should be pretty strong.

That sounds like lazy writing.

Yea, there is some vagueness there.

It's not like we even know the specifics of some of his weak Jedi killing. I'd be more impressive if we knew, say, he had taken out a bunch at once or such. Like in Legacy, Imperial Knight Draco took down 7 rank-and-file Sith all at once while having already engaged in several combats before. Being mobbed by a half-dozen is a lot harder than a half-dozen individually, so it's pretty impressive. Did Bandon ever do something like that? Maybe, maybe not, we don't know.

Hm, do we have better feats for anyone lower in the order? It'll say something if "So-and-so did this, and they're STILL considered weaker than Bandon!".

*Edit* Oh yea, he dueled Juhani at one point with neither dying, and she was a strong Jedi who defeated her master.

Originally posted by Arhael
If you haven't noticed, truly competent Force users in each era can be counted by fingers. Numbers don't necessarily increase probability of meeting strong opponent. As example, Lost Tribe off the Sith were shown too drill combat from younghood, yet, there was almost no powerful individuals among them. Thousands Sith, yet, even Alana killed plenty of them.

I'd say 'truly powerful' rather than 'truly competent'. In general there's a large number of competent, reasonably strong masters and knights below the stand-out heroes and villains. And there's always a good deal who just don't have the talent- you need to train a lot of people to get a reasonable number of solid and a few heroes, no way to tell who'll excel or just become solid ahead of time, I guess.

In Kotor II 4 Masters get killed either by Kreia or Exile.
In CW Opress on introduction kills random Master and Padawan and that's before being trained by Dooku.

Three celebrated Masters with plenty of impressive feats are non-factor against Sidious. And so on. Even Jango Fett killed several Jedi with bare hands.

That sounds like lazy writing

Originally posted by Arhael
In Kotor II 4 Masters get killed either by Kreia or Exile.
In CW Opress on introduction kills random Master and Padawan and that's before being trained by Dooku.

Three celebrated Masters with plenty of impressive feats are non-factor against Sidious. And so on.

Personally I don't think that says the masters were weak, just how incredibly badass those few were.

I'll note how famed Jedi hunters like Opress and Aurra fight their enemies one or two at a time, mostly padawan and knights with the odd master. Taking on multiple masters at once is something only the tiny, 0.01% of force using badasses can do.

Originally posted by Arhael
Getting used to my new tablet. 🙂

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
We have no idea how formidable those Jedi were. He could have killed the cream of the crop, or the spoiled curds. Remember that one Jedi at the beginning of KotOR? The one that just stood there and was taken down by a piece of bursting wall? Not exactly the prime combatants that rack up renown when you kill them.

I understand your concern though. We are dealing with possibilities in this case; therefore logical stance would be to exercise caution. However, it would be wise to put emphasis on Bandon's relative position in comparison to his peers as member Q99 pointed out.

Bandon was talented enough to be chosen for the position of apprenticeship for the ruler by the ruler himself within the whole Sith Empire; it would be unwise to assume that Bandon wouldn't be extraordinary in capabilities. Their were other powerful and dangerous figures in this Sith Empire, serving Darth Malak; Uthar Wynn and Darth Sion among them.

The whole Sith Empire wouldn't be comprised of mooks in majority if it was capable enough to crush the Republic and it was. Thanks to Revan, this did not happen;

"They owe you," Bastila insisted. "If it weren't for you, Darth Malak would have destroyed the Republic, eliminated the Council, and all but wiped out the Jedi. They owe you everything!"

Revan didn't answer right away. What she said was true—he had stopped Darth Malak and destroyed the Star Forge. (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan)

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Yeah, that's what he was. I said "how". Cruel and ambitious and strong are just broad categorizations. If his fighting style was only average, or his intelligence and level in combat was stunted, no amount of strength or ambition is going to save him. I want to know exactly what made him such a great fighter. You know, like the kind of ways we describe in depth Anakin or Bane or Luke etc.

Bandon represents a boss fight for even Revan; therefore, it makes sense to count him as among the prominent Sith. Bandon was prominent enough to get a cult following after his death.

"Over the course of many months, Revan fed that ambition with tiny crumbs meant to draw the Sith Lord in. He spoke of his past, knowing his triumphs over Malak and other powerful individuals would feed the young Sith's desire to rise above his current station." (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan)

Originally posted by Q99
Yea, there is some vagueness there.

It's not like we even know the specifics of some of his weak Jedi killing. I'd be more impressive if we knew, say, he had taken out a bunch at once or such. Like in Legacy, Imperial Knight Draco took down 7 rank-and-file Sith all at once while having already engaged in several combats before. Being mobbed by a half-dozen is a lot harder than a half-dozen individually, so it's pretty impressive. Did Bandon ever do something like that? Maybe, maybe not, we don't know.

Hm, do we have better feats for anyone lower in the order? It'll say something if "So-and-so did this, and they're STILL considered weaker than Bandon!".

*Edit* Oh yea, he dueled Juhani at one point with neither dying, and she was a strong Jedi who defeated her master.

I'd say 'truly powerful' rather than 'truly competent'. In general there's a large number of competent, reasonably strong masters and knights below the stand-out heroes and villains. And there's always a good deal who just don't have the talent- you need to train a lot of people to get a reasonable number of solid and a few heroes, no way to tell who'll excel or just become solid ahead of time, I guess.

If this helps:

Their were other powerful and dangerous figures in this Sith Empire, serving Darth Malak; Uthar Wynn and Darth Sion among them.

SW Legend

The whole Sith Empire wouldn't be comprised of mooks in majority if it was capable enough to crush the Republic and it was.

Or the Mandalorians. The Sith Empire was made mostly of fallen Jedi from the Mandolorian war and the soldiers who went with them, plus later recruits, but there's a lot of combat vets who fought against not-inconsiderable opposition.