‘Comics need to get better at not being so … comic-y’...
From Matt Fraction in an interview with the Los Angeles Times
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‘Comics need to get better at not being so … comic-y’...
From Matt Fraction in an interview with the Los Angeles Times
V
Originally posted by -Pr-
What the holy ****. Has he not been paying attention? New 52? Marvel Now?
New 52 ended up primarily getting old readers back in, but yea. Comic sales have gone up due to these events.
"I think we as an industry fell into this pattern of not caring about new readers anymore." is a real problem, DC's got a habit of not even trying for female readers/not worrying about stuff that can turn them off, but I don't think the problem has to do with high issue numbers or being too 'comic-y'.
I think it's simply a matter of having to do stuff that appeals to different groups and then, and this is very important, sticking with it, not canning it after a single year if it doesn't do super-well (DC's Minx imprint). To get new audiences, you need to build them slowly, develop cult followings and be happy with them, and then once you have a couple small followings of multiple books going, then you can leverage that into something big. You need the foothold before you get the explosion.
Originally posted by curryman
Or maybe the industry needs to stop with the outdated sales-formats.I'm surprised no one's tried something similar to JUMP.
Jump has closed down and gone all-digital in the US.
There have been some attempts at anthology, they just don't normally last too long.
Comics are the healthiest sector in the magazine business, which has mostly sunk like a rock over the last few years where comics have slowly expanded. The TPB and digital markets both continue to expand as well.
Originally posted by Q99
Jump has closed down and gone all-digital in the US.
I think that's part of the problem, that too much of comic-book industry is centered in the US.
And that's a good move.
Originally posted by Q99
Comics are the healthiest sector in the magazine business, which has mostly sunk like a rock over the last few years where comics have slowly expanded. The TPB and digital markets both continue to expand as well.
It's the same most places that I know of. TPB sell well.
I don't see why you would bring up digital sales because that's clearly the format that I support.
Originally posted by curryman
I think that's part of the problem, that too much of comic-book industry is centered in the US.
Both Europe and Japan has comics too. Europe's just tend not to blow up big when they come over here (which I think is a shame).
So does South America, come to thing of it. It just doesn't come up much, because the demand is largely met by US comics.
It's the same most places that I know of. TPB sell well.I don't see why you would bring up digital sales because that's clearly the format that I support.
It was a general comment- the comics medium isn't doing badly.
The traditional floppies are doing well (literally twice their low-point in the 90s after the big crash), and then you've got these two other growth areas. But to a large extent, digital and TPB are just bonuses- the floppies are still the cornerstone of business, and that's not a mistake, they are in fact doing well.
Originally posted by Q99
The traditional floppies are doing well (literally twice their low-point in the 90s after the big crash), and then you've got these two other growth areas. But to a large extent, digital and TPB are just bonuses- the floppies are still the cornerstone of business, and that's not a mistake, they are in fact doing well.
Doing well compared to when? The 90s?
2012 had a little boost thanks to the movies, but 11 and 10 were not doing particularly well.
And you're not even touching the quality of the books being published. Comics themselves aren't inherently good, they need to be good comics.
Originally posted by -Pr-
It amuses me that Fraction says DC isn't trying to grab female readers, when it's consistently tried harder than Marvel (and most other companies).
I don't know man, Marvel tries to push female characters all the time. She Hulk. Red She Hulk. Ms Marvel. X-23. Spider-woman, Black Widow (did Lady Ghost rider have an ongoing for a while? I forget). They've all had solo series (most of them even got more than one crack at carrying a solo) over the last five years. It's just no one seems to be picking them up, even when they are critically accomplished like X-23 was. X-Men Legacy was pretty much a Rogue solo for years, and JitM is the Lady Sif show right now. Sure DC has a Wonder Woman and Catwoman solo running in perpetuity (and usually a Batgirl in some form or another) but Marvel is constantly testing the water with new female characters solo books... it's just that no one wants to jump in.
Originally posted by curryman
Doing well compared to when? The 90s?
Yes, literally twice as much as the low point after the 90s bubble.
Not doing as well as the bubble, but that was a stupid bubble and far less stable than now.
2012 had a little boost thanks to the movies, but 11 and 10 were not doing particularly well.
They weren't doing that badly either, '10 outperformed anything in the '95-05 period, often by a lot (and notably, was in a recession), and movies don't affect sales much at all. Like, we wish they did, but the effect is really minimal.
And you're not even touching the quality of the books being published. Comics themselves aren't inherently good, they need to be good comics.
There is plenty of good comics. Even aside from the big two, the non-big two market is expanding with hits like Saga, Walking Dead, and so on.
-Pr-
It amuses me that Fraction says DC isn't trying to grab female readers, when it's consistently tried harder than Marvel (and most other companies).
They really didn't try hard with New 52 ^^;;
Decreased number of female books, put only one female character on the main JLA, JLI didn't treat it's female characters very well, Catwoman's and Starfire's blatant fanservice are a turn-off to two potentially female-friendly characters, the fact that all Batgirls but one were erased while all Robins stayed around, etc..
Also, they had literally one female writer at launch, across 52 books. You might not remember it, but that caused enough controversy that DC publicly apologized and said they'd search out more female creators.
They've picked up some, doing World's Finest with Powergirl and Huntress, and Amethyst by a female writer (the only female writer from the aforementioned initiative apparently), but, like, we're talking it's arguable whether they're even where they were at pre-reboot, it's not exactly what one would call a 'push' for female readers.
You might not be aware of it, but DC has gotten a lot of well-deserved flak recently for it's handling of females, be it characters or fans.
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Marvel's pushing Captain Marvel (Carol Danvers), Sif (in Journey into Mystery), their team books have a much heavier female presence with several female team leaders (only female team leader in DC is on BoP), and heck, is doing an all-female X-men team by an A-list writer. Also very importantly, they aren't doing anything like the Starfire redo, the turned-up-sex on Catwoman, the Rapazons in WW, or anything else that turns off potential female readers.
Originally posted by Golgo13
DC just had a few female lead books on the top 100 for CBR. Batwoman and Wonder Woman, which are gold, IMO. Not to mention BOP, Catwoman, Batgirl (high seller), and Amythest. That's just from the top of my head. They have more female books than Marvel.
DC's female books definitely outsell Marvels, that's for sure, but Marvel tries much harder to push new female characters into the lime light.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
DC's female books definitely outsell Marvels, that's for sure, but Marvel tries much harder to push new female characters into the lime light.
I think that's because they actually have to try harder, since DC's females will automatically sell. Batgirl is a horrible book (Sorry, PR. 😛 but it will still sale. Same with Catwoman who is highly recognizable. DC still pushes some obscure female books like Amythest.
Originally posted by Golgo13
DC just had a few female lead books on the top 100 for CBR. Batwoman and Wonder Woman, which are gold, IMO. Not to mention BOP, Catwoman, Batgirl (high seller), and Amythest. That's just from the top of my head. They have more female books than Marvel.
DC has more solo female books, but less female presence in team books / female characters
And of the ones you named, Catwoman's highly sexified-towards-men, Wonder Woman had her origin reworked to be more male centric (her powers now derive from a male god rather than a goddess, her combat skills come from training from a male rather than the amazons, and her morals not coming from the Amazons either).
Heck, Amethyst, what you might think as a shoe-in for younger female readers/female readers looking for a fun book, opened up with a gang attempting to rape a side-character.
There's no effort to avoid problematic issues that put off female readers, even in female books. Only Batwoman and BoP are good in that area.
Marvel's never had too much success with female solo books, but it's solidly presented female characters are both more numerous and more solidly presented in-universe. Picking up an X-book just feels female-friendlier than DC.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I don't know man, Marvel tries to push female characters all the time. She Hulk. Red She Hulk. Ms Marvel. X-23. Spider-woman, Black Widow (did Lady Ghost rider have an ongoing for a while? I forget). They've all had solo series (most of them even got more than one crack at carrying a solo) over the last five years. It's just no one seems to be picking them up, even when they are critically accomplished like X-23 was. X-Men Legacy was pretty much a Rogue solo for years, and JitM is the Lady Sif show right now. Sure DC has a Wonder Woman and Catwoman solo running in perpetuity (and usually a Batgirl in some form or another) but Marvel is constantly testing the water with new female characters solo books... it's just that no one wants to jump in.
I'm not saying Marvel doesn't try to push female characters. I just think DC does more, and that, even if you wanted to say Marvel did as much, Fraction's comment is still way off.
Originally posted by Q99
Yes, literally twice as much as the low point after the 90s bubble.Not doing as well as the bubble, but that was a stupid bubble and far less stable than now.
They weren't doing that badly either, '10 outperformed anything in the '95-05 period, often by a lot (and notably, was in a recession), and movies don't affect sales much at all. Like, we wish they did, but the effect is really minimal.
There is plenty of good comics. Even aside from the big two, the non-big two market is expanding with hits like Saga, Walking Dead, and so on.
They really didn't try hard with New 52 ^^;;
Decreased number of female books, put only one female character on the main JLA, JLI didn't treat it's female characters very well, Catwoman's and Starfire's blatant fanservice are a turn-off to two potentially female-friendly characters, the fact that all Batgirls but one were erased while all Robins stayed around, etc..
Also, they had literally one female writer at launch, across 52 books. You might not remember it, but that caused enough controversy that DC publicly apologized and said they'd search out more female creators.
They've picked up some, doing World's Finest with Powergirl and Huntress, and Amethyst by a female writer (the only female writer from the aforementioned initiative apparently), but, like, we're talking it's arguable whether they're even where they were at pre-reboot, it's not exactly what one would call a 'push' for female readers.
You might not be aware of it, but DC has gotten a lot of well-deserved flak recently for it's handling of females, be it characters or fans.
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Marvel's pushing Captain Marvel (Carol Danvers), Sif (in Journey into Mystery), their team books have a much heavier female presence with several female team leaders (only female team leader in DC is on BoP), and heck, is doing an all-female X-men team by an A-list writer. Also very importantly, they aren't doing anything like the Starfire redo, the turned-up-sex on Catwoman, the Rapazons in WW, or anything else that turns off potential female readers.
Well New 52 was different, and DC seems to be rectifying it I think.
Originally posted by Q99
DC has more solo female books, but less female presence in team books / female charactersAnd of the ones you named, Catwoman's highly sexified-towards-men, Wonder Woman had her origin reworked to be more male centric (her powers now derive from a male god rather than a goddess, her combat skills come from training from a male rather than the amazons, and her morals not coming from the Amazons either).
Heck, Amethyst, what you might think as a shoe-in for younger female readers/female readers looking for a fun book, opened up with a gang attempting to rape a side-character.
There's no effort to avoid problematic issues that put off female readers, even in female books. Only Batwoman and BoP are good in that area.
Marvel's never had too much success with female solo books, but it's solidly presented female characters are both more numerous and more solidly presented in-universe. Picking up an X-book just feels female-friendlier than DC.
I honestly don't agree about Catwoman tbh.
As far as Wonder Woman goes, sure, she's been shifted, but I don't see how they've necessarily put off female readers.