Originally posted by Mindset
Then his reaction time is faster than 1/15 of a humans. 👆
Impossible.
You can't react much faster than your body can move. The duration of an eye blink is not much faster than the duration of a punch from start to return.
How fast can Magneto run? Certainly nowhere near as fast as Northstar or his son. His arms thus, cannot, move much faster than his legs.
Simply thinking/seeing fast enough is like putting a global slow motion mode on for a video game. Yeah, you can see shit coming easier, but you can't move any faster since your speed is still in proportion to everything else, since you're also in slow motion.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Impossible.You can't react much faster than your body can move. The duration of an eye blink is not much faster than the duration of a punch from start to return.
How fast can Magneto run? Certainly nowhere near as fast as Northstar or his son. His arms thus, cannot, move much faster than his legs.
Simply thinking/seeing fast enough is like putting a global slow motion mode on for a video game. Yeah, you can see shit coming easier, but you can't move any faster since your speed is still in proportion to everything else, since you're also in slow motion.
Originally posted by Mindset
Someone let boxers know their arms can't move faster than they can run.
*facepalm*. Try not to dumb everything down to the most base form of unqualified factors like everyone else does here, things are not a simple matter of A against B, and such C.
Also, learn to read; "His arms thus, cannot, move *much* faster than his legs."
If it takes them a 1/5 of a second to throw a punch, they can take a step forward in a comparable amount of time. Reading is fundamental.
Magneto can't even come close to outrunning a bullet with his leg speed. His arms thus cannot be fast enough to move as fast as a bullet does. If his brain was simply fast enough to see the bullet, yet he moved no faster than a fit human, then his own body would be so slow to him that he would feel slower than someone stuck in quicksand.
TLDR; No, your arms are not thousands of times faster than your legs. They move at a proportionate speed.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Do you really think that's applicable to comics though, honest q
Especially when Magneto is all mutated and shit. Probably got green pubes
Is PIS of the highest order, nothing more. The same as things like Deathstroke being able to tag a Flash--which would require him to move his arms at a good enough speed in comparison to Flash's reflexes that he can land a hit in the first place...lets say Wally was going lightspeed in that instance and his reflexes matched his speed, that would require Deathstroke's upperbody to move at least a comparable speed, elsewise he would be easily dodged as he could range anywhere from a slug to a statue in relative speed to Wally.
Muscle movement, is of course muscle, movement, and thus we'd have to accept that Deathstroke can run comparably fast in comparison to his upper-body speed.
Think about how stupid the idea is if he couldn't move all around comparably; If some time-dilation shit was going on that made lightspeed movement seem like normal human speed movement, Slade's upperbody would seem like its moving at normal human speeds, but when he suddenly tries to run, he'd be taking what, years to take a single step? lol.
It's stupid as hell. If you aren't comparably fast to a speedster in both brain speed and physical movement speed, you can't tag a speedster, unless you have some more exotic shit going for you.
I could understand if narration explained that to be specifically possible for a specific character, but Mags doesn't have that explanation going for him, he's basically in the same boat as someone like Slade who has done similar shit.
No bias here either, I'm not going to claim Thanos can react at faster than light speeds or Kratos can do something like react to lightning speeds, both of them are among my favorite characters and both of them have had those arguments for them in the past from specific scenes, and it just doesn't add up now that I think about it.
Originally posted by CosmicCometAnd what happens when characters consistently have feats that go against this real world logic?
Is PIS of the highest order, nothing more. The same as things like Deathstroke being able to tag a Flash--which would require him to move his arms at a good enough speed in comparison to Flash's reflexes that he can land a hit in the first place...lets say Wally was going lightspeed in that instance and his reflexes matched his speed, that would require Deathstroke's upperbody to move at least a comparable speed, elsewise he would be easily dodged as he could range anywhere from a slug to a statue in relative speed to Wally.Muscle movement, is of course muscle, movement, and thus we'd have to accept that Deathstroke can run comparably fast in comparison to his upper-body speed.
Think about how stupid the idea is if he couldn't move all around comparably; If some time-dilation shit was going on that made lightspeed movement seem like normal human speed movement, Slade's upperbody would seem like its moving at normal human speeds, but when he suddenly tries to run, he'd be taking what, years to take a single step? lol.
It's stupid as hell. If you aren't comparably fast to a speedster in both brain speed and physical movement speed, you can't tag a speedster, unless you have some more exotic shit going for you.
I could understand if narration explained that to be specifically possible for a specific character, but Mags doesn't have that explanation going for him, he's basically in the same boat as someone like Slade who has done similar shit.
No bias here either, I'm not going to claim Thanos can react at faster than light speeds or Kratos can do something like react to lightning speeds, both of them are among my favorite characters and both of them have had those arguments for them in the past from specific scenes, and it just doesn't add up now that I think about it.
Is it still considered pis?
If PIS constantly happens, its still PIS.
Unless there's a specific explanation involved for why its possible.
I can suspend my disbelief for a lot of things, but its not possible for me to believe you can somehow be 'fast enough' to hit someone who not only moves thousands of times faster than you, but *thinks* thousands of times faster than you too, thus making you look like you're a statue in comparison to them.
These aren't things that comic writers don't know either, they tend to know fully well the implications of a Flash character's speed, such as the relative time perception difference they have compared to slower brain characters. It's just that this shit gets ignored here and there, hence PIS.
You realize how shitty comics would be if everything in Marvel/DC followed real world logic, don't you?
Like flight, superspeed on Earth, force fields protecting you and not turning you into mush against them, characters without protective powers flying safely, normal characters flying super fast instead of running speed, super durable characters feeling things, super strength people able to do normal things, humans having the bone density to damage anything over steel, etc
Taking that into account you might as well raise a stink with how many characters actually work.
Also, this would get rid of things like Batman shitting on Flashes. Which is turrible.
Comics are shitty as is. I only read them because I really like the characters themselves, the stories not so much.
Even still, I'm just saying, forums are a PIS-less environment. You gotta admit its pretty silly to claim such things like Slade being fast enough to tag the Flash, and then have to qualify that within the same sentence by saying something that amounts to;
[insert scan] "Slade has shown the speed to tag the Flash despite being nowhere near as fast as the Flash. A great speed feat!"
It's, well, retarded.
Like you said before, you gotta suspend your disbelief.
So few things in comics make sense, hell, the only people in comics who should be able to fly are things like Iron Man. And even then, he shouldn't be able to do it well.
There's better (comic) reasons why Slade tagging Flash is pis though. I've shrugged off the human aspect entirely.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Impossible.You can't react much faster than your body can move. The duration of an eye blink is not much faster than the duration of a punch from start to return.
How fast can Magneto run? Certainly nowhere near as fast as Northstar or his son. His arms thus, cannot, move much faster than his legs.
Simply thinking/seeing fast enough is like putting a global slow motion mode on for a video game. Yeah, you can see shit coming easier, but you can't move any faster since your speed is still in proportion to everything else, since you're also in slow motion.
actually marvel telepaths can spends weeks in their heads for every second that transpires in the real world. quentin quire ha sbeen stated to create and organize thoughts at the rate of million per second and considering his tp feats during his mini, that is quite reasonable.
anyway, mags neural impulses have been measured at 1450% faster than a regular human's, but that is not the only factor involved in intercepting a blitz: trajectory anticipation, his sensorial input (mags senses electromagnetic fields, energy flows and patterns etc.) and tactical savvy have to be factored in. another possibilty, albeit a hypothetical one, is that just like he can amp his strengh and durability while channeling his powers, that reaction time of 1/15 might be just a relaxed state baseline he can surpass.
another thing you are assuming is that he need to react physcally and although that was the case with northstar, he can just activate his powers without moving a muscle, as he did with pietro. his reach via electromagnetic fields or blasts is lightspeed.
these are the relevant scans, notice his capacity to neutralize much much faster opponents is commented in both situtations
northstar during red dawn
http://s31.beta.photobucket.com/user/A_Flight4/media/X-Men113-04.jpg.html
http://s31.beta.photobucket.com/user/A_Flight4/media/X-Men113-05.jpg.html
intercepting pietro who was trying to deactivate a chamber mags was using to restore his own power from inside it (mags was at a fraction of his power levels when he took over genosha and for months after that)
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/38980/833700-magnetoquicksilver2_1_super_super.jpg
stopping pietro who was blitzing everybody during HoM (I know they were in a reality of the SW's making, this doesnt invalidate the feat int he slightest IMO)
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/224/scan00191fw.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/411/scan00205bt.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/411/scan00214fn.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/411/scan00225xo.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/218/scan00232ox.jpg/
anyway, mags neural impulses have been measured at 1450% faster than a regular human's, but that is not the only factor involved in intercepting a blitz: trajectory anticipation, his sensorial input (mags senses electromagnetic fields, energy flows and patterns etc.) and tactical savvy have to be factored in. another possibilty, albeit a hypothetical one, is that just like he can amp his strengh and durability while channeling his powers, that reaction time of 1/15 might be just a relaxed state baseline he can surpass.
This is the most important part; How fast you can perceive events and how fast you move your muscles are the only non-exotic means with which to react to an attack.
Trajectory anticipation is basically another means of saying Pre-Cog--at best--at worst its just another way of rephrasing a term I already used; perception speed, seeing as you need a good enough perception speed to even make a trajectory prediction, lest the movement is so fast that it looks *invisible* to you. Pre-Cog is absolutely useless if you aren't physically fast enough to do anything about it. Spiderman has pre-cog, which would be absolutely useless against the Flash in a forum setting.
Mentioning senses is redundant, your sight, smell, and hearing are already senses as is. Any extra-sensory functions don't help any further, just like pre-cog, if you don't at least meet the pre-requisite speed of attack to actually make use of your aids.
One thing of note, I never said I assumed Magento had to do so physically. I said myself that you can counter-attack people mentally and physically much faster than you if you have some exotic sets up to do so, such as say...durable auto-shields and sufficiently fast enough AOE attacks. Magneto has that, to a degree, depending on who he's fighting.
Just noting, that one cannot say Magneto is physically on par with Northstar's speed just because in a comic he physically was able to touch Northstar. He does not perceive time as fast as Northstar does (lest his own immensely slow body would feel like its taking like months to make simple movements for him), nor does his actual body move anywhere near as fast.
I could readily accept your possible feasibly explanation of it being a possible baseline speed that he can amp, with proof for it. As of now, its simply a dangerous theory, opening up too much of a slippery slope.
Originally posted by CosmicCometThanks for the tl;dr.
*facepalm*. Try not to dumb everything down to the most base form of unqualified factors like everyone else does here, things are not a simple matter of A against B, and such C.Also, learn to read; "His arms thus, cannot, move *much* faster than his legs."
If it takes them a 1/5 of a second to throw a punch, they can take a step forward in a comparable amount of time. Reading is fundamental.
Magneto can't even come close to outrunning a bullet with his leg speed. His arms thus cannot be fast enough to move as fast as a bullet does. If his brain was simply fast enough to see the bullet, yet he moved no faster than a fit human, then his own body would be so slow to him that he would feel slower than someone stuck in quicksand.
TLDR; No, your arms are not thousands of times faster than your legs. They move at a proportionate speed.
Your arms can move faster than your legs. 👆
Conversely, your legs can move faster than your arms. 👆
