Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Wasn't it stated that the flying fire dragons like Smaug were Melkors greatest weapons? Even more so than the Belrogs.
The dragons were used by Melkor as devestating weapons, can't recall if they were the greatest weapons. But they almost all had weaknesses. Smaug was killed by an arrow in the only place it wasn't invulnerable at. I think the Balrog in the Fellowship would take advantage of it.
In tolkiens earlier writings, the Balrogs were just creatures, twice the size of men, rode on dragons in battle. They were killable by both Men and Elves. In later writings, they were written as Maiar who became Balrogs. Or Angels who fell and became Demons.
IIRC in the Fellowship, Gandalf told everyone to run because their weapons would be useless against the Balrog. The dragons were killed multiple times in the history of middle earth, but the Maiar were immortal and were never killed unless their powers were removed like in the case of Saruman. Saruman's body was "killed" because it was really a shell, his spirit remained and should have entered the hall of mandos but was denied entry. So Balrog wins.. :-)
I am not sure Balrogs were that unkillable. Glorfindel killed one at the fall of Gondolin and Ecthelion killed Gothmog himself. Not without being killed in return however, it may be implied that it takes the sacrifive of someone like an elflord to end the corrupted maiar. As far as I know Gothmog never returned despite being immortal.
As for Gandalf and the wizards, their task was to strengthen the free people of Middle Earth. Facing Sauron directly may even be forbidden, not that he could just walk up and knock on the doors of Barad-Dur anyway.
Originally posted by Mshinu
I am not sure Balrogs were that unkillable. Glorfindel killed one at the fall of Gondolin and Ecthelion killed Gothmog himself. Not without being killed in return however, it may be implied that it takes the sacrifive of someone like an elflord to end the corrupted maiar. As far as I know Gothmog never returned despite being immortal.
That was in the first age and Tolkien wrote Balrogs were basically glorified Orcs in his earlier writings. They became Maiar in his later writings. Gothmog although lord of the balrogs wasn't written as a Maiar or have any of their attributes. Been awhile, though so i might be mistaken.
Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Wasn't it stated that the flying fire dragons like Smaug were Melkors greatest weapons? Even more so than the Belrogs.
Close. The winged dragons were called his greatest defense.
Originally posted by Diesldude
In tolkiens earlier writings, the Balrogs were just creatures, twice the size of men, rode on dragons in battle. They were killable by both Men and Elves. In later writings, they were written as Maiar who became Balrogs. Or Angels who fell and became Demons.
I can not think of a single writing where the balrogs are described as something other than a maiar. Even throughout the Silmarillion they were Maiar and were getting cut down by men and elves. Tolkien did, however, decrease their numbers.
Originally posted by Diesldude
IIRC in the Fellowship, Gandalf told everyone to run because their weapons would be useless against the Balrog. The dragons were killed multiple times in the history of middle earth, but the Maiar were immortal and were never killed unless their powers were removed like in the case of Saruman. Saruman's body was "killed" because it was really a shell, his spirit remained and should have entered the hall of mandos but was denied entry. So Balrog wins.. :-)
Wrong. Weapons proved to be useful against Balrogs and Maiar in general. They could be used to destroy a Maia's body and some maiar, like the Balrogs, would be unable to reform.
Originally posted by Diesldude
For the interest of the story? lol, I believe once he became Gandalf the White, he should have been able to defeat Sauron himself and didn't really need to go through with destroying the ring.
Eh? Gandalf straight up refutes that idea.
Originally posted by Diesldude
That was in the first age and Tolkien wrote Balrogs were basically glorified Orcs in his earlier writings. They became Maiar in his later writings. Gothmog although lord of the balrogs wasn't written as a Maiar or have any of their attributes. Been awhile, though so i might be mistaken.
I believe they are named as "fire spirits" that Melkor called to for help when Ungoliant was killing him. Certainly no weaklings considering they drove away what "Satan" himself could not handle.
But yes the ones being killed in Gondolin`s fall may be the result of earlier writings. Tolkien had I think many many drafts about this part in particular.