Thor/Captain Marvel vs Superman/Surfer

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
So you're arguing that no writer would have mystical vulnerability come into play as that wouldn't make it fair?

Loeb, Bryne, Simonson, and from what I've seen? Most that handled him right after the reboot. I can dig for names if you want.

Originally posted by abhilegend
You're not understanding me. Superman wouldn't be defeated by mystical vulnerability not that it wouldn't be in play. I've never done that. However marvel bricks have been punked by speed.

They portrayed superman being beaten by top tiers by his magic vulnerability?

Well that doesn't make much sense to me. If I see a writer having Superman owned by a vampire, I'm of the opinion that a magic charged punch from someone like Marvel etc. would wreck him.

From what I've read, yes, Superman would lose to a Top Tier imbued with magic in a straight up fight. He could win by outsmarting his opponents or using some sort of other advantage though I guess.

They just stood out to me as in their opinion, a hit from something like Mjolnir would devastate Superman due to it's mystical origins.

Superman already survived Captain Marvel's lightning when he was possessed by Eclipso, there isn't any reason to think his lightning or Mjolnir would [while it would probably hurt] one shot him.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Well that doesn't make much sense to me. If I see a writer having Superman owned by a vampire, I'm of the opinion that a magic charged punch from someone like Marvel etc. would wreck him.

From what I've read, yes, Superman would lose to a Top Tier imbued with magic in a straight up fight. He could win by outsmarting his opponents or using some sort of other advantage though I guess.

They just stood out to me as in their opinion, a hit from something like Mjolnir would devastate Superman due to it's mystical origins.

Something like this?

That was an Elder God BTW.

I don't see much outsmarting. That's not the only case he outperformed entire JLA against magical beings, it happened again in JLA: Seven Caskets and JLA: Scary Monsters.

The only two writers who said that are Byrne who co-wrote superman vs black adam and Jurgens who wrote Superman beating Blaze in her own realm. Opinions aren't much worth unless written in the comic, Byrne's opinion was that Darkseid is exact equal to Galactus. Read Hunger and tell me that with a straight face.

Originally posted by Newjak
I'm sorry, I'm not hearing you over the parts where he recited exactly what happened at the Gulag 😛

Let's see
Superman can beat either on team 1

Surfer can beat either on team 1

team 2 wins in a stomp.

Tie Ss will keep amping supes but Thor cap got that magic juice going for them Thor probably could amp marvel or use thier lighting to fck up supes

Originally posted by mighty adam
Tie Ss will keep amping supes but Thor cap got that magic juice going for them Thor probably could amp marvel or use thier lighting to fck up supes

How can it be a tie when Superman can beat either and SS can beat either?

Superman has hv, freeze breath, intangibility, etc. against CM's magic. Those advantages outweigh his magical advantage.

Superman has speed against Thor as well as freeze breath. Speed is a greater advantage than Thor's. Also the freeze breath could be used to slow Thor down a little more (making it more unfair).

SS beat's CM because CM doesn't have any ranged attacks. SS can beat CM in many different ways.

SS beats Thor because he is faster and because Thor has a bad habit of throwing the hammer leaving himself open to attack. SS has black holes blasts, phasing ability, board from behind tricks, etc.

Originally posted by h1a8
How can it be a tie when Superman can beat either and SS can beat either?

Superman has hv, freeze breath, intangibility, etc. against CM's magic. Those advantages outweigh his magical advantage.

Superman has speed against Thor as well as freeze breath. Speed is a greater advantage than Thor's. Also the freeze breath could be used to slow Thor down a little more (making it more unfair).

SS beat's CM because CM doesn't have any ranged attacks. SS can beat CM in many different ways.

SS beats Thor because he is faster and because Thor has a bad habit of throwing the hammer leaving himself open to attack. SS has black holes blasts, phasing ability, board from behind tricks, etc.

Originally posted by mighty adam
you have some solid points but marvels speed is greater then supes marvel durability is greater then Ss. Thor has the most raw power godblast, planet wide lighting stroms, etc plus he can open gates to black holes too, Thor can absorb Ss best shots then hit supes with them Ss can't absorb thors. Plus cm can beat supes flat out right but nobody on team 2 can flat out beat Thor or CM

I disagree that CM is faster than Supes
Supes has the better speed feats and reaction feats
Plus Supes knows how to use his speed more efficiently than CM (which counts more)

The Godblast would be a dumb attack by Thor. It should be only used for slow or stationary opponents. Plus it drains him after use. Superman or SS could easily avoid it and counter him nastily.

Planet wide storms are dumb to since neither Superman or SS are not world sized. A normal lightning attack>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>a lightning storm.

Yes Thor can absorb SS's blasts but he can't hit Supes with them if Supes is pummeling Thor using speed. Supes can avoid such blasts as well.

How can CM beat SM when Supes has both HV and freeze breath? The freeze breath alone would make Superman spite stomp CM. Think about it.

Superman could ace Thor 10/10 if he used his speed efficiently and well.

Originally posted by h1a8
I disagree that CM is faster than Supes
Supes has the better speed feats and reaction feats
Plus Supes knows how to use his speed more efficiently than CM (which counts more)

The Godblast would be a dumb attack by Thor. It should be only used for slow or stationary opponents. Plus it drains him after use. Superman or SS could easily avoid it and counter him nastily.

Planet wide storms are dumb to since neither Superman or SS are not world sized. A normal lightning attack>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>a lightning storm.

Yes Thor can absorb SS's blasts but he can't hit Supes with them if Supes is pummeling Thor using speed. Supes can avoid such blasts as well.

How can CM beat SM when Supes has both HV and freeze breath? The freeze breath alone would make Superman spite stomp CM. Think about it.

Superman could ace Thor 10/10 if he used his speed efficiently and well.

😂 at Billy being faster than Supes

Rage is right. End of discussion.

Billy solos and then knocks off Thor's head

Also lol at hating on Surfer when he's on the team you think wins.

Originally posted by mighty adam
Thor has showed he's not easily speedblitz
CM has magical lighting to use a a rang attack so he can keep supes out plus he is faster its been said time and again on panel. Thor can use his powers to do crazy things remember he used it to strip juggs of his shield then koed him. I believe he could amp CM etc. Plus CM has the most durability here he won't be dropped fast

I'm not referring to a speed blitz but rather just plain speed.
I never seen Thor defend against a Superman level blitz either.

CM can't use his lightning as a ranged attack. He calls upon the lightning and it comes to where he is located only.
It has never been stated in any CANON comic that CM is faster. Plus we go by feats first. If feats contradict what is being said then we use feats.

Superman has better feats period than CM (speed, durability, etc.)
Even if speed was a wash then Superman still uses his speed far more efficient than CM ever has. I never seen CM become intangible, multitask his powers, etc.
And Superman has greater durability feats than CM.

And you didn't comment about the cheap freeze breath tactic Superman can employ. Or the cheap ranged hv tactics.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That alternate timeline was erased in The Kingdom when present superman decided that he would never let it happen. Earth-2 power girl recited the main power girl's history too, including his cousin disappearing in Crisis. Doesn't means much.

Originally posted by Newjak
But it did happen and was recited in a canon comic 😎

Superman gets dropped easy.

Surfer can't handle both on his own.

Originally posted by curryman
Superman gets dropped easy.

Surfer can't handle both on his own.

Originally posted by abhilegend
To a different superman by a different captain marvel. It would be like applying what if version of characters' feat to 616 characters.

Superman got punched by Herc and nothing happened compared to hte other Superman you go knocked backwards and blood drawn.

So we know that Superman was more durable than normal Supes 😛

And I remember what happened to him when someone yelled SHAZAM 😎