Alien: Covenant

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
You're getting into artist intention now, which is a whole other can of worms. You can't prove what may or may not have been intended. All you can do is see what's there and work with it. And that's what well constructed art is supposed to do: inspire fans to get things out of it (intended or not). Clearly the film was very specifically constructed, so I'm sure much of it was intended. I'll give an example of something that I think is very interesting about the film: You have 3 very distinct decapitated heads that seem to represent some sort of Unholy Dark Trinity:

-Head Statue (Father)
-David's head (Son)
-Engineer head (Holy Spirit)

Father

Son

Holy Spirit

The head statue almost seems to represent God because it appears to be some sort of idol for worship (Fifield openly wonders that very thing). David is the Son that Weyland never had, and the Engineer who was decapitated is even shown running as a hologram as if some sort of holy spirit. I don't care whether it was intended or not, it's damn cool. I think we're going to find out more about these Engineer's rituals and "religion" (so to speak), which makes this pretty interesting.

I haven't seen him having to justify and explain it. Please link.

Sounds like it was your expectations, man. It's not really meant to be a dialogue movie. It's meant to spark dialogue amongst the audience, like a little puzzle. Hence the rubix cube...

That's horror movies for you. Expectations again. They made no mistake about it being a horror movie. Alien was a sci-fi horror movie, too.

They made it seem like you were going to get this intelligent movie about the origins of men.

So my expectations of the movie came from the movie itself and how it presented itself in the beginning.

From there on I was completely disappointing in how they took the movie and went with it.

I didn't want any of that, tbh. I just wanted a good movie about xenomorphs, or at least something connected to them. I got that, imo.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I didn't want any of that, tbh. I just wanted a good movie about xenomorphs, or at least something connected to them. I got that, imo.

😛

I will admit, besides the bad plot holes and stupid characters, it was a well made visually amazing movie.

I think people overstate the plot holes, tbh, but that's me.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I'd still like a sequel but was thoroughly disappointed with the first.

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Its funny almost everyone i know that saw prometheus thats was 15-25 loved it. And almost everyone i knew from the ages 35 and up hated it.

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
Make no mistake,I've read all your insights into Prometheus & I admire & respect your passion for this particular movie.I too have my movies that I'm blind & impartial to their shortcomings. However I'm one of many that did walk away scratching my head wondering a) Whether the movie was just badly edited OR whether Ridley & co-writer "made up the story as they went along"?
I mean watching Prometheus again just left me with more quirky observations that still made no sense to the storyline but just simply "looked good" to watch.
1) The holographic sequence of The Engineers clearly running away in panic & fright,only to be massacred in a pile.... WHY were they trying to escape & seek sanctuary in the chamber with the canisters of deadly black goo?
2) In the end of the film we see the creation of the very first "alien" that will eventually evolve to the aliens we know. YET earlier in the film, when the crew discover the chamber of goo,we clearly see a carving on the wall of an already clearly advanced Alien Queen. This clearly suggests that aliens were already an integral part of The Engineers' plans & yet the end of the movie clearly hints/suggests the creation/birth of the very 1st Alien Being.
This is how the movie just keeps stumbling & contradicting itself.

Ridley said specifically that this was not an Alien origins film. The one in this film was simply a form of xenomorph and we also got to see one of the Engineer ships that crashed on LV-426.

Originally posted by zeel
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Its funny almost everyone i know that saw prometheus thats was 15-25 loved it. And almost everyone i knew from the ages 35 and up hated it.

and the gap in the middle?

Originally posted by Ascendancy
Ridley said specifically that this was not an Alien origins film. The one in this film was simply a form of xenomorph and we also got to see one of the Engineer ships that crashed on LV-426.

You're clearly missing the point.
Yes, unfortunately Prometheus did turn out NOT to be an Alien Origins Film, much to the disappointment of A LOT of people.

So once again, why a carving on the wall of an Alien Queen clearly as old as the ruins themselves....then why later give the impression of the very first Alien as a species?

Originally posted by zeel
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Its funny almost everyone i know that saw prometheus thats was 15-25 loved it. And almost everyone i knew from the ages 35 and up hated it.

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
You're clearly missing the point.
Yes, unfortunately Prometheus did turn out NOT to be an Alien Origins Film, much to the disappointment of A LOT of people.

So once again, why a carving on the wall of an Alien Queen clearly as old as the ruins themselves....then why later give the impression of the very first Alien as a species?

How are you getting an Alien Queen from that mural?

looks like a normal Xeno to me.

Originally posted by Kazenji
How are you getting an Alien Queen from that mural?

looks like a normal Xeno to me.

Has to be a queen man, how else is she gonna lay the rest of the eggs?

Originally posted by Kazenji
How are you getting an Alien Queen from that mural?

looks like a normal Xeno to me.

There was more than one mural.
The one I'm thinking of the alien had a "big flared hood" for a head, similar to the alien queen in ALIENS & AVP...and on the carving she seemed to be looming over eggs or canisters.

And even if it was a "normal xeno"...why does the end of the movie imply/suggest that that creature was the 1st of its kind?

Originally posted by Esau Cairn

So once again, why a carving on the wall of an Alien Queen clearly as old as the ruins themselves....then why later give the impression of the very first Alien as a species?

You're making quite a few assumptions without much grounding. And quite frankly it's not all that interesting.

Here's what i think we will find out in the sequel(s): It's not just a military installation.. it's a RELIGIOUS installation for the latest self sacrifice ritual. Kind of like the self sacrifice for CREATION at the beginning of the film, except now we are much further in the future from that time, so their ritualistic/religious practices have gotten more advanced and sadistic. Ridley has stated that the Engineers are violent ****ers. This theory would also help make sense out of the murals and statue etc in the ship.

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
You're making quite a few assumptions without much grounding. And quite frankly it's not all that interesting.

Now you're sounding very naive & blatantly defensive.

So you didn't see the alien mural in the chamber?

So you didn't see the resemblance either to the new born xeno & come to the notion that it was the 1st of its species?

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
There was more than one mural.
The one I'm thinking of the alien had a "big flared hood" for a head, similar to the alien queen in ALIENS & AVP...and on the carving she seemed to be looming over eggs or canisters.

And even if it was a "normal xeno"...why does the end of the movie imply/suggest that that creature was the 1st of its kind?

The one that i can remember is the first one in that room with the big head.

So Naomi is gonna show up and do what with a headless robot and a ship full of bio weapons, release them on the Engineers?

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
Now you're sounding very naive & blatantly defensive.

So you didn't see the alien mural in the chamber?

So you didn't see the resemblance either to the new born xeno & come to the notion that it was the 1st of its species?

You answered your own question: The Engineers have murals dedicated to it, ergo it's probably NOT the first alien species of its kind. Hence my theory that their religious sacrificial practices have evolved and begun to revolve around it.

In case anyone is interested (probably not because it doesn't involve some goofy character in a skin-tight outfit with superpowers), here is the latest rumor and speculation surrounding the writing of the next film:

Prometheus 2 struggling to find a story?

As the title of this articles suggests, it would seem the recent reports of Prometheus 2's script being "incredible" and proceeding well, are not in fact so. Bloody Disgusting reports that sources close to the sequel claim that both Ridley and 20th Century Fox are struggling to find a story for the Prometheus 2 and it's eventual trilogy. But why? Apparently, they're placing blame on Damon Lindelof, the one who received most of the criticism upon Prometheus' release. Find out why below...

Damon Lindelof talks truth behind rumors - read it here

As most of us on this website know, Damon Lindelof was brought on to polish up Jon Spaihts' Prometheus script, originally entitled "Alien: Engineers", due to the fact that Spaihts' script linked directly to ALIEN and left little room for expanding the franchise.

Lindelof was hired to expand the story, and he did. Spaihts' original script took place on LV426, the same planet which both ALIEN and ALIENS took place on, Damon changed this location to a distant moon - LV223, a totally different location. The Juggernaut ship in Prometheus was also originally supposed to be the Derelict craft from ALIEN, but that also was changed. Everything connecting directly to ALIEN basically, was altered or removed to save for a later sequel. Here's what sources close to the project told BD:

Sources close to the sequel have told Bloody Disgusting that the studio and Scott are literally "freaking out" over how to continue the story of Elizabeth Shaw (Noomi Rapace), and are taking pitches from basically anyone who can crack the story*. While a sequel is nearly inevitable, it definitely puts it in flux, and in a state of jeopardy.

Ultimately, it was Damon Lindelof who convinced Ridley Scott and Fox to spread the film out into a new trilogy. This would have been fine, except, Lindelof dropped writing Prometheus 2 and left Scott and company wondering what to do next in terms of plot development. But is it true? Hard to say, since the only "official" word on the sequel we've had since June has been Ms. Rapace's mention of it where she said things are moving along well.

I find it very hard to believe that Ridley Scott and Fox are having trouble developing the Prometheus sequel story. I mean, just look at the Prometheus Community Forums here and look at all the theories and ideas which fans of the franchise have developed on their own! If you look through some of our most popular discussions here, you can piece together a very interesting and fulfilling trilogy, which stays true to the franchise. All Fox has to do is flip through a couple topics here and they will find a treasure trove of ideas. But my point is, if fans can come up with an enticing plot, why can't another screenwriter?

Now, granted the ending of Prometheus left with one avenue to pursue and that was to discover the Engineer Home World. But it doesn't have to necessarily. The beauty of Prometheus is that it did open up the universe to more possibilities. So, there is no reason why Scott or Fox would be having trouble developing the sequel. But that's my opinion. What do you think? Do you think Prometheus 2 could be in trouble?

Damon Lindelof talks truth behind Prometheus 2 rumors

Earlier today we mentioned some news that potentially put the story development for Prometheus 2 at risk. Well, it did not take long before Prometheus co-writer, Damon Lindelof responded to the rumors circulating about which also seemed fixated on blaming the writer for the potential setbacks Prometheus 2 was presumably facing. Read on below for details and an official quote from Damon Lindelof himself regarding the matter, courtesy of /Film.

Germain Lussier, from /Film got in touch with Lindelof via Twitter, following Bloody-Disgusting's report, claiming that "Ridley Scott and Fox were freaking about what to do with Prometheus 2". Simply put, Lindelof responded (via Twitter) by saying: "I don't believe Ridley Scott has ever freaked out in his life."

Furthermore, Lindelof reached out again to Germain via email to clarify the situation in more detail. Here's the full email Germain was sent:

[quote]Hey, man!

While I'm happy to maintain my ongoing role as internets whipping boy (well, not happy, but at least resigned) this is a weird attack piece, even for someone who should be used to it by now.

The unglamorous truth is this:

During the creative process of Prometheus, all involved (that includes Fox and Ridley) had a strong desire for this film to launch off in its own way so that by the end, it would not connect directly to the original ALIEN, but instead run parallel to it. This is something that I talked about many, many times in the press burst around the release of the movie. As you probably remember, there was a lot of interest as to whether Prometheus was a "prequel" - the answer was, "Yes. Sort of. But if there was a sequel to Prometheus, it would not be ALIEN."

Taking the strong foundation that Jon Spaihts had already written, I worked on the script to this end - and yes, during that process, Ridley did occasionally riff on what he felt might happen next as Shaw and David's Head ventured off of LV-223 in search of wherever The Engineers had come from.

After the movie came out and discussions began about a possible sequel, I was already neck deep in writing and producing TOMORROWLAND with Brad Bird. I have found, unfortunately, that if I take on too many projects at one time, there is a higher probability of those projects sucking. And contrary to popular belief, I do not want anything I work on to suck. I really don't. I care about these stories deeply - not just as a writer, but as a fan. It might not always feel that way to the audience, but I swear to God it is true. It also so happens that Ridley was about to embark on directing his next movie, THE COUNSELOR, and had another one, CHILD 44 lined up right behind it. The conclusion was obvious - In the best interest of the franchise, it was best to take myself out of the running before I had to suffer the embarrassment of potentially not even being offered it.

And that it is the complete (if not somewhat boring) truth.

As to whether Ridley and Fox are "freaking out" about me not working on a sequel, well that's news to me. I retain awesome relationships with both. More importantly, the idea that there aren't many, MANY writers out there capable of taking the reins is sort of ridiculous. I did not map out a trilogy and then walk when the going got tough. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't know me and doesn't know the truth.

The process of working on Prometheus with Ridley was one of the greatest things that has ever happened to me. Love or hate the result of that work, I don't regret having done it for a second.

Bloody Disgusting was very clever in tagging their story with the sentiment that denials were going to come. This would seem to throw shade on me denying the veracity of the story simply by anticipating that I would.

But denying the story I am.

As I said, I will take all the abuse in the world for the things I have done, but I refuse to take it for the things I have not.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Your Pal,

Damon

So, it would seem the rumors being reported by BD's sources are a tad inaccurate and thankfully, Prometheus 2 is not in any serious trouble. Also, the process of Prometheus 2's development has very little to do with Damon Lindelof, so to point the finger at him seems out of place to me.

Also, I feel I should also note, that according to Badass Digest:

"Fox has been taking many, many meetings with screenwriters, and that screenwriters have been pretty much bringing in their own pitches, not working within an established frame."

So, Prometheus' Sequel is still alive and well. The process of exploiting more of the mystery behind this expanded universe is expected to be a long and challenging one, there's a lot to cover and a lot to be explored.

This does not mean anyone is "freaking out", it simply means this process will take time, and I don't know about most of you, but I would rather Scott and company really iron out a solid script for the sequel, and explore as many options as possible instead of rushing the development process just to deliver quick and simple answers to the questions Prometheus raised.

As someone who really enjoyed Prometheus, I'm fine waiting a few extra months for the sequel, so long as it stays true to the franchise and delivers some truly mind blowing concepts. What about you?[/quote]

I agree with the author Chris Picard (admin at the Prometheus site). I think the confusion is that with a film like this, it is going to take a lot of time and precision to get it right and that is why it might seem to be "in trouble." As soon as the sequel was greenlit, the head of production at Fox said that Ridley was "extremely excited about it" (something like that). And Ridley has said that there is a plan for where the story is going.

Here's some theories

http://www.prometheus2-movie.com/community/forums/topic/12427

Originally posted by Kazenji
Here's some theories

http://www.prometheus2-movie.com/community/forums/topic/12427

Sounds like they're taking biblical-eeque cues form The Prophecy with the Engineers being angels and having a grudge that their gods (God) love 'normal' beings (humanity) more than them.