Do you think intelligent life exists?

Started by Symmetric Chaos10 pages

Originally posted by Dolos
Anyway, this article gets the core of why geniuses are manifested from a prodigal sense of self-worth;

http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-1-4614-5773-2_8#page-1

Self help authors write to sell books not reveal truths.

Originally posted by Dolos
I am a savant, yet I keep it fluid, and therefore I'm able to completely hide the tale tell signs of my disorder by improving inter-personal, emotional, and social skills in that same manner..out of necessity, utter focus on things outside of what my mind naturally clings to. I need to be able to adapt my ability to shut off everything, to what will help me survive in the now.

Oh, yeah, totally man.

Originally posted by Dolos
This abstract explains a little about how the brain analyzes and interprets the world through self-created patterns. It explains how we learn, how we think, why we perceive and respond the way we do. Meta-cognitively, this process can be self-improved upon, sharpened.

http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/login.jsp?tp=&arnumber=33&url=http%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fxpls%2Fabs_all.jsp%3Farnumber%3D33

That abstract is from a 1988 paper on computer programming, it tells us nothing about the human mind.

Originally posted by Dolos
Finally we have arousal, your over-bloated sense of things related to your learning and your improvement in life;

http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=search.displayRecord&UID=1996-02827-004

That study is about the connection between emotional arousal and memory. The story presented was about a boy going to see his father at work.

Originally posted by Dolos
Neo said to the Oracle, "I don't belief in all this, your prophecies, because I don't like the idea that I'm not in control of my own destiny."

1) Neo never says that first bit.
2) Believe, not belief.
3) He says the second bit to Morpheus, not the Oracle.
4) You've set yourself up as a prophet so I'm not sure why you'd choose this quote.
5) Quotes are a sign of a weak mind.

Quotes are a sign of a weak mind? #Oliver North citation or gtfo.

You're picking apart too much...all of those examples are viable except the least relevant to my point computer one...and that is exactly what Neo believed despite inexact quotes or typos.

I view myself as a cumulatively prodigious and self-destined man, not a prophetic one.

Originally posted by Dolos
Anyway, this article gets the core of why geniuses are manifested from a prodigal sense of self-worth;

http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-1-4614-5773-2_8#page-1

that is a book chapter, not peer reviewed

Originally posted by Dolos
This article is about the mentally impaired, but it gets down to focus on one thing, obsession, shutting off the world, and direct and phenomenal increases in cognitive functioning in that particular area;

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0156655920390208#.UYM2uKLP1YU

^I am a savant, yet I keep it fluid, and therefore I'm able to completely hide the tale tell signs of my disorder by improving inter-personal, emotional, and social skills in that same manner..out of necessity, utter focus on things outside of what my mind naturally clings to. I need to be able to adapt my ability to shut off everything, to what will help me survive in the now.

you have a legitimate clinical diagnosis or you have read about something on the internet and decided you have it?

Originally posted by Dolos
This abstract explains a little about how the brain analyzes and interprets the world through self-created patterns. It explains how we learn, how we think, why we perceive and respond the way we do. Meta-cognitively, this process can be self-improved upon, sharpened.

http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/login.jsp?tp=&arnumber=33&url=http%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fxpls%2Fabs_all.jsp%3Farnumber%3D33

not really. That is an article about a computer model that tries to use neural networks to produce pattern recognition that produces results on tasks similar to how humans perform. Models don't actually purport to describe the mechanisms that the brain uses, but rather, we try to use models to infer what types of mechanisms could be there. I'd imagine the article might have a line or two in it suggesting what you are saying, but it is not a very good example overall. In fact, neural network models have fallen out of fashion. I don't do modeling so I can't give you the whole story, but there are lots of other competing ones now.

That being said, what you wrote is not hugely different from how learning is understood. Patterns aren't "self-made", but sure, at every level, from low level perception to high level cognition, our brain seeks patterns, and does so even if there is no pattern. In more behaviorist terms, it can be thought of as response contingencies between behaviour and outcome. This is why current neuro theories of memory focus on the physical connections built between stimuli, and why there is no single location for memory in the brain. We learn associations between things.

Originally posted by Dolos
Finally we have arousal, your over-bloated sense of things related to your learning and your improvement in life;

http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=search.displayRecord&UID=1996-02827-004

there is actually a very complex relationship between arousal and memory. for instance, there is a "sweet spot" for arousal: too little or too much, and performance tanks, but with "just enough", memory, and nearly all other task performance peaks. Not only that, but there is a contextual component as well. So, at peak arousal, not only do you encode and retrieve memories better, you have a bias for memories you had previously encoded at that same level of arousal verses those at other levels of arousal. Similarly, if you encode something at low arousal, you are biased toward that information when trying to retrieve something later at low arousal.

This type of hypersensitivity to context is a really fascinating part of the brain 🙂

EDIT: Just to throw it out there, what I quoted wasn't really related to any of this, namely the "The brain isn't unique" line...

Personality is unique. Intelligence, skills are unique. At birth every brain is about the same save amount of gray matter.

And thus every brain can learn fastest under very particular circumstances.

My main point was that, because of how the brain works, a grandiose mindset, especial one of egocentricity can heighten stimuli because everything revolves around you it has greater emotional meaning to you. When compounded with daunting personal goals and obsessive amounts of inexorable focus conceitedness can turbocharge savant-like conditions and for any human traits of vanity and obsessiveness in a pure academic setting is invaluable for an asipiring top notch genius. That is human. That does not mean one isn't being altruistic with the resulting capacity for good because of their genius, or that they're not sacrificing a social life. And it might not be the best path for everyone.

Yes I am clinically diagnosed with a learning disorder, moreover I learn differently- in a savant sense. I have learned ways to overcome that because I'm aware of my lack of focus or concern and I can flip it into increased focus and concern. My grades skyrocketed.

On to how the brain creates patterns out of nothing.
That essentially goes back to how we attribute meaning or fate to our lives. Like. 'I'm here for a reason." Or "my whole platoon died and I lived. Most of my family has fallen terminally ill or ave been in fataal accidents. But not me, its not my fate." However, philosophically I truly believe we make our own fates. Consciousness takes chaos and creates order out of it.

Mine is a meta-destiny. Being aware of the things I attribute my purpose to, and manipulating them to desirable outcomes and a desirable purpose and position in society.

That is, of course, only my perspective. A reality I would never ignore. Knowing that these patterns could be random and meaningless will effect my decisions in life.

Originally posted by Dolos
At birth every brain is about the same

no, not even close

Originally posted by Dolos
save amount of gray matter.

that is a pretty big one though...

Originally posted by Dolos
My main point was that, because of how the brain works, a grandiose mindset, especial one of egocentricity can heighten stimuli because everything revolves around you it has greater emotional meaning to you.

salience is relative though. You only have a benefit for memory in an aroused state when compared to other states. It is not that being in a state of arousal is just "better", and if you were always in an aroused state the end result would be no benefit.

The relationship between memory and arousal is all within the individual. It does not mean that people who are aroused more have better memories, and in fact, prolonged states of arousal are associated with all sorts of physical and mental problems. One of the main ones being sleep problems, and one's memory suffers massively when they don't sleep right.

Originally posted by Dolos
When compounded with daunting personal goals and obsessive amounts of inexorable focus conceitedness can turbocharge savant-like conditions and for any human traits of vanity and obsessiveness in a pure academic setting is invaluable for an asipiring top notch genius.

too many of those words are just too non-specific for that to have much meaning to me. It sounds like a really complex way of saying "try hard and focus". Certainly, from a neuroscientific point of view, "turbocharging savant like conditions" is word salad, but I don't think you mean it in the way I'm interpreting it anyways.

Originally posted by Dolos
That is human. That does not mean one isn't being altruistic with the resulting capacity for good because of their genius, or that they're not sacrificing a social life. And it might not be the best path for everyone.

I'm not sure what this means at all

to be frank, you don't demonstrate the intellectual disability normally associated with savant syndrome, Dolos...

The savant syndrome: an extraordinary condition. A synopsis: past, present, future.

Savant syndrome is a rare, but extraordinary, condition in which persons with serious mental disabilities, including autistic disorder, have some 'island of genius' which stands in marked, incongruous contrast to overall handicap. As many as one in 10 persons with autistic disorder have such remarkable abilities in varying degrees, although savant syndrome occurs in other developmental disabilities or in other types of central nervous system injury or disease as well. Whatever the particular savant skill, it is always linked to massive memory. This paper presents a brief review of the phenomenology of savant skills, the history of the concept and implications for education and future research.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19528017

The brain holds power over the body. I can sleep on a whim. Its a matter of forcedly relaxing my muscles and lowering body temp. Yet I can enter REM and find that arousal again, without negatively effecting my memory, quite the contrary.

There is no limit to what the brain can achieve cognitively. There are plateuas certainly. It's about finding greater arousal and overcoming cognitive barriers. Gray matter is only a head start. Those who come out of the darkness of the dullness truly have the greatest potentials.

Originally posted by Dolos
The brain holds power over the body. I can sleep on a whim. Its a matter of forcedly relaxing my muscles and lowering body temp. Yet I can enter REM and find that arousal again, without negatively effecting my memory, quite the contrary.

There is no limit to what the brain can achieve cognitively. There are plateuas certainly. It's about finding greater arousal and overcoming cognitive barriers. Gray matter is only a head start. Those who come out of the darkness of the dullness truly have the greatest potentials.

you are right Dolos, human neuroscience has no impact on you, you are just that special

Originally posted by Oliver North
you are right Dolos, human neuroscience has no impact on you, you are just that special

I never said that. It has a very strong impact. You're just underestimating the mind. Study Jake Barnett and all he's done, don't just Wikipedia..you will think twice about how miraculous the brain can be when it comes to overcoming the impact of cognitive 'limitations'.

If you're referring to willed sleep in anxious states, that is very possible for anyone. 'Meditation' is very similiar to what I just described about methodically calming the nervous system to allow sleep.

Originally posted by Dolos
I never said that. It has a very strong impact. You're just underestimating the mind. Study Jake Barnett and all he's done, don't just Wikipedia..you will think twice about how miraculous the brain can be when it comes to overcoming the impact of cognitive 'limitations'.

I'm not going to argue against your spirituality

Originally posted by Dolos
If you're referring to willed sleep in anxious states, that is very possible for anyone. 'Meditation' is very similiar to what I just described about methodically calming the nervous system to allow sleep.

yes?

thats my point, an aroused state leads to sleep problems. controlling your arousal will fix that...

oh, right, we are talking about you and how amazing the things you do are, because it totally isn't like you are the same as everyone else, no, couldn't be

Originally posted by Dolos
Quotes are a sign of a weak mind? #Oliver North citation or gtfo.

It's a statement of personal philosophy. People who rely on quotes either lack or deny a basic human capacity. It's like they want to be p-zombies.

Originally posted by Dolos
You're picking apart too much...

If you can't stand up to criticism you probably shouldn't discuss your beliefs in public. You can have them, of course, and it doesn't make them invalid, but once you bring them into the public sphere they'll be challenged. You can't get upset by that.

Originally posted by Dolos
all of those examples are viable except the least relevant to my point computer one.

The book is a self-help volume, anyone can write anything they want. I can go write a completely opposite philosophy then cite myself if you like.

The computer one is completely irrelevant. Whether it reflects the workings of the mind or not.

The bit on savant syndrome is interesting but there are many theories for the underlying cause of savant syndrome. You seem to want to argue for a "ten thousand hours of practice" type of cause (which I'm sympathetic to) but you're ignoring that it is extremely unlikely to be a complete account of savant syndrome. In autism behavioral and neurological differences are detectable in infancy.

The study on arousal is only relevant if you make several enormous, unjustified, inferential leaps.

Originally posted by Dolos
I view myself as a cumulatively prodigious and self-destined man, not a prophetic one.

You espouse an inevitabilist view of history which directly prevents you from being self-destined.

Originally posted by Oliver North
I'm not going to argue against your spirituality

yes?

thats my point, an aroused state leads to sleep problems. controlling your arousal will fix that...

oh, right, we are talking about [b]you and how amazing the things you do are, because it totally isn't like you are the same as everyone else, no, couldn't be [/B]

And then wake up and turn the hypersensitivity back on. Everyday you get more stimulis, you bring more fluid memory and concentration than most people. Then with effort and control you put yourself back to sleep. Guaranteed dreams, guaranteed REM, your brain needs needs to work out what's happening, brain lifting, instead of getting stronger by weight lifting you're becoming a genius with an incredible IQ.

again, I have no interest in debating your spirituality

Originally posted by Oliver North
again, I have no interest in debating your spirituality

Can that crank-lite bs even be called spirituality?

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Can that crank-lite bs even be called spirituality?

It is really just short-hand to say I don't think his ideas have anything to do with the scientific understanding of the brain.

It's a bit more facetious than calling it straight out bs, but I'm with you mostly.

Originally posted by Oliver North
It's a bit more facetious than calling it straight out bs, but I'm with you mostly.

You're being too kind/generous to him then.

Again, look at people like Jake Barnett or Magnus Carlsen and the incredible things they can do...and tell me it's spiritual or bullshit.

That part of my argument is fact, the part about how we unwittingly create patterns in destiny day by day is more of a perspective, not BS, and not really spirituality. It's an observatory speculation, that I may transform into a working hypothesis in the future.

"A New Equation Reveals Our Exact Odds of Finding Alien Life."

http://io9.com/what-a-brand-new-equation-reveals-about-our-odds-of-fin-531575395

"Alien Poll Finds Half Of Americans Think Extraterrestrial Life Exists."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/21/alien-poll_n_3473852.html