Originally posted by DarkOdin
In odin fight with thanos Odin underestimated Thanos Thus why odin gave Thanos some respect at the end. Odin at the start of the fight opened up with a back hand.Also thanos was able to rock and hurt tyrant somewhat yet he failed to even budge Odin.
Odin said he hadn't fought a opponent like that in eons. How does underestimating Thanos diminish his performance?
Just about all of Thanos' offense was due to the orb. You see in the scans how badly he needed it.
Originally posted by Sundipped
It was stated that Odin took it to all of his peers to bestow a fraction of their powers to it. Every time it is in action, thats the power on display. However, only Odin and Asgard's essence flowed out of it after it got slagged in this and every other case where it is inhabited.
It was stated that Odin took it to all of his peers to bestow a fraction of their powers to it. Every time it is in action, thats the power on display.
However, only Odin and Asgard's essence flowed out of it after it got slagged in this and every other case where it is inhabited.
Seems we're not at arms against each other afterall. 👆
for the sake of reference though, thanos appeared to be able to impact tyrant far more than he was able to affect odin. he did nothing like any of these to odin:
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/49922/1057397-tyrant8_super.jpg
http://www.universomarvel.com.aq/thanos/Thanos_Tyrant_5.jpg
and this scene was very reminiscent of the odin scene:
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/2/24463/440948-strength9fg3_super.jpg
odin at no time seemed affected by anything thanos could do. tyrant displayed greater offense (but odin seemed to be ramping it up as the fight went along) but odin showed greater durability imo.
incidentally, it was proven on panel that the orb did NOT amp thanos at all for that fight. they held only knowledge, not power:
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Tyrant_orbs3.jpg
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Tyrant_orbs4.jpg
in the end, he was going to lose to both. maybe tyrant could have killed him quicker, but tyrant also got pretty po'd a lot faster than odin did....so, meh.
Originally posted by leonidas
for the sake of reference though, thanos appeared to be able to impact tyrant far more than he was able to affect odin. he did nothing like any of these to odin:http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/49922/1057397-tyrant8_super.jpg
http://www.universomarvel.com.aq/thanos/Thanos_Tyrant_5.jpg
and this scene was very reminiscent of the odin scene:
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/2/24463/440948-strength9fg3_super.jpg
odin at no time seemed affected by anything thanos could do. tyrant displayed greater offense (but odin seemed to be ramping it up as the fight went along) but odin showed greater durability imo.
Because "at no time did Odin seem affected by anything Thanos could do", yet look at what he did to Galactus : sent REELING hundreds of yards and armor broken and smoldering..
And those orbs DID hold power :
Originally posted by zopzop
[b]Part II - The Jakar SectionAs some of you know, Jakar is the Stranger's rival. He constantly looks for ways to one up and conquer him. Jakar saw what went down between Thanos and Tyrant and wants the "Orbs of Knowledge" as he calls them from Tyrant as a source of power to one up the Stranger. He sends Jack of Hearts as a diversion and the two Spinsters will steal an Orb and bring it to Jakar.
The plan works and he gets his hands on an Orb and claims it's the key to helping him conquer this universe!
Some interesting Tyrant tidbits are to be found here too. He apparently puts himself in a self induced coma for whatever reason while he's not out conquering. And his worldship is of techno-organic nature.
Part II continued.... (after Tyrant's death)
This scene takes place after Tyrant and Galactus were "killed" by the UN backlash. Jakar still claims the Orb, once he unlocks it's power, will be key to helping him conquer the universe. When the Surfer threatens to destroy Jakar's tech (he has no innate power, all the stuff he does is because of his advance tech), he doesn't care "I have the Orb, I have no need of...".
So IMHO, taking all of this into consideration, Thanos was most definitely "amped" by the Orb when he took on Tyrant.
Coming soon, the Tyrant vs Jack of Hearts/Legacy/Ganymede/Terrax fight. [/B]
Originally posted by zopzop
So using this logic, Odin >>>>>>>Galactus :
Because "at no time did Odin seem affected by anything Thanos could do", yet look at what he did to Galactus : sent REELING hundreds of yards and armor broken and smoldering..And those orbs DID hold power :
catching someone off-guard as he did galactus is pretty meaningless as i'm sure you're aware...... he clearly affected g there more than he did tyrant at any point of the fight as well. so tyrant>>>>galactus? ridiculous point zop. however, if you want to throw away any of the displayed impacts and affects of the fight, then why are you (and others) bothering to compare them in the first place. pretty pointless if you feel it leads to abc logic all the time. if that's the case, why compare ANY 2 fights? you're taking the comparison to a faulty conclusion to make a point that is illogical. both the tyrant and the odin fight were prolonged and better indicators than a single outburst at galactus--who was utterly unaffected anyway, aside from having his helmet knocked off.
so, yeah. your point is meaningless.
and i agree--if the orb's knowledge could have been unlocked it COULD have held power. just that thanos didn't USE the knowledge in it, therefore he did not USE the power in it. so, i disagree completely with that interpretation you posted.
Originally posted by leonidas
for the sake of reference though, thanos appeared to be able to impact tyrant far more than he was able to affect odin. he did nothing like any of these to odin:http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/49922/1057397-tyrant8_super.jpg
http://www.universomarvel.com.aq/thanos/Thanos_Tyrant_5.jpg
and this scene was very reminiscent of the odin scene:
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/2/24463/440948-strength9fg3_super.jpg
odin at no time seemed affected by anything thanos could do. tyrant displayed greater offense (but odin seemed to be ramping it up as the fight went along) but odin showed greater durability imo.
incidentally, it was proven on panel that the orb did NOT amp thanos at all for that fight. they held only knowledge, not power:
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Tyrant_orbs3.jpg
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Tyrant_orbs4.jpg
in the end, he was going to lose to both. maybe tyrant could have killed him quicker, but tyrant also got pretty po'd a lot faster than odin did....so, meh.
The second scan you posted is the only shot Thanos really got off. The first scan shows a followup shot behind him using the orb. He may not have gotten any off had it not been for that amp.
Also, on panel, we see energy projection coming from the orb during the fight which amped Thanos. Thats why Tyrant told him he was more than the others were right after he tanked the first blast. Even in the scan you posted, energy can be seen radiating around it.
Originally posted by Sundipped
The second scan you posted is the only shot Thanos really got off. The first scan shows a followup shot behind him using the orb. He may not have gotten any off had it not been for that amp.Also, on panel, we see energy projection coming from the orb during the fight which amped Thanos. Thats why Tyrant told him he was more than the others were right after he tanked the first blast. Even in the scan you posted, energy can be seen radiating around it.
i used to believe the same thing, but either it was retconned to NOT be empowering, or it was poorly depicted in the first place. 😬 either way, i don't think the follow-up scans can really be logically refuted for that battle, which means we need to credit the fight to thanos' power alone. least imo. and follow-up shot or not, he did not come close to affecting odin the same way. i simply don't see a huge disparity between the 2 fights in general but maybe that's just me. thanos seemed to get under tyrant's skin and piss him off very quickly. odin just sort of seemed to continue to mount his damage. the approaches were different, the results the same imo.
Originally posted by leonidas
catching someone off-guard as he did galactus is pretty meaningless as i'm sure you're aware......
he clearly affected g there more than he did tyrant at any point of the fight as well. so tyrant>>>>galactus? ridiculous point zop. however, if you want to throw away any of the displayed impacts and affects of the fight, then why are you (and others) bothering to compare them in the first place. pretty pointless if you feel it leads to abc logic all the time. if that's the case, why compare ANY 2 fights? you're taking the comparison to a faulty conclusion to make a point that is illogical. both the tyrant and the odin fight were prolonged and better indicators than a single outburst at galactus--who was utterly unaffected anyway, aside from having his helmet knocked off.so, yeah. your point is meaningless.
Originally posted by zopzop
The infamous "Orb" issue, you know what I'm talkin' bout! 🙂[b]Part I - The Thanos Section
Thanos most definitely had prep going into the Tyrant fight. He sought out the person who had contact with him, survived and was willing to work with Thanos. That person was Terrax. Terrax told Thanos about the Orbs and how important they were to Tyrant. That he stores energy in the Orbs and can use it later as needed. Please note when he tells Thanos : Such a power reserve is Tyrant's greatest asset as well as his greatest vulnerability should it be turned against him.
Could this have been why Thanos was holding on to that Orb as if his life depended on it? Could this be why Thanos was blasting him and punching him with the Orb? Terrax's statement sort of fits what we later see Thanos doing in his fight vs Tyrant. [/B]
So Thanos was amped.
and i agree--if the orb's knowledge could have been unlocked it COULD have held power. just that thanos didn't USE the knowledge in it, therefore he did not USE the power in it. so, i disagree completely with that interpretation you posted.
Originally posted by Sundipped
Odin said he hadn't fought a opponent like that in eons. How does underestimating Thanos diminish his performance?Just about all of Thanos' offense was due to the orb. You see in the scans how badly he needed it.
I wouldn't say diminish's thanos performance but it orange to apples.
Lets say Odin was only going 50% of his potenetial because he didn't think he needed more from the start but then he ended using 70%
Were as Tyrant came off from the start using 70%
Thanos just used the orb as a weapon weapon to bash tyrant
Originally posted by leonidasl
i used to believe the same thing, but either it was retconned to NOT be empowering, or it was poorly depicted in the first place. 😬 either way, i don't think the follow-up scans can really be logically refuted for that battle, which means we need to credit the fight to thanos' power alone. least imo. and follow-up shot or not, he did not come close to affecting odin the same way. i simply don't see a huge disparity between the 2 fights in general but maybe that's just me. thanos seemed to get under tyrant's skin and piss him off very quickly. odin just sort of seemed to continue to mount his damage. the approaches were different, the results the same imo.
I'm not buying a retcon (for what, how?) or poor depiction. Tyrant stated he wanted to keep Morg and I see why. It was his energy in that orb. The depiction makes perfect sense in that regard.
If you don't agree that him using that orb the second time led to that follow up, then that's your prerogative I guess. Don't see how you could think that though. If we were fighting and I struck you solidly with a weapon (baseball bat), that would easily make you vulnerable to the next oncoming shot if I act without hesitation like Thanos did. Same rules apply here.
Originally posted by zopzopThat's blatantly untrue. The scan was posted before and here it is again :
He did NOT take Galactus by surprise. Galactus turned to attack him and threatened him with death.
and? that doesn't in the least mean g was ready for what thanos did. he did NOT expect thanos to attack him. if he did not expect the attack, he was caught by surprise. had the fight went on, you think thanos could have done that a SECOND time?? not a chance in all the hells. in his overconfidence (something g is known for, especially in that arc....) he was going to treat thanos like a bug. thanos stung him first is all. threatening to kill him does not preclude an ability to be surprised by thanos's tactic. at all
We can compare them because in the case of Tyrant (as opposed to Odin and Galactus), Thanos had six issues of prep and an amp. Terrax confirmed to Thanos that the orbs were his "greatest asset and his greatest vulnerability should they be used against him"This was written by Marz, Tyrant's creator. Lackey ignored the orbs altogther and lastly Gallager (writer of the Jakar/Cosmic Powers unlimited story) and final person to write/mention Tyrant again has the orbs as a source of power.
So Thanos was amped.
i agree with one part--initially i also believe they were intended to be a source of power. later they were retconned. i don't like it. i don't think it makes sense (see the growing gauntlet thread for proof) yet i don't think most retcons make sense. they are what they are however. the orb possessed knowledge that if unlocked could lead to some type of undisclosed power. the one in question apparently held morg's at one point but not when thanos had it. so....we don't even know what kind of power the orb could have held were it unlocked. but in that battle thanos did NOT unlock it so, by retcon, we need to recognize that it was thanos alone who battled tyrant. no one likes it less than i do.
Dude ON PANEL he used the orb to blast Tyrant in the face and that's what started off Thanos' offense.
or, by retcon, it is thanos's power being directed through an apparently useless orb of knowledge. retcons suck but the world goes on.
Originally posted by Sundipped
lI'm not buying a retcon (for what, how?) or poor depiction. Tyrant stated he wanted to keep Morg and I see why. It was his energy in that orb. The depiction makes perfect sense in that regard.
If you don't agree that him using that orb the second time led to that follow up, then that's your prerogative I guess. Don't see how you could think that though. If we were fighting and I struck you solidly with a weapon (baseball bat), that would easily make you vulnerable to the next oncoming shot if I act without hesitation like Thanos did. Same rules apply here.
based on what was later revealed, it calls for a reinterpretation of the battle and the events of the battle. the orb held knowledge--it is stated, blatantly, a NUMBER of times in the follow-up arc. it is blatantly stated that the knowledge could be unlocked to provide some form of undisclosed power, but thanos did not unlock it, therefore, it was not a source of additional power by retconned interpretation.
as i've said--i agreed with you at one point, (for the longest time) but to allow your definition of the battle (and my own previous one) disregards the very clear and blatant retcon regarding the value of the orb. and that seems to be a stance one can only hold based on intransigence--or dislike for a character.
@zop--the prep mattered little to none. what specifically did he DO with his prep? how did it affect thanos, personally, and his power? it allowed his to gather the orb, but....so? the orb was meaningless. for all his prep, in the end it amounts to him, under his own power, fighting tyrant. just like he did against odin.
i doubt we'll ever agree. i can't really even fault the interpretation. i just think the retcon is pretty blatant and really shouldn't be disregarded.
Originally posted by DarkOdin
I wouldn't say diminish's thanos performance but it orange to apples.Lets say Odin was only going 50% of his potenetial because he didn't think he needed more from the start but then he ended using 70%
Were as Tyrant came off from the start using 70%
Thanos just used the orb as a weapon weapon to bash tyrant
Only 50%. No, Odin put out more than that. Why summon the staff?
And no that wasn't Tyrant extremely pissed. Did you see the talons come out fighting Thanos like they did against Galactus?
If anything, Odin tried harder.
Originally posted by leonidas
based on what was later revealed, it calls for a reinterpretation of the battle and the events of the battle. the orb held knowledge--it is stated, blatantly, a NUMBER of times in the follow-up arc. it is blatantly stated that the knowledge could be unlocked to provide some form of undisclosed power, but thanos did not unlock it, therefore, it was not a source of additional power by retconned interpretation.as i've said--i agreed with you at one point, (for the longest time) but to allow your definition of the battle (and my own previous one) disregards the very clear and blatant retcon regarding the value of the orb. and that seems to be a stance one can only hold based on intransigence--or dislike for a character.
@zop--the prep mattered little to none. what specifically did he DO with his prep? how did it affect thanos, personally, and his power? it allowed his to gather the orb, but....so? the orb was meaningless. for all his prep, in the end it amounts to him, under his own power, fighting tyrant. just like he did against odin.
i doubt we'll ever agree. i can't really even fault the interpretation. i just think the retcon is pretty blatant and really shouldn't be disregarded.
Don't see how you disregard the fact that Thanos is clearly shown aiming the orb with energy coming out twice. Oh well.
Can it not be possible that the orb can be used offensively (energy projection/blunt object) as well as containing certain secrets and knowledge? That's how I see it.
Originally posted by Sundipped
Don't see how you disregard the fact that Thanos is clearly shown [B]aiming the orb with energy coming out twice. Oh well.Can it not be possible that the orb can be used offensively (energy projection/blunt object) as well as containing certain secrets and knowledge? That's how I see it. [/B]
possible? maybe, that is just never overtly alluded to. like i said, when it was written and drawn, i believe you're right--it was certainly intended to be a source of added power. retcons, though changing the interpretation, can't change the pictures....it forces us (by definition) to come up with seemingly illogical explanations for past events and depictions. (think about all the scenes that needed to be reinterpreted as related to the pr beyonder....).
if you're convinced though, you're convinced. you clearly have zop in your corner. in the face of that later info, i just don't see a logical way to say it was a power source, when it was blatantly, and several times reiterated later on, to be nothing more than a source of KNOWLEDGE that might unlock some unknown power. of course, how you choose to see it is up to you.
