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Originally posted by Cogito
Hickman pretty much implied that Galactus and Franklin were on the same level when each resurrected the other. Yes, Galactus was as amped as we've ever seen him on panel, but so was Franklin at the time.
The former is literally confirmed by Hickman on formspring, and the latter is right there on-panel.
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Incorrect. Galactus did not resurrect Franklin. Also, Galactus fed on 4 planets was unwittingly portrayed as adult Franklin's superior.The former is literally confirmed by Hickman on formspring, and the latter is right there on-panel.
Sure looked like Franklin suicided and Galactus resurrected him to me, but I haven't seen Hickman's Formspring thoughts.
And I'm not convinced that either was definitively shown or implied to be more powerful than the other.
Originally posted by Cogito
Sure looked like Franklin suicided and Galactus resurrected him to me, but I haven't seen Hickman's Formspring thoughts.And I'm not convinced that either was definitively shown or implied to be more powerful than the other.
Franklin taking on the Celestials in a grand style was supposed to be one of his big moments. For Galactus, it was just business as usual. Then there is the case of the MCs needing to merge in order to one-shot G. No such thing with Franklin. Seems pretty clear cut to me.
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Seemed that way to everybody except one guy. And that guy turned out to be right in the end.Franklin taking on the Celestials in a grand style was supposed to be one of his big moments. For Galactus, it was just business as usual. Then there is the case of the MCs needing to merge in order to one-shot G. No such thing with Franklin. Seems pretty clear cut to me.
Business as usual? The guy amped harder than he has in the past 50 years to face them.
Franklin deliberately held back his amp (young Franklin's power) to resurrect Galactus. If he had used his amp offensively (as Galactus did), who knows what might have happened.
---
Here's some more of Hickman's posts I found that are relevant:
In F4 # 604, aside from being used to resurrect Galactus, did young Franklin's orb serve an additional purpose of increasing the adult Franklin's power in the fight against the Celestials?
"Future Franklin, recharged/resurrected Galactus using all the juice little Franklin had."
Mr.Hickman, if Galactus couldn't defeat 3 or 4 of the Mad Celestials all by himself in F4#603, why did they opt to merge? For some readers, this was a point of confusion. Thanks for your time.
"He clearly -- cranked up on four planets -- could separately cause them some serious damage. So they merged and crushed him."
---
By Hickman's account, this was not "business as usual" for Galactus. He was going to get his ass handed to him either way, just as Franklin would have if he had tried to solo.
Originally posted by Cogito
Business as usual? The guy amped harder than he has in the past 50 years to face them.Franklin deliberately held back his amp (young Franklin's power) to resurrect Galactus. If he had used his amp offensively (as Galactus did), who knows what might have happened.
---
Here's some more of Hickman's posts I found that are relevant:
In F4 # 604, aside from being used to resurrect Galactus, did young Franklin's orb serve an additional purpose of increasing the adult Franklin's power in the fight against the Celestials?
"Future Franklin, recharged/resurrected Galactus using all the juice little Franklin had."Mr.Hickman, if Galactus couldn't defeat 3 or 4 of the Mad Celestials all by himself in F4#603, why did they opt to merge? For some readers, this was a point of confusion. Thanks for your time.
"He clearly -- cranked up on four planets -- could separately cause them some serious damage. So they merged and crushed him."---
By Hickman's account, this was not "business as usual" for Galactus. He was going to get his ass handed to him either way, just as Franklin would have if he had tried to solo.
I think you just owned everyone here...
👆
Originally posted by Cogito
Business as usual? The guy amped harder than he has in the past 50 years to face them.
It also depends on his hunger as well. As I'm sure you're aware of, he has his "4 planet" form. However, when he got drained by the Elders and the Infinity Gems, at least 4 planets (although judging by it, it's likely he got all 6) merely filled him to capacity. Mind you he was very drained, however it could be seen that one planet doesn't put him at full strength, but rather at a comfortable level for him to await his next planet.
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Energy%20manipulation/Absorbing/silversurfer198800915qj5.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Energy%20manipulation/Absorbing/Absorbssun-SSv39.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Energy%20manipulation/Absorbing/silversurfer198800919es9.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Energy%20manipulation/Absorbing/silversurfer198800920am1.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Energy%20manipulation/Absorbing/silversurfer198800921go7.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Energy%20manipulation/Absorbing/silversurfer198800922ti9.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Energy%20manipulation/Absorbing/silversurfer198800923as8.jpgsrug
Originally posted by Cogito
Franklin deliberately held back his amp (young Franklin's power) to resurrect Galactus. If he had used his amp offensively (as Galactus did), who knows what might have happened.
Originally posted by Cogito
Here's some more of Hickman's posts I found that are relevant:In F4 # 604, aside from being used to resurrect Galactus, did young Franklin's orb serve an additional purpose of increasing the adult Franklin's power in the fight against the Celestials?
"Future Franklin, recharged/resurrected Galactus using all the juice little Franklin had."Mr.Hickman, if Galactus couldn't defeat 3 or 4 of the Mad Celestials all by himself in F4#603, why did they opt to merge? For some readers, this was a point of confusion. Thanks for your time.
"He clearly -- cranked up on four planets -- could separately cause them some serious damage. So they merged and crushed him."---
By Hickman's account, this was not "business as usual" for Galactus. He was going to get his ass handed to him either way, just as Franklin would have if he had tried to solo.
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
"Amped harder than he has in 50 years".This is an old PM from Bran, in whose Galactus knowledge I put more stock than yours:I am not even sure why you're calling that an amp. Adult Franklin, as the rest of Doon's questions show, only used that blue orb for the sole purpose of
😆You think that somehow proves that Franklin was on Galactus(fed on 4 planets) level? It's clear from the on-panel evidence that the Mad Celestials viewed Galactus as a greater threat than Franklin, otherwise they would have Voltroned to one-shot Franklin as well when he killed one of them. And don't bring up the "we don't know how Celestial recombination works" excuse to explain away this discrepancy.
I for one would agree that Franklin is on a par with a 4 planet amped given that he has been portrayed as their peers ( The Celestials) plus.
For one, they analyzed a young Franklin and perceived him as a threat calling him an "anomaly, universal shaper, harbinger, beyond omega classification, destroyer" ect which resulted in a failed telepathic assault and blast on their part.
Then his adult counterpart emerged, in which that time they were incapable of merging due to other Celestial's destroyed body. Again they referred to him as these things again, even calling him "danger, doom" they viewed him as great threat, more so equal to Galactus, if not, even more.
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
I am not even sure why you're calling that an amp. Adult Franklin, as the rest of Doon's questions show, only used that blue orb for the sole purpose of
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
😆You think that somehow proves that Franklin was on Galactus(fed on 4 planets) level? It's clear from the on-panel evidence that the Mad Celestials viewed Galactus as a greater threat than Franklin, otherwise they would have Voltroned to one-shot Franklin as well when he killed one of them. And don't bring up the "we don't know how Celestial recombination works" excuse to explain away this discrepancy.
I don't use excuses.
And no, I don't think regular future Franklin was on the level of Galactus. I think future Franklin w/ young Franklin's power was on the level of Galactus. I think that was Hickman's intention, and I think he showed that very deliberately by using that power to resurrect Galactus to what appeared to be his full power (or close enough to it). I think if Franklin had used young Franklin's power to augment himself, he would have stood toe to toe with Galactus in that issue. As it was, he was perhaps a hair below because he held back his power as a trump card.
My argument isn't that either was stronger, or anything like that. The argument is over whether or not there was a definitive difference on-panel, and I don't think there was, nor do I think Hickman intended for there to be one. The only case I've presented so far is to deny the "evidence" you claim puts Galactus over the top.
Originally posted by Mr.SunKing
[b]Since their initial introduction, the author stated that the Celestials were intended to be a tier above Galactus and the Watchers. [/B]
Originally posted by Cogito
Because it was an amp. He doubled? his power, except he didn't use it offensively or defensively, he gave it away.
Originally posted by Cogito
I don't use excuses.And no, I don't think regular future Franklin was on the level of Galactus. I think future Franklin w/ young Franklin's power was on the level of Galactus. I think that was Hickman's intention, and I think he showed that very deliberately by using that power to resurrect Galactus to what appeared to be his full power (or close enough to it). I think if Franklin had used young Franklin's power to augment himself, he would have stood toe to toe with Galactus in that issue. As it was, he was perhaps a hair below because he held back his power as a trump card.
My argument isn't that either was stronger, or anything like that. The argument is over whether or not there was a definitive difference on-panel, and I don't think there was, nor do I think Hickman intended for there to be one. The only case I've presented so far is to deny the "evidence" you claim puts Galactus over the top.
The way I see it, this is how the power levels of said characters were laid out for us(whether intentionally or unwittingly):
Voltron Celestial>4-planet-fed Galactus>Adult Franklin>Revived Galactus>=Individual Celestials.
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
It really wasn't. If he used it solely for the purpose of resurrecting Galactus(which is exactly what he did and what Hickman confirmed), then it can't be an amp. Think about it.
I did think about it. There's no reason why Franklin couldn't have used young Franklin's power to augment himself. He chose to use it to revive Galactus. Let's not get hung up on the semantics of the word "amp" though.
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
In terms of how much damage each did to the Mad Celestials, I'd agree that they were portrayed as peers. However, it's undeniable that the Celestials had to combine to put down Galactus, something they didn't opt for with Franklin.
You're the one who brought Hickman's Formspring comments into this. By Hickman's own Formspring words, the Celestials did not have to combine to defeat Galactus. There's two quotes from him, and they're only a few posts above.
