Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Lol, wtf?Vulcan's good at manipulating energy. Mjolnir however makes Vulcan look like a child in comparison.
Mjolnir is good at releasing and absorbing energy. That doesn't matter however: Vulcan's ability to manipulate and control energy is much more versatile than that. Vulcan has fought energy absorbers before and has beat them easily. He can control absorbed energy just as well as any other energy.
Originally posted by Magnon
Mjolnir is good at releasing and absorbing energy. That doesn't matter however: Vulcan's ability to manipulate and control energy is much more versatile than that. Vulcan has fought energy absorbers before and has beat them easily. He can control absorbed energy just as well as any other energy.
Vulcan has never demonstrated the level of power or ability even remotely comparable to Mjolnir's best.
As a matter of fact, we outright saw a supercharged Havok beat the absolutely crap out of him in a contest of energy. Despite his genetic code providing him immunity against the powers of his brothers regularly.
If Vulcan tries to drain or manipulate Mjolnir (Although there's no evidence supporting him doing so to a weapon of such magnitude and it's clear his limit is below such a power source), he'd get f*cked up.
Originally posted by Magnon
I'm quite sure Mjolnir IS the better energy absorber, but that's not the point. As Vulcan's fight against the Imperial Guard demostrated, the ability to absorb energy is not an obstacle to Vulcan. The energy is inside Mjolnir, Vulcan can release it.
And I'm telling you, Mjolnir's own energy manipulation capabilities will overcome anything Vulcan can accomplish. On top of it being on a power level above the mutant.
He can drain the energy of a being that is empowered by energy but as we saw against Havok and Black Bolt, a being of sufficient skill and a certain level of power is enough to overwhelm him.
Vulcan wouldn't have to drain Mjolnir, just release a powerful lightning strike / god blast / whatever from it at Thor. Mjolnir's "super awesome energy manipulation" could even be countered by Amadeus Cho and a bit of Bannertech to smite Thor down with his own lightning.
Besides, mutants can have arbitrarily high power levels. Namely, omega mutants like Vulcan (well, some narrations say he's actually beyond omega..). Mjolnir's abilities couldn't even counter the Scarlet Witch effectively when she and Thor fought. The hammer is NOT any sort of trump card vs. mutants.
Originally posted by Magnon
Vulcan wouldn't have to drain Mjolnir, just release a powerful lightning strike / god blast / whatever from it at Thor. Mjolnir's "super awesome energy manipulation" could even be countered by Amadeus Cho and a bit of Bannertech to smite Thor down with his own lightning.
Cho has intricate knowledge about Gods and used an Adamantium conductor. And Cho redirected a lightning bolt that Thor shot at him. He didn't release one from the hammer.
Simply put, Mjolnir is far more powerful then anything Vulcan has demonstrated in terms of scope and has proven to be far beyond Vulcan's limitations in regards to its sheer raw power.
Originally posted by Magnon
Besides, mutants can have arbitrarily high power levels. Namely, omega mutants like Vulcan (well, some narrations say he's actually beyond omega..). Mjolnir's abilities couldn't even counter the Scarlet Witch effectively when she and Thor fought. The hammer is NOT any sort of trump card vs. mutants.
Which fight exactly are you talking about?
And Scarlet Witch has the potential to dig into a power far beyond Vulcan. Just because she's a mutant, that doesn't mean Vulcan is comparable. Franklin Richards can also beat Thor, that has no relevance to Vulcan either.
What a retarded thing to say.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Cho has intricate knowledge about Gods and used an Adamantium conductor. And Cho redirected a lightning bolt that Thor shot at him. He didn't release one from the hammer.Simply put, Mjolnir is far more powerful then anything Vulcan has demonstrated in terms of scope and has proven to be far beyond Vulcan's limitations in regards to its sheer raw power.
Which fight exactly are you talking about?
And Scarlet Witch has the potential to dig into a power far beyond Vulcan. Just because she's a mutant, that doesn't mean Vulcan is comparable. Franklin Richards can also beat Thor, that has no relevance to Vulcan either.
What a retarded thing to say.
There's absolutely no proof that "Mjolnir has proven to be far beyond Vulcan's limitations in regards to its sheer raw power". What a retarded thing to say. And as I have already said, Vulcan doesn't have to control ALL the power contained within Mjolnir, anyway.
The fight I'm talking about was Wanda + Havoc etc. vs. Thor. And when you are complimenting Wanda's powers, remember that she's on the team X as well. And Hope can copy her powers, and use them at enhanced levels. Vulcan should also be able to use Wanda's powers.
Originally posted by Magnon
There's absolutely no proof that "Mjolnir has proven to be far beyond Vulcan's limitations in regards to its sheer raw power". What a retard thing to say. And as I have already said, Vulcan doesn't have to control ALL the power contained within Mjolnir, anyway.The fight I'm talking about was Wanda + Havoc etc. vs. Thor. And when you are complimenting Wanda's powers, remember that she's on the team X as well. And Hope can copy her powers, and use them at enhanced levels. Vulcan should also be able to use Wanda's powers.
What are you talking about? We clearly saw Havok was able to overpower Vulcan's energy manipulation abilities:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108735/2890073-1308997-havok_vulcan3_super.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108735/2890074-1308998-havok_vulcan4_super.jpg
The second time:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/10/108735/2890029-850593-scan0013u_super.jpg
Sufficiently powerful energy sources coupled with energy manipulation are beyond him.
How about you post some evidence that suggests Vulcan can control any power inside of Mjolnir? Draining the energy out of a person is completely different then a hammer like Mjolnir, these people did not possess anywhere near the level of power or capabilities of the hammer when it came to energy manipulation. The only people to ever mess with the hammer like you're suggesting were the Enchanters who could physically inhabit the hammer, were magicians and beyond an entity like Vulcan.
How is that fight relevant? Thor was being mind controlled and did not utilize any energy manipulation abilities. And it outright said that the best Wanda could do despite tapping into the Chaos well of power (Something far beyond Vulcan) was bfr Thor (For a few moments):
http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww99/Strangerinthenight/Newer/UncannyAvengers004-003_zpse7104ce1.jpg
http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww99/Strangerinthenight/Newer/UncannyAvengers004-004_zps566aba80.jpg
http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww99/Strangerinthenight/Newer/UncannyAvengers004-005_zpsdb40af28.jpg
http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww99/Strangerinthenight/Newer/UncannyAvengers004-009_zpscb70d690.jpg
http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww99/Strangerinthenight/Newer/UncannyAvengers004-010_zps5c32fa58.jpg
I never said that the Avengers team would win. Why should Vulcan be able to use Wanda's powers? Based on what?
An übercharged Havoc being able to hurt Vulcan doesn't have any more relevance here than Franklin Richards' ability to defeat Thor. Mjolnir's energy projection ability is not THAT powerful, god blast is pretty much the strongest thing Thor can put out and beings like Juggernaut can tank it. It is the hammer's absorbtion ability which is phenomenal. But energy absorption is not a problem to Vulcan:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/4/49974/2263992-vulcan.jpg
If the energy is within an energy absorber, Vulcan can still use it. Magical energy is just like any other form of energy to Vulcan; he could easily control the advanced quantum magic of Adam Warlock, for example. Regular magic even more easily. And mutant energy powers, such as Rachel's TK /TP, were easy for him to control as well. Thus, he should be able to use Wanda's powers, too. Not that it's necessary. Wanda and Hope are quite enough, no need for a third "Wanda" in team X (or fourth, if also Rogue steals Wanda's powers).
Originally posted by Magnon
An übercharged Havoc being able to hurt Vulcan doesn't have any more relevance here than Franklin Richards' ability to defeat Thor. Mjolnir's energy projection ability is not THAT powerful, god blast is pretty much the strongest thing Thor can put out and beings like Juggernaut can tank it. It is the hammer's absorbtion ability which is phenomenal. But energy absorption is not a problem to Vulcan:http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/4/49974/2263992-vulcan.jpg
Yes it is. A momentary dip in a Star allowed Havok to completely overpower Vulcan. Mjolnir's energy projection is vastly more powerful then that level of power.
For example, a portion of the mystical energy released from two Mjolnirs simply hitting each other was sufficient to collapse the infinite time-lines (Alternate Universes) and grant the Tomorrow Man total dominance over time:
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ShatterCosmos1.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ShatterCosmos2.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/CollapseTimelines1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/CollapseTimelines2.jpg
And since we're discussing Stars, Mjolnir can burn the power and heat of a thousands Suns:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ThorvsSurtur3.jpg
The God Blast is Mjolnir's most powerful attack (Also, lol at trying to lowball by bringing up the weakest God Blast scene so far), but aside from that, it's energy reserves are ridiculously massive, far beyond the likes of anything Vulcan dealt with.
Draining the power of two Imperial Guard canon fodder, in no way means he can drain or manipulate Mjolnir's power source. Not even remotely.
Also, lmao at comparing the difference between Mjolnir/Havok to Franklin/Vulcan.
Originally posted by Magnon
If the energy is within an energy absorber, Vulcan can still use it. Magical energy is just like any other form of energy to Vulcan; he could easily control the advanced quantum magic of Adam Warlock, for example. Regular magic even more easily. And mutant energy powers, such as Rachel's TK /TP, were easy for him to control as well. Thus, he should be able to use Wanda's powers, too. Not that it's necessary. Wanda and Hope are quite enough, no need for a third "Wanda" in team X (or fourth, if also Rogue steals Wanda's powers).
Except when that energy is of a sufficient level of power such as Havok or Black Bolt. I'm not saying Vulcan can't manipulate magic. I'm saying Vulcan has not shown any evidence that suggests he can manipulate mystical energy on the level of Mjolnir which is in itself arguably more formidable at energy manipulation.
What is wrong with you in that you think Vulcan manipulating someone much weaker is evidence that he can do so to beings that are far superior to himself? Utilizing Rachel's energy (Which IIRC was when he had a power up) is no way evidence that he can do the same to Wanda who is far more powerful then the both of them put together depending on how far she pushes herself.
We saw a sufficiently powerful Havok, who is also a mutant use him as a cum rag. I doubt he could even mess with Magneto, much less someone of Wanda's level.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Yes it is. A momentary dip in a Star allowed Havok to completely overpower Vulcan. Mjolnir's energy projection is vastly more powerful then that level of power.
Nope. We have no proof of that. And we don't know if the energy metabolized by Havoc is more difficult for Vulcan to control due to the Summers' brothers resistance to each others' powers. Havoc vs. Vulcan fights are irrelevant here, just as Franklin vs. Thor would be.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
For example, a portion of the mystical energy released from two Mjolnirs simply hitting each other was sufficient to collapse the infinite time-lines (Alternate Universes) and grant the Tomorrow Man total dominance over time:
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ShatterCosmos1.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ShatterCosmos2.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/CollapseTimelines1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/CollapseTimelines2.jpgAnd since we're discussing Stars, Mjolnir can burn the power and heat of a thousands Suns:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ThorvsSurtur3.jpg
Lol. Typical asgardian boasting and over-exaggeration. What actually, concretely, DID happen when the two Mjolnirs collided was that a couple of windows broke at the nearby building. Run that through an asgardian publicist, however, and it's suddenly shockwaves through all creation on all planes of existence. If bragging determined the power levels then asgardians (Odin and Thor in particular) truly would be the supreme beings.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Draining the power of two Imperial Guard canon fodder, in no way means he can drain or manipulate Mjolnir's power source. Not even remotely.
He didn't drain those Imperial Guard members of their energy, it was the other way around: they were draining him. That didn't matter to Vulcan at all. It's all the same to him whether the energy is within him, or within some nearby person or object or power source, he can still use it. It's just that if there's shitloads of energy present, like in Mjolnir, it's safer for him not to absorb it into himself and risk overloading but instead use it directly from the source. Kinda like the bullets are most effective when fired from a gun instead of the shooter first taking the bullets out, swallowing them, and trying to vomit them at the target.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What is wrong with you in that you think Vulcan manipulating someone much weaker is evidence that he can do so to beings that are far superior to himself? Utilizing Rachel's energy (Which IIRC was when he had a power up) is no way evidence that he can do the same to Wanda who is far more powerful then the both of them put together depending on how far she pushes herself.
Nope, Vulcan didn't have any temporary power up at that time. He did become more powerful after Krakoa but that power up was permanent. Rachel seemed more powerful than Thor in their AvX encounter btw.
Originally posted by Magnon
Nope. We have no proof of that. And we don't know if the energy metabolized by Havoc is more difficult for Vulcan to control due to the Summers' brothers resistance to each others' powers. Havoc vs. Vulcan fights are irrelevant here, just as Franklin vs. Thor would be.
Yes we do, they are called feats. We've seen Mjolnir's regular energy blast easily match Galactus' Heralds, hurt being with the power Korvac, Odin etc.
Based on what? Vulcan was not affected by Havok's genetic protection and was beating him just fine. However, Havok was not able to do anything to Vulcan to harm him IIRC but despite this, was completely able to overpower him.
This makes Vulcan look even worse.
Originally posted by Magnon
Lol. Typical asgardian boasting and over-exaggeration. What actually, concretely, DID happen when the two Mjolnirs collided was that a couple of windows broke at the nearby building. Run that through an asgardian publicist, however, and it's suddenly shockwaves through all creation on all planes of existence. If bragging determined the power levels then asgardians (Odin and Thor in particular) truly would be the supreme beings.
I don't care if it doesn't sit well for you, feats are feats. Are you going to pretend that the narrator was lying to us on purpose or the Tomorrow Man's device that was created to collapse an infinite number of timelines/Universes was his imagination?
Typical Thor-hater tactics. Next only feats from the last five years will count.
Originally posted by Magnon
He didn't drain those Imperial Guard members of their energy, it was the other way around: [B]they were draining him. That didn't matter to Vulcan at all. It's all the same to him whether the energy is within him, or within some nearby person or object or power source, he can still use it. It's just that if there's shitloads of energy present, like in Mjolnir, it's safer for him not to absorb it into himself and risk overloading but instead use it directly from the source. Kinda like the bullets are most effective when fired from a gun instead of the shooter first taking the bullets out, swallowing them, and trying to vomit them at the target. [/B]
Once again: Manipulating the energies of two beings far below Mjolnir in power/energy absorption and manipulation capabilities is not prove that he can do so to the hammer.
Originally posted by Magnon
Nope, Vulcan didn't have any temporary power up at that time. He did become more powerful after Krakoa but that power up was permanent. Rachel seemed more powerful than Thor in their AvX encounter btw.
So you have absolutely no evidence to support Vulcan manipulating Wanda then?
And Thor owned Rachel when she had the Phoenix. Not to mention the scene you referenced took place during AvX where Thor was fighting Phoenix Hosts nonstop.
Anyways, so far you've only posted Vulcan messing up two random Imperial Guard members and you seem to think this is evidence that he can do so to Mjolnir? Lawlz. Sorry, but when the hammer has feats like this, you're going to have to do a lot better:
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Thor/Thor-GodofThunder011-002.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Thor/Thor-GodofThunder011-003.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Thor/Thor-GodofThunder011-004.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Thor/Thor-GodofThunder011-005.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Thor/Thor-GodofThunder011-006.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Thor/Thor-GodofThunder011-007.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Thor/Thor-GodofThunder011-008.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Thor/Thor-GodofThunder011-009.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Thor/Thor-GodofThunder011-010.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Thor/Thor-GodofThunder011-011.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Thor/Thor-GodofThunder011-012.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Thor/Thor-GodofThunder011-013.jpg
Simply put, Thor and Mjolnir are out Vulcan's league.
Got to say, Zaarko absorbing a portion of shockwaves which destroyed some windows, upturned a car and made a crater of maybe 20 feet is surely a big feat. It sent shockwaves which nobody felt because it was attuned to who held mjolnir like BRB.
Or you can assume an explosion "not seen since the big bang" can only upturn a car and make a crater 20 feet wide. Zaarko didn't even collect the energies so it could be said that he absorbed most of it, he just collected some shockwaves from it. To say Rage accuses me of leaving context behind the scans.
😂
