insane Genis Vell vs DOV spectre

Killed a bunch of magic users and forcibly ended the ninth age of magic, ushering in a new age.

Insane Genis destroyed the Prime Multiversal Space-Time Continuum
and everything in it.

Eternity didn't help Genis in any way destroying all this property (infinite universeS)
but he also didn't defend it.

Cool, but everything the infinite universeS are made up of,
Genis obliterated under his own power.

Originally posted by Sundipped

Wutzup Mr.M?

Originally posted by Sundipped

I disagree, Eternity's suicidal thoughts did contribute to Genis
being able to crush an already weakened Eternity. Genis stated
that he and Entropy combined would have problems with just being
able to even bind Eternity under normal circumstances. No way
Entropy and Genis accomplish any of this against an unrelenting Eternity.

But I also Disagree with your overall view of the situation ...

That aside though,
all those infinite universeS that make of the essence of Eternity/Infinity,
still had to be destroyed/imploded am I right?

The only significance ET plays here
is not defending the infinite UniverseS that make em up,
but the UniverseS are still made of Galaxies/Stars and so on,
and that had to be crushed down to a void.

Hello Genis ... while Entropy holds back ET. 🙂

---------------------------------------

I dislike analogies but here's one that fits:

6'10" - 300lb built MMA Pro vs a 4 year old child ... (nuts excluded)

The Pro isn't allowed to fight back or move, but I'm sure we agree
that child no matter how much time you give em, he's Never putting the Pro on the mat.

Now same scenario but put a 5'11" - 200lb boxer vs the Pro ...
and this time the Pro will go down to the mat conceivably after
one good cross/hook to the chin from the boxer.

Goodness I hope I made sense.

My point, if Genis didn't pack "the punch" ...
then he wasn't gonna get the job done.

Entropy employed him with reason.

Originally posted by Sundipped

Also Entropy said that a burst of energy would be needed to
restart but it's not clear how energy used for that purpose would
affect Spectre. Would that gun even be standard equipment?

Originally posted by Sundipped

And yes it was a visualization but it shows Eternity bonded which would mirror what actually happened amiright?

Eternity has never been shown to be so small.

I'm more inclined to believe that was Eternity's doing and not the 2
who questioned their ability to even bond him. True being able to
crush the embodiment of the universe under any condition is a feat in itself but remember Eternity is trying to make this as easy as
possible because he wants to die. He even relished in the moment
by uttering the words "at last".

I made my point above concerning why ET's death wish doesn't really help Genis.

Originally posted by Sundipped
@GK
Horrificus indeed. 👆

Denial.
Spectre>>energy interacting with Entropy to make him become new Eternity.
Don't even know how it would effect him. Spectre won't be playing rush and roulette with Genis like Entropy did.

Anyway...

****

But really, Genis blew Entropy's head off with a shot that created all sorts of goodies.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Insane Genis destroyed the Prime Multiversal Space-Time Continuum
and everything in it.

Eternity didn't help Genis in any way destroying all this property (infinite universeS)
but he also didn't defend it.

Cool, but everything the infinite universeS are made up of,
Genis obliterated under his own power

True he destroyed the prime embodiment under his own power but there is no evidence that Genis has abstract buster type ability outside of crushing an unrelenting being of that stature. He has no other feats to suggest so. ET's manifestation had to have been weakened purposely in terms of durability and defense in general.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Chillin. Hope the weekend was nice

Yeah I just kicked back for the most part.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I agree actually.
Which is why I said that they could not take out ET without ET allowing it.

But I also Disagree with your overall view of the situation ...

That aside though,
all those infinite universeS that make of the essence of Eternity/Infinity,
still had to be destroyed/imploded am I right?

The only significance ET plays here
is not defending the infinite UniverseS that make em up,
but the UniverseS are still made of Galaxies/Stars and so on,
and that had to be crushed down to a void.

Hello Genis ... while Entropy holds back ET. 🙂

Genis, while powerful, is nowhere near abstract buster level. How can a being who admittedly stated he would have a high degree of trouble trying to bind an abstract, even with the help of another concept, be on that level?

It takes immense destructive force to cause ET massive damage.
Something on the level of the UN.
Even the common manifestation can sustain a blast from an angry IG wielding Warlock.

Another example of the might it takes. A tag team 2 shot from Protege and Post Ret. Beyonder destroyed the manifestation in GOTG.

^Is Genis in this league? ❌

Originally posted by Mr Master
I dislike analogies but here's one that fits:

6'10" - 300lb built MMA Pro vs a 4 year old child ... (nuts excluded)

The Pro isn't allowed to fight back or move, but I'm sure we agree
that child no matter how much time you give em, he's Never putting the Pro on the mat.

Now same scenario but put a 5'11" - 200lb boxer vs the Pro ...
and this time the Pro will go down to the mat conceivably after
one good cross/hook to the chin from the boxer.

Goodness I hope I made sense.

My point, if Genis didn't pack "the punch" ...
then he wasn't gonna get the job done.

Entropy employed him with reason.

That would be a good analogy except there are metaphysical properties involved such as the lowering of durability that come into play with comics. That boxer can't lower his durability under his base state willingly like an abstract could. Not to take anything away from Genis but ET enabled the "punch" to do more damage than it normally would.

Originally posted by Mr Master
The gun is really inconsequential, he uses it for visual effects,
it's really an extension of his power.
He literally stated something to that affect, how it amuses him using it.

Ok cool.

Originally posted by Mr Master

I made my point above concerning why ET's death wish doesn't really help Genis.

Not really. The size of his manifestation in Captain Marvel 6 or anywhere else is a minute issue. The fact he was weakened is what should garner the attention.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
did you just say rush and roulette?

Anyway...

****

But really, Genis blew Entropy's head off with a shot that created all sorts of goodies.

Yep.
Ok so he shot a weak concept who needed help with his already weakened dad and it started a creation event. Spectre doesn't care. 😛

So, now Entropy was 'weak" too? Kinda reachin ain't cha?

Originally posted by Sundipped

True he destroyed the prime embodiment under his own power
but there is no evidence that Genis has abstract buster type ability
outside of crushing an unrelenting being of that stature. He has no
other feats to suggest so.

ET's manifestation had to have been weakened
purposely in terms of durability and defense in general.

Etenity didn't defend his essence, that's it.

This has nothing to do with Genis destroying the physical Multiverse.

Originally posted by Sundipped

Genis, while powerful, is nowhere near abstract buster level. How
can a being who admittedly stated he would have a high degree of
trouble trying to bind an abstract, even with the help of
another concept, be on that level?[/b]

Songbird witnessed Photon (Genis)
erasing every Timeline till the end of the future in one swoop,
and that was Eternity.

But again, in this case, Genis may not have been able to take down Eternity,
who is the entire Multiverse rolled in one coming at cha,
but he was able to destroy his defenseless body, a body made up of infinite UniverseS.

Originally posted by Sundipped

It takes immense destructive force to cause ET massive damage.
Something on the level of the UN.
Even the common manifestation can sustain a blast from an angry IG wielding Warlock.

Another example of the might it takes. A tag team 2 shot from
Protege and Post Ret. Beyonder destroyed the manifestation in GOTG.

^Is Genis in this league?

btw. The Beyonder and Protege didn't harm Eternity at all in that scene.

He was lying,
and faked that to trick Protege to stop advancing up the cosmic food chain.

Originally posted by Sundipped

That would be a good analogy except there are metaphysical
properties involved such as the lowering of durability that come into
play with comics. That boxer can't lower his durability under his
base state willingly like an abstract could.

Not to take anything
away from Genis but ET enabled the "punch" to do more damage
than it normally would.

My analogy though is perfect. Because Eternity just stood there,
while Genis destroyed the physical infinite Multiverse that makes him up.

Originally posted by Sundipped

Not really. The size of his manifestation in Captain Marvel 6 or
anywhere else is a minute issue. The fact he was weakened is
what should garner the attention.

I mean, if that were the case,
All reality should've fell apart when Magus Comatose the Essence of Eternity/Infinity.

Did that happen?

Nah, the physical Universe/Multiverse went on with a coconut smile.

@Sundipped
A funny thing about this incident :

Eternity instantly reformed and laughed in their face. So not even the Beyonder of that reality with his powers copied by Protege was enough to KO/Kill Eternity of that reality.

Originally posted by Mr Master
So, now Entropy was 'weak" too? Kinda reachin ain't cha?

I disagree friend. There's no mention on panel or bios that Eternity
made Galaxies and Stars and everything else withIN the Multiverse
less durable than what Galaxies and Stars are always made out of.

Etenity didn't defend his essence, that's it.

This has nothing to do with Genis destroying the physical Multiverse.

It's in Genis' potential to destroy All Realities.
The insane part is what Entropy knew made Genis peak.

Songbird witnessed Photon (Genis)
erasing every Timeline till the end of the future in one swoop,
and that was Eternity.

But again, in this case, Genis may not have been able to take down Eternity,
who is the entire Multiverse rolled in one coming at cha,
but he was able to destroy his defenseless body, a body made up of infinite UniverseS.

Entropy needed help with his weakened dad. That would be weak by abstract standards.

Of course you're not going to find anything like that in a bio. The planets, stars, etc. are all components of ET's being. It's not unreasonable to assume these same components can be manipulated to become extremely fragile. Which in turn would make him fragile as a whole. The statement "Eternity wanted to die" carries a lot of weight and gives insight on why this was so easy. If ET was only bonded but didn't want to die, do you think Genis still crushes him?

Originally posted by Mr Master
This has nothing to do with Insane Genis.

btw. The Beyonder and Protege didn't harm Eternity at all in that scene.

He was lying,
and faked that to trick Protege to stop advancing up the cosmic food chain.

The point was to show how much it takes to hurt the manifestation. So i guess you place Genis among the likes of the UN and IG and Infinites?

He didn't fake that. The manifestation suffered injury, just like when ET faced Thanos and Adam. He was destroyed but reformed.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Cool speculation. But there's no proof that's case.

My analogy though is perfect. Because Eternity just stood there,
while Genis destroyed the physical infinite Multiverse that makes him up.

Still disagree.
How can someone with the ability to crush infinite universes in the literal physical sense struggle with just binding any physical concept (for whatever reason) with the help of another concept. With that kind of power who needs help with anything? ET made this a piece of cake.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Again my friend, just cause the consciousness of the Multiverse is incognito,
doesn't soften up Stars and Planets into mushy easily crushed materials.

I mean, if that were the case,
All reality should've fell apart when Magus Comatose the Essence of Eternity/Infinity.

Did that happen?

Nah, the physical Universe/Multiverse went on with a coconut smile.

I'm looking at all components as a whole in this particular case because of the simple fact that ET wanted to die. It is all a part of him (his total being) and therefore can be adjusted and altered to suit a specific purpose. In this case, to make his totality weak to the point his death would come as easy as possile because that's what he ultimately wanted. And don't forget he was weak to begin with.

No matter how you slice it, the historical glorifying of the feat needs an asterisk beside it which was my whole point from the beginning.

Originally posted by zopzop
@Sundipped
A funny thing about this incident :
Eternity instantly reformed and laughed in their face. So not even the Beyonder of that reality with his powers copied by Protege was enough to KO/Kill Eternity of that reality.

Yeah I know he reformed. He mentioned he could do it when Adam wrecked him too but that didn't stop him from being affected initially did it?

Not only did Insane Genis have Entropy's help when he destroyed the universe/multiverse(a shared feat), but it was extremely circumstantial-- Eternity allowed it to happen. Genis later stated that had Eternity not wanted to die, he and Entropy likely wouldn't have been able to kill him. Aside from the aforementioned, the entire battle transpired off-panel-- we don't know any definitive specifics other than those I mentioned.

Regardless, if you're going to call Insane Genis a universal/multiversal power for some reason, then you need to call Phyla-Vell a universal/multiversal power as well, given that she was battling him quite evenly in issue #17. 🙂

Anyhow, Spectre wins.

^^ Entropy bound Eternity's spirit,
while Genis destroyed the physical Multiverse.

Originally posted by Sundipped

Entropy needed help with his weakened dad.
That would be weak by abstract standards.

But you call that "weak" ...
I guess current Eternity/Infinity are "weak"
since they were spawned by Entropy. 😬

Originally posted by Sundipped

Of course you're not going to find anything like that in a bio.

The planets, stars, etc. are all components of ET's being. It's not
unreasonable to assume these same components can be
manipulated to become extremely fragile. Which in turn would
make him fragile as a whole. The statement "Eternity wanted to
die" carries a lot of weight and gives insight on why this was so
easy. If ET was only bonded but didn't want to die, do you think
Genis still crushes him?

Until you produce a single scan (from Marvel) that even suggests
that when Eternity's spirit/essence is k.o'd, incognito or comatose,
this somehow produces mushy Stars & Planets that a simpleton like
Genis can erase them all across the Infinite UniverseS ...
... then we'll proceed with this part of the debate.

Until then, Genis erased the physical infinite Multiverse.

Simple.

Originally posted by Sundipped

The point was to show how much it takes to hurt the
manifestation. So i guess you place Genis among the likes of the
UN and IG and Infinites?

But actually no, I rather rank Bubonicus with the UN and IG cause he what?
Was hurting (actually killing) an Eternity M-body.

Even though Bubo got WTF stomped by Martinex and Replica. 😂

So Martinex and Replica (members of GOTG) > Eternity

See I got sarcasm too.

Originally posted by Sundipped

He didn't fake that. The manifestation suffered injury, just like
when ET faced Thanos and Adam.

He was destroyed but reformed.

Anyway, they didn't destroy anything, it was an illusion:

Protege: "Everything reverts back as if nothing's happened"

Eternity: "Indeed, Nothing has!"

Eternity even explains why "nothing's happened" in this particular scene:

[img=http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/15792544_GOTG2.jpg]

If Eternity was able to revert actions anytime he wished in this story,
then Protege wouldn't have ever been a threat.

But even this is nonsense, and what really happened is unknown.

An illusion.

Originally posted by Sundipped

Still disagree.

How can someone with the ability to crush infinite universes in the literal
physical sense struggle with just binding any physical concept (for whatever
reason) with the help of another concept. With that kind of power who
needs help with anything? ET made this a piece of cake.

Yea,
I know Reality was the Same and as strong as before when Magus comatose Eternity's spirit/Essence,
but somehow in the Genis incident, Eternity (unharmed but just wanting to die)
weakens the structure of infinite Galaxies and such into putty to be easily crushed.

Let me know when you find that evidence. (I'll even accept a Bio on this one)

Originally posted by Sundipped

I'm looking at all components as a whole in this particular case because of the
simple fact that ET wanted to die. It is all a part of him (his total being) and
therefore can be adjusted and altered to suit a specific purpose. In this case, to
make his totality weak to the point his death would come as easy as possile
because that's what he ultimately wanted. And don't forget he was weak to begin with.

So, I won't entertain this debate any further cause now it's turning into a circle.

I have proof that the Universe doesn't begin to fall apart on its own simply because
Eternity's spirit is feeling suicidal or better yet, actually freakin COMATOSE like in the Magus case.

It's incredible that Eternity wanting to die makes the infinite Multiverse weak sauce
to be crushed by less than worthy candidates

But Eternity Knocked the F out (comatose) didn't make the Multiverse any weaker,
or turn Galaxies into doe to be molded.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Insane Genis destroyed the Prime Multiversal Space-Time Continuum
and everything in it.

Eternity didn't help Genis in any way destroying all this property (infinite universeS)
but he also didn't defend it.

Cool, but everything the infinite universeS are made up of,
Genis obliterated under his own power.

Chillin. Hope the weekend was nice.

I agree actually.
Which is why I said that they could not take out ET without ET allowing it.

But I also Disagree with your overall view of the situation ...

That aside though,
all those infinite universeS that make of the essence of Eternity/Infinity,
still had to be destroyed/imploded am I right?

The only significance ET plays here
is not defending the infinite UniverseS that make em up,
but the UniverseS are still made of Galaxies/Stars and so on,
and that had to be crushed down to a void.

Hello Genis ... while Entropy holds back ET. 🙂

---------------------------------------

I dislike analogies but here's one that fits:

6'10" - 300lb built MMA Pro vs a 4 year old child ... (nuts excluded)

The Pro isn't allowed to fight back or move, but I'm sure we agree
that child no matter how much time you give em, he's Never putting the Pro on the mat.

Now same scenario but put a 5'11" - 200lb boxer vs the Pro ...
and this time the Pro will go down to the mat conceivably after
one good cross/hook to the chin from the boxer.

Goodness I hope I made sense.

My point, if Genis didn't pack "the punch" ...
then he wasn't gonna get the job done.

Entropy employed him with reason.

The gun is really inconsequential, he uses it for visual effects,
it's really an extension of his power.
He literally stated something to that affect, how it amuses him using it.

I made my point above concerning why ET's death wish doesn't really help Genis.

Nice post, intelligently broken down.

Originally posted by Galan007
Not only did Insane Genis have Entropy's help when he destroyed the universe/multiverse(a shared feat), but it was extremely circumstantial-- Eternity allowed it to happen. Genis later stated that had Eternity not wanted to die, he and Entropy likely wouldn't have been able to kill him. Aside from the aforementioned, the entire battle transpired off-panel-- we don't know any definitive specifics other than those I mentioned.

Regardless, if you're going to call Insane Genis a universal/multiversal power for some reason, then you need to call Phyla-Vell a universal/multiversal power as well, given that she was battling him quite evenly in issue #17. 🙂

Anyhow, Spectre wins.

This guy gets it. 👆

Originally posted by Mr Master
^^ Entropy bound Eternity's spirit,
while Genis destroyed the physical Multiverse.

False. ET's actual being is what is shown bonded on panel. Not his "spirit/essence". And it took both Entropy AND Genis to do it. The reenactment is exactly what happened hence the words "like this" spoken by Genisis.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Entropy can only manifest when it's time to kill Eternity,
in order to you know, Become a New entire infinite Multiverse.

But you call that "weak" ...
I guess current Eternity/Infinity are "weak"
since they were spawned by Entropy. 😬

Doesn't matter what they spawned from. The guy (Entropy) needed help with his weakened father. In this story, Eternity>>>>>>>Entropy.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Logic /reason is cute but I'm more into Marvel Comic facts.

Until you produce a single scan (from Marvel) that even suggests
that when Eternity's spirit/essence is k.o'd, incognito or comatose,
this somehow produces mushy Stars & Planets that a simpleton like
Genis can erase them all across the Infinite UniverseS ...
... then we'll proceed with this part of the debate.

Until then, Genis erased the physical infinite Multiverse.

Simple.

You're too dependent on scans that are irrelevant to the actual context. Once again, the embodiment of the entity is shown bonded, not a "spirit/essence". Genis crushed the manifestation in his hand. No one disputed what he did but I'm trying to get you to focus on the intricate details in the story. You also dodged my question.

Originally posted by Sundipped
If ET was only bonded but didn't want to die, does Genis still crush him?

Originally posted by Mr Master
I always enjoy needless sarcasm.

But actually no, I rather rank Bubonicus with the UN and IG cause he what?
Was hurting (actually killing) an Eternity M-body.

Even though Bubo got WTF stomped by Martinex and Replica. 😂

So Martinex and Replica (members of GOTG) > Eternity

See I got sarcasm too.

Actually I was serious.
What level is Genis on? He destroyed infinite universes right? Should be a walk in the park for you.

Of course Bubonicus doesn't belong. His infecting ET was a gradual process. Adam, Thanos, and the UN owned him in panels.

Originally posted by Mr Master
This claim tells me you didn't read that book friend.

Anyway, they didn't destroy anything, it was an illusion:

Protege: "Everything reverts back as if nothing's happened"

Eternity: "Indeed, Nothing has!"

Eternity even explains why "nothing's happened" in this particular scene:

[img=http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/15792544_GOTG2.jpg]

If Eternity was able to revert actions anytime he wished in this story,
then Protege wouldn't have ever been a threat.

But even this is nonsense, and what really happened is unknown.

An illusion

Oh I read it alright.
Eternity was destroyed and reformed. Then he tried to passively persuade Protege and Beyonder to surrender. Protege caught on to what he was doing and called him a liar and declared ET fearful because of that speech.
If nothing really happened then who's powers are Protege copying here?

Which boosted him to this level.

^ET reforming was the only event that transpired prior to that.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Just let me know by posting it, when you got dem scans that prove the physical
Universe/Multiverse's Galaxies/Stars/Planets and so on turns to mush
to be easily destroyed by just about anyone.

Yea,
I know Reality was the Same and as strong as before when Magus comatose Eternity's spirit/Essence,
but somehow in the Genis incident, Eternity (unharmed but just wanting to die)
weakens the structure of infinite Galaxies and such into putty to be easily crushed.

Let me know when you find that evidence. (I'll even accept a Bio on this one)

The evidence is in the context of the story. And I ask this question again. How can a being capable of crushing infinite universes (at standard mass) have trouble bonding a concept, even with assistance from another concept? More context - ET was already weakened. More context - ET can't wait to die and is TOTALLY submissive. All of this is the reason I questioned the significance of the feat in the first place. The criticism is justified.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I respect your theory, but if it's not facts from Marvel Comics, I can't accept it.

So, I won't entertain this debate any further cause now it's turning into a circle.

I have proof that the Universe doesn't begin to fall apart on its own simply because
Eternity's spirit is feeling suicidal or better yet, actually freakin COMATOSE like in the Magus case.

It's incredible that Eternity wanting to die makes the infinite Multiverse weak sauce
to be crushed by less than worthy candidates

But Eternity Knocked the F out (comatose) didn't make the Multiverse any weaker,
or turn Galaxies into doe to be molded

You're right this is getting repetitive.
If he wants to die, what difference does it make if the candidate is less than worthy? Your "proof" doesn't include the fact that no one even tried to implode the embodiment while it was in such a state. A state in which the spirit/essence was involved which is totally unrelated to this story.

Like I said earlier, if any feat needs an asterisk by it it's this one.

Originally posted by Sundipped

This guy gets it.

Observe below:

Originally posted by beatboks

Nice post, intelligently broken down.

... but seriously thanx beatboks.

Difference here is that he's right in saying this. 😛

Originally posted by Sundipped

You're right this is getting repetitive.

But since you replied with scans and all I must now oblige likewise,
lest innocent onlookers be swayed by what is imo, incorrect info.

genis easily