Originally posted by trexalfa
All the Kagutsuchi in Nocturne. They were busting billions of universes. Kagutsuchi is shit to Lucifer and YHVH.
Kagutsuchi never did that, the best feat in the entirety of nocturne was when demi fiend beat kagutsuchi and restarted time, thats it. And who said kagutsuchis shit to lucifer and YHWH?
Originally posted by trexalfa
All the Kagutsuchi in Nocturne. They were busting billions of universes. Kagutsuchi is shit to Lucifer and YHVH.
And busting billions of them? There's that many universes. But it's not like all of them are destroyed and recreated at the same time constantly. Conception occurs only when universe will be close to its demise, and we don't know how many of them are dying at once.
Originally posted by Miraijin
Aren't you a bit confused? Kagutsuchi is nothing more than build-in system in Amara universe to manage cycles of death & rebirth of universe. It's not like he's using any actual power to do that.And busting billions of them? There's that many universes. But it's not like all of them are destroyed and recreated at the same time constantly. Conception occurs only when universe will be close to its demise, and we don't know how many of them are dying at once.
Kagutsuchi is an avatar of YHVH. Its power is a very little fraction of his.
And yes, billions being destroyed and recreated at once. The scenes with the Lady in Black in Nocturne tell you everything about this.
"In the vast Amala Universe, this Vortex World is not the only place where creation occurs. Kagutsuchi rises, matures, and falls in countless other places. There are millions--no, billions of worlds that you are unaware of, and they all experience the cycle of death and rebirth. That is the way of Amala, as determined by the Great Will." - Lady in Black
This's part you're talking about. It only tells you they all experience cycle of death and rebirth. Not that they experience it all at the same time. If I said "every human experiences death"then it means we all die at once? No, just that any human will die someday.
Great Will you mean. YHWH aka the 'floating head' from SMT2 is still just an avatar. Just a loser who think too highly of himself. He needs human faith to even function, he was beaten by Mother Earth after he was low human's faith.
Kagutsuchi is pretty much useless against multiversal debates. He's just a mechanism of Amala universe. He can't extert this amount of power in crossover battle like this since by default they aren't in Amala universe.And even if the were, he can only start new cycle of the universe which meet its demise.
tl;dr this's not for a comat usage
Great Will's never have shown to take action against anyone (his avatars function independently from him), so we can't judge his power at all. And why do you bring him here at all? It's Kagutsuchi fighting if you didn't noticed.
Originally posted by Miraijin
"In the vast Amala Universe, this Vortex World is not the only place where creation occurs. Kagutsuchi rises, matures, and falls in countless other places. There are millions--no, billions of worlds that you are unaware of, and they all experience the cycle of death and rebirth. That is the way of Amala, as determined by the Great Will." - Lady in BlackThis's part you're talking about. It only tells you they all experience cycle of death and rebirth. Not that they experience it all at the same time. If I said "every human experiences death"then it means we all die at once? No, just that any human will die someday.
Great Will you mean. YHWH aka the 'floating head' from SMT2 is still just an avatar. Just a loser who think too highly of himself. He needs human faith to even function, he was beaten by Mother Earth after he was low human's faith.
Kagutsuchi is pretty much useless against multiversal debates. He's just a mechanism of Amala universe. He can't extert this amount of power in crossover battle like this since by default they aren't in Amala universe.And even if the were, he can only start new cycle of the universe which meet its demise.
tl;dr this's not for a comat usage
Great Will's never have shown to take action against anyone (his avatars function independently from him), so we can't judge his power at all. And why do you bring him here at all? It's Kagutsuchi fighting if you didn't noticed.
Oh god, here we go. The classic "only works in the setting" fallacy. In versus, we use feats. Kagutsuchi destroys universes in SMT, so can he do here. Even if he was just a system (he is an avatar), he still uses power from YHVH, and a very little fraction at that (and that stuff about the Great Will you are sprouting is just a theory based on a pretty ****ing vague fan-translation of SMT II and of Megami Tensei II. All subsequent games have implied that Great Will=YHVH).
Translations? Indeed they're terrible. That's why people speak such a nonsense, as I had played original version.
Sure we use feats, but Kagutsuchi didn't destroyed anything. He's just a process to transmigrate new order onto dying universe.
And allow me to correct myself. Great Will is still referred as a YHWH (both names apply to him), but SMT2 version is still just an avatar, despite his arrogant boasting.
And nice job ignoring rest of my post. How about you give my a prove he destroyes billions of them at the same time?
Originally posted by Miraijin
Translations? Indeed they're terrible. That's why people speak such a nonsense, as I had played original version.
Sure we use feats, but Kagutsuchi didn't destroyed anything. He's just a process to transmigrate new order onto dying universe.And allow me to correct myself. Great Will is still referred as a YHWH (both names apply to him), but SMT2 version is still just an avatar, despite his arrogant boasting.
And nice job ignoring rest of my post. How about you give my a prove he destroyes billions of them at the same time?
We see Conception taking place on screen. Later, in any of the Reason endings the Demi Fiend uses Kagutsuchi's power to recreate the universe.
And the passage of the Lady in Black does imply that number of worlds are experiencing Conception right that moment.
We only see how Conception would look like, it's not like Conception occured at the same time, just a vizualization. He does, but already dead one.
Not it doesn't. If they all would experience Conception at the same time then freaking humans wouldn't have a break. You even have this part:
"Kagutsuchi rises, matures, and falls in countless other places."
It's not like he destroys and recreates goddamn universes all the time because it's not his role. Play a game. You have a lot of mentions that energy of the universe is finite and they have to perfom Conception to reborn it. But only if energy will be low, only then Conception occurs.
Heard about Shadow Vortex? I suggest you to check it up. Because this disproves your theory too.