Does God have any moral responsibility to his children?

Does God have any moral responsibility to his children?

Human parents have a moral responsibility to protect and try to raise their children to be what we think of as good citizens. Our laws, to some extent, make parents morally and legally responsible for the actions of their children.

God, our heavenly parent, is said to create our natures. Natures can only be followed. They cannot be changed, which I think is why God is said to hate some of us even in the womb; even before we can either do good or evil. IOW, he intentionally creates those he knows will be evil. I know some will blame man’s sins on his free will and thus shift the burden of responsibility for our sins away from God but that urge to sin is controlled by the nature and inclinations that God himself puts in us. We do have free will but that does not explain why our will, will go to evil instead of good. That desire is part of the nature that God puts in us as the story of Esau shows. In a way, Esau had no choice.

If God were just one of many Gods in a God society, would that society demand that he take responsibility in the same way human society has decided that a human child’s parent must take responsibilities?

Yes we would.

The fact that God punishes or rewards us seems to indicate that he at least thinks that he has some moral responsibility; otherwise he could not morally retain the right to punish or reward. At present we have no clear picture of what heaven and hell are like. God does not provide full disclosure even though our soul is at stake. That is not justice.

Should God’s responsibility include full disclose of what our true reward and punishment is?

God did not seem to think so in Eden, where Adam and Eve knew of only the one punishment before the act of disobedience. They soon found that the one punishment became many. It was a complete surprise for them. To me, that was completely immoral of God. That is like God lying to Adam and Eve by omission.

Does God have a responsibility for the souls he creates?

And since he could insure that all come to a good end in heaven, is making sure we get there also part of his responsibility since he creates the natures we cannot help but follow?

Any good human parent with God-like powers would insure the best end for his child if he had the power of a God. I know you and I would as part of our inclination to love and protect our children.

If God does not, does that make man more responsible than God in terms of accepting responsibility for our children?

Regards
DL

We cannot think on God's level so to try to hole Him to our faulty standards is foolish.

I believe God not telling Adam and Eve every little thing about their punishment is not at all a lie. Say i said to you "hey if you kill a man you will go to prison" and you do it anyway and in prison you experience other things such as beatings, torture, rape, sickness, ect could you really say i lied cuz i did not mention other hazards you may not have been aware of?

We have free will to decide to give into temptation or not. Some do have it harder than others but in the end it's all about choice. We are all given a choice and some choose to ignore God. Even ones that try to follow God's word face temptation.

Originally posted by juggerman
We cannot think on God's level so to try to hole Him to our faulty standards is foolish.

I believe God not telling Adam and Eve every little thing about their punishment is not at all a lie. Say i said to you "hey if you kill a man you will go to prison" and you do it anyway and in prison you experience other things such as beatings, torture, rape, sickness, ect could you really say i lied cuz i did not mention other hazards you may not have been aware of?

We have free will to decide to give into temptation or not. Some do have it harder than others but in the end it's all about choice. We are all given a choice and some choose to ignore God. Even ones that try to follow God's word face temptation.

You seem to think that you cannot think as God does yet he himself says that you can. A & E became as Gods according to God in the moral sense and that means that we definitely can and do think as he does. Why, if not so, would he ask us to ---- "Test all things"
1 Thessalonians. 5:21

Step up and take responsibility instead of the usual Christian way of using their God as a scapegoat.

Your salvation is yours to earn. Not from a free pass from some God that you say you cannot understand.

If you, like God did, added a bunch of consequences to the penalty that you have warned your children about then you would be as poor of a parent as God seems to have been in Eden.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Greatest I am
You seem to think that you cannot think as God does yet he himself says that you can. A & E became as Gods according to God in the moral sense and that means that we definitely can and do think as he does. Why, if not so, would he ask us to ---- "Test all things"
1 Thessalonians. 5:21

Step up and take responsibility instead of the usual Christian way of using their God as a scapegoat.

Your salvation is yours to earn. Not from a free pass from some God that you say you cannot understand.

If you, like God did, added a bunch of consequences to the penalty that you have warned your children about then you would be as poor of a parent as God seems to have been in Eden.

Regards
DL

Yet we see there is a vast difference in knowledge between them. A child can think as adults do ie brain function, reasoning ect yet lacks the knowledge that the adult may have to fully grasp actions and results.

I don't believe i'm using a scapegoat at all

And we do have to earn it. By following God and staying away from temptation

He did not add anything as i would not have added the extra horrors that can happen in jail. They sinned so they were cast into the world. Basically you seem to believe God should have disclosed every last detail of what could/would happen and then are trying to make it seem like he lied by not doing so. Would you warn your children of every single dangerous thing that could happen everytime they leave the safety of their house or do you believe telling them to be careful because the world is full of bad people would suffice?

I don't believe that God has children.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I don't believe that God has children.

I have two. uhuh

You are not the father.

But you are a spooky ghost.

I think it is just symbolic. Just like personification. This helps us humans understand something way beyond our ability to comprehend.

Originally posted by juggerman
Yet we see there is a vast difference in knowledge between them. A child can think as adults do ie brain function, reasoning ect yet lacks the knowledge that the adult may have to fully grasp actions and results.

I don't believe i'm using a scapegoat at all

And we do have to earn it. By following God and staying away from temptation

He did not add anything as i would not have added the extra horrors that can happen in jail. They sinned so they were cast into the world. Basically you seem to believe God should have disclosed every last detail of what could/would happen and then are trying to make it seem like he lied by not doing so. Would you warn your children of every single dangerous thing that could happen everytime they leave the safety of their house or do you believe telling them to be careful because the world is full of bad people would suffice?

Not a good analogy but I will play.

It would not suffice if they were not careful and I murdered them because of it.

Like God did with A & E by keeping them from what would save their lives. The tree of life.

Is there anything in terms of disobedience that your children could do to have you kill them through neglect the way God murdered A & E?

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Greatest I am
Not a good analogy but I will play.

It would not suffice if they were not careful and I murdered them because of it.

Like God did with A & E by keeping them from what would save their lives. The tree of life.

Is there anything in terms of disobedience that your children could do to have you kill them through neglect the way God murdered A & E?

Regards
DL

It is but agree to disagree i guess.

He did not "murder" them as the word "murder" is an act between humans. God is so far above us that our laws and standards don't apply to Him. Imagine for a moment an ant tried to impose it's will/laws upon you. Silly right? Same concept except on a grander scale

He simply allowed their actions and results of said actions happen. Again if you tell your child "Don't get into cars with strangers" and one day they decided to and something bad happened how is that the parent's fault? Was God suppsed to place armed guards around the tree to ensure they didn't disobey? That wouldn't really be free will then

Of course not tho it is not neglect at all. Mortal death is not the end according to God. If i killed or caused the death of my child that would be it. Game over. But God allows his children a way back. Now if i could do something like turn them from immortal to mortal so they appreaciated life or something along those line then you'd have a point. According to God only their body would die but they could live forever with him in eternal happinss afterwards. Best neglect i've ever heard of

Originally posted by juggerman
It is but agree to disagree i guess.

He did not "murder" them as the word "murder" is an act between humans. God is so far above us that our laws and standards don't apply to Him. Imagine for a moment an ant tried to impose it's will/laws upon you. Silly right? Same concept except on a grander scale

He simply allowed their actions and results of said actions happen. Again if you tell your child "Don't get into cars with strangers" and one day they decided to and something bad happened how is that the parent's fault? Was God suppsed to place armed guards around the tree to ensure they didn't disobey? That wouldn't really be free will then

Of course not tho it is not neglect at all. Mortal death is not the end according to God. If i killed or caused the death of my child that would be it. Game over. But God allows his children a way back. Now if i could do something like turn them from immortal to mortal so they appreaciated life or something along those line then you'd have a point. According to God only their body would die but they could live forever with him in eternal happinss afterwards. Best neglect i've ever heard of

Wow. Might makes right and to hell with good moral action from your God. Ok.

So you see it as a natural consequence for God to keep his children away from the tree that would keep them alive and when they die, that is not murder.

Thanks for showing how you do not have good moral discernment.

You have nothing to teach me so we are done.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Greatest I am
Wow. Might makes right and to hell with good moral action from your God. Ok.

So you see it as a natural consequence for God to keep his children away from the tree that would keep them alive and when they die, that is not murder.

Thanks for showing how you do not have good moral discernment.

You have nothing to teach me so we are done.

Regards
DL

Way to twist my words. It's clear you have no real intrest in having an actual debate and are simply looking to troll those who don't agree with you. Strawmanning is never the way son

If you want to grow up and actually discuss this like an adult i'll be around. In the mean time look up the word "murder" for i do not think it means what you think it means

Regards
Inigo Montoya

Originally posted by juggerman
Way to twist my words. It's clear you have no real intrest in having an actual debate and are simply looking to troll those who don't agree with you. Strawmanning is never the way son

If you want to grow up and actually discuss this like an adult i'll be around. In the mean time look up the word "murder" for i do not think it means what you think it means

Regards
Inigo Montoya

I suggest that it is you who should recognize that if you deny someone what will keep them alive, it is murder.

If you need proof, go deny someone their air and see how soon you are jailed for murder.

And do not call me son, child. You have way too much to learn before taking that liberty.

Start here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGx4IlppSgU

Regards
DL

god is a creation of man so no to god and yes to parents

Assuming god is real, then no, he has no moral obligation to us. Using our own standards, adults aren't children, and can't blame god for things they need to take responsibility for, because adults are supposed to know better, whereas actual children don't.

Also, applying our own moral standards to a supreme being is highly flawed, tbh, and can't be in any way practical.

At least imo.

Originally posted by juggerman
We cannot think on God's level so to try to hole Him to our faulty standards is foolish.

Then you believe in absolute moral relativism?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Also, applying our own moral standards to a supreme being is highly flawed, tbh, and can't be in any way practical.

I don't think I'm okay with the idea of saying that people get to decide what is right and wrong simply because they're more powerful.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Then you believe in absolute moral relativism?

I don't think I'm okay with the idea of saying that people get to decide what is right and wrong simply because they're more powerful.

I'm not that okay with it either, tbh. I just don't think that I would have the same understanding of the universe or existence as a being like that, and I would be forced to at least respect his views, even if I didn't agree with them.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I'm not that okay with it either, tbh. I just don't think that I would have the same understanding of the universe or existence as a being like that, and I would be forced to at least respect his views, even if I didn't agree with them.

I feel like people who say this don't really think it through. For something trivial, sure, we'd all respect that but then that isn't dependent on them being omniscient only on the action being trivial. If a person went around committing rape and murder I doubt you'd actually respect their actions simply because they claim to be smarter than you.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I feel like people who say this don't really think it through. For something trivial, sure, we'd all respect that but then that isn't dependent on them being omniscient only on the action being trivial. If a person went around committing rape and murder I doubt you'd actually respect their actions simply because they claim to be smarter than you.

lol, I said respect their views, not their actions.

I'm not arrogant enough to believe that a supreme being should place the same value on a human life that I do. Though at the same time, I reserve the right to retain the belief in the value of that life that I place on it.