Pandora(with an unknown degree of alleged 'help' from Barry) can completely retool an entire freaking comic book company. Ion commented on his universal power a few times, but never actually did anything remotely close to that level on panel.
However, even if we assume that Ion could have preformed the same feats as ZH Parallax, Pandora's feat is still vastly greater. Aside from simply merging mainstream DC/Vertigo/Wildstorm, Pandora evidently added to the cumulative totality of said cosmology by an astronomical margin-- after all, there were a measly 52 universes in pre-Flashpoint DC; whereas there are now "several million universes" in DC(at the very least) since Pandora's revamp:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16152709/The_Phantom_Stranger_2012-_006-006.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16152710/The_Phantom_Stranger_2012-_006-007.jpg.html
Idk. I do think Pandora's feat (with help from Barry) is highly impressive, but as far as combat as concerned, I can't see her lasting very long against God Kyle at all. She's displayed peak human-ish stats (or is alluded to having them) and can't really die, but a sniper was able to briefly dispatch her with a head shot. And Vandal Savage hurt her with a sword slash (she healed it almost instantly, but she felt the pain).
Honestly, unless she really displays some WTF level shit in Trinity War, I'd go as far as to say a regular Lantern could tool her (albeit not kill her).
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Idk. I do think Pandora's feat (with help from Barry) is highly impressive, but as far as combat as concerned, I can't see her lasting very long against God Kyle at all. She's displayed peak human-ish stats (or is alluded to having them) and can't really die, but a sniper was able to briefly dispatch her with a head shot. And Vandal Savage hurt her with a sword slash (she healed it almost instantly, but she felt the pain).Honestly, unless she really displays some WTF level shit in Trinity War, I'd go as far as to say a regular Lantern could tool her (albeit not kill her).
Don't forget her impressive display against Phantom Stranger.
Originally posted by Golgo13
Don't forget her impressive display against Phantom Stranger.
What was impressive about it?
I think her guns would probably do a number on any non-"immortal" character, but she's still pretty much human stat wise. I don't see why Kyle, even as a normal GL, couldn't just render her unconscious or chuck her into space. She's certainly not warping reality as she see fits nor is she able to do so at a whim.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
What was impressive about it?I think her guns would probably do a number on any non-"immortal" character, but she's still pretty much human stat wise. I don't see why Kyle, even as a normal GL, couldn't just render her unconscious or chuck her into space. She's certainly not warping reality as she see fits nor is she able to do so at a whim.
It put him down, no? Even if it was just a few seconds or whatever. Plus, didn't PS say you can't kill beings like us? I think those guns are mystical, but we should learn more in upcoming issues.
Originally posted by Golgo13
It put him down, no? Even if it was just a few seconds or whatever. Plus, didn't PS say you can't kill beings like us? I think those guns are mystical, but we should learn more in upcoming issues.
Yeah, which is what I'm saying.
Her bullets are likely haxxed and can hurt, if not kill, most people provided she hits them in a vital area (assuming they don't instantly kill you cause of magic or whatever).
That said, she's still basically a human, albeit a skilled one. From what I read of Pandora to date, including the Trinity of Sin: Pandora issue which released today, I've seen nothing from her to suggest that in a fight she could hang with Kyle, let alone Kyle as Ion.
Originally posted by JakeTheBankShe obviously can warp reality to her whim, because she retooled the entirety of DC at the end of Flashpoint #5. And like I said above: she did far more than simply merge timelines-- she transformed DC from a multiverse, into a full-blown omniverse.
She's certainly not warping reality as she see fits nor is she able to do so at a whim.
Granted, Barry evidently played some sort of [yet unrevealed] part in said revamp, but even Phantom Stranger credited Pandora alone with reforging creation:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16154835/1.jpg.html
So even if she needed all of Barry's energies(the speed force) to accomplish that feat for some reason(which I doubt), it is still a massively uber feat on her part, and far and away superior to anything Ion talked about being able to do.
As for her guns, I do believe that they are haxxed as f*ck, and could likely one-shot any being not directly protected by God, as Phantom Stranger is. Speculation aside, they still proved sufficient to momentarily down PS:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16154836/2.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16154838/3.jpg.html
And as we now know, PS is equal to Spectre in current continuity.
...Oh and just so everyone is aware, Stranger's durability is such that not even the Spear of Destiny was able to kill him. He is literally unkillable in the New 52.
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Rant aside, Ion isn't killing her, nor is he causing ANY lasting damage to her(even IF you only believe she has peak human stats.)
Originally posted by Galan007
She obviously can warp reality to her whim, because she retooled the entirety of DC at the end of Flashpoint #5. And like I said above: she did far more than simply merge timelines-- she transformed DC from a multiverse, into a full-blown omniverse.Granted, Barry evidently played some sort of [yet unrevealed] part in said revamp, but even Phantom Stranger credited Pandora alone with reforging creation:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16154835/1.jpg.html
So even if she needed all of Barry's energies(the speed force) to accomplish that feat for some reason, it is still a massively uber feat on her part, and far and away superior to anything Ion talked about being able to do.As for her guns, I do believe that they are haxxed as f*ck, and could likely one-shot any being not directly protected by God, as Phantom Stranger is. Speculation aside, they still proved sufficient to momentarily down PS:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16154836/2.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16154838/3.jpg.html
And as we now know, PS is equal to Spectre in current continuity....Oh and just so everyone is aware, Stranger's durability is such that not even the Spear of Destiny was able to kill him. He is literally unkillable in the New 52.
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Rant aside, Ion isn't killing her, nor is he causing ANY lasting damage to her.
If Pandora was capable or willing of warping reality as she sees fit, she wouldn't have needed Barry's help to do so, nor would she be playing hell trying to destroy/imprison the Seven Sins. Why would she go on a quest to learn martial arts, mysticism, and train with various weapons if she can reality warp on a whim easily? Furthermore, it's abundantly clear she can't or doesn't warp reality in a combat setting at least based on what we have seen so far.
I agree with the guns.
Stranger was implied and shown to be pretty much as immortal as it gets in the previous continuity as well.
What makes you think Ion can't hurt her? I doubt he could kill her, but we've seen mundane weapons cause her pain until she regenerates. It would be akin to applying a no limits fallacy to assume that Ion with all the power at his disposal can't just dump her in space or overwhelm her with sheer power.
To date, she seems like a souped up version of Crimson Avenger (or perhaps Saint of Killers) with haxxed guns and high end reality warping provided she has the right plot device/context to help her out.
Originally posted by JakeTheBankMeh, until this event is over we may as well stop speculating on her reality warping ability. We know she warped reality on a massive scale, but we just don't know the particulars behind it yet.
If Pandora was capable or willing of warping reality as she sees fit, she wouldn't have needed Barry's help to do so, nor would she be playing hell trying to destroy/imprison the Seven Sins. Why would she go on a quest to learn martial arts, mysticism, and train with various weapons if she can reality warp on a whim easily? Furthermore, it's abundantly clear she can't or doesn't warp reality in a combat setting at least based on what we have seen so far.
For all I know she could have been hugely amped. For all you know she could have used most of her power to retool reality, and is now as weak as a human because of that. Hopefully these questions will be answered in the next few months.
Originally posted by JakeTheBankPandora can teleport and dimension-hop, so BFR is out of the question.
What makes you think Ion can't hurt her? I doubt he could kill her, but we've seen mundane weapons cause her pain until she regenerates. It would be akin to applying a no limits fallacy to assume that Ion with all the power at his disposal can't just dump her space or overwhelm her with sheer power.
I'm also going to assume that every member of the Trinity is equally as unkillable(they were ALL cursed by the SAME beings to LIVE with their sins, after all)-- this is a perfectly logical assertion based on what we've seen and been told thus far. Kyle isn't causing ANY lasting damage to her.
Originally posted by Galan007
Meh, until this event is over, we may as well stop speculating on her reality warping ability. We know she warped reality on a massive scale, but we just don't know the particulars behind it yet.For all I know she could have been hugely amped. For all you know she could have used most of her power to retool reality, and is now as weak as a human because of that. Hopefully these questions will be answered in the next few months.
Pandora can teleport and dimension-hop, so BFR is out of the question.
I'm also going to assume that every member of the Trinity is equally as unkillable(hence why she didn't even wince when a bullet hit her brain.) This is a perfectly logical assertion based on what we've seen and been told thus far-- Kyle isn't causing ANY lasting damage to her.
👆 to the first two paragraphs.
For a win under forum conditions, sure, I can agree. But I think if stuff such as bullets and sword slashes can cause her harm or force her to cry out in pain (even if she's immortal), I'd personally imagine a massive construct or energy blast from a GL would put her down for a tad longer than mundane and conventional weaponry, let alone from Ion.
I'd reckon they're all immortal as well, yes. As far as Pandora goes, though, based on everything we've seen so far, I don't think Kyle would kill her nor cause her lasting damage she wouldn't heal from eventually, but I do honestly think he'd be able to do more damage to her than bullets and swords.
All that said, I do find her to be an intriguing character and am curious to see how Trinity War unfolds.
Originally posted by JakeTheBankOh I believe Ion could cause her harm. However, I don't think the damage inflicted would be able to keep her down long enough to constitute a forum KO(ie. a 10-count.) It's possible, but I personally doubt it.
For a win under forum conditions, sure, I can agree. But I think if stuff such as bullets and sword slashes can cause her harm or force her to cry out in pain (even if she's immortal), I'd personally imagine a massive construct or energy blast from a GL would put her down for a tad longer than mundane and conventional weaponry, let alone from Ion.I'd reckon they're all immortal as well, yes. As far as Pandora goes, though, based on everything we've seen so far, I don't think Kyle would kill her nor cause her lasting damage she wouldn't heal from eventually, but I do honestly think he'd be able to do more damage to her than bullets and swords.
This is yet another question that will likely be answered in the next few months, though.
Originally posted by JakeTheBankI'm most curious to see what role The Question will play-- he's been entirely behind the scenes plotting at this point.
All that said, I do find her to be an intriguing character and am curious to see how Trinity War unfolds.
I really want to know who he is/what his original sin was. I literally have no guesses, atm.
Originally posted by Galan007
Oh I believe Ion could cause her harm. However, I don't think the damage inflicted would be able to keep her down long enough to constitute a forum KO(ie. a 10-count.) It's possible, but I personally doubt it.This is yet another question that will likely be answered in the next few months, though.
I'm most curious to see what role The Question will play-- he's been entirely behind the scenes plotting at this point.
I really want to know who he is/what his original sin was. I literally have no guesses, atm.
Fair enough.
Ditto on the Question. Some people have thrown out Caesar or other historical Roman figures as far as his identity goes.
