True Gog Vs The Serpent

Started by JakeTheBank3 pages
Originally posted by Golgo13
Where do you rank Gog?

Probably around the same level or so. It's a weird match up for me because they both required plot device to beat.

Originally posted by zopzop
I know but the Serpent still loses.
How ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
How ?

By getting his sh|t pushed in.

How does the Serpent lose?

You might think he was lackluster but Gog has an actual exploitable weakness in that he was rendered useless if his head was separated from the ground. And we saw Magog/Superman easily remove his head after he was knocked down.

The Serpent lost as well in a pretty meh battle but it took Thor with the Odinsword and the shadow of Twilight to retcon reality.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Probably around the same level or so. It's a weird match up for me because they both required plot device to beat.

Gog wins because he was in a far better story.

uhuh

Originally posted by ODG
This statement is almost offensive. Low Trans characters generally don't create seven Thor-level characters, or enslave Midgard, or manipulate fear on a global scale, or require the Odinsword to defeat them. Low Trans characters definitely can't shatter Cap's shield like a tortilla.

The Serpent didn't create Thor level beings, he augmented beings that were relatively close on their own. The rest of that can't be properly gauged.

Ultimately he was defeated by Thor. Doesn't matter how you slice it, that makes him sub-Skyfather in my book. A Skyfather would take one look at Thor with the Odinsword and disarm and/or kill him. Maybe he's not low-Trans...maybe that was a bit of an exaggeration, but he's no Skyfather.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
How does the Serpent lose?

You might think he was lackluster but Gog has an actual exploitable weakness in that he was rendered useless if his head was separated from the ground. And we saw Magog/Superman easily remove his head after he was knocked down.

The Serpent lost as well in a pretty meh battle but it took Thor with the Odinsword and the shadow of Twilight to retcon reality.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Gog wins because he was in a far better story.

uhuh

Originally posted by Cogito
The Serpent didn't create Thor level beings, he augmented beings that were relatively close on their own. The rest of that can't be properly gauged.

Ultimately he was defeated by Thor. Doesn't matter how you slice it, that makes him sub-Skyfather in my book. A Skyfather would take one look at Thor with the Odinsword and disarm and/or kill him. Maybe he's not low-Trans...maybe that was a bit of an exaggeration, but he's no Skyfather.

He created the weapons that in turn morphed them into Thor level beings. And the enchantment he weaved was enough to mindwash them to obedience.

He was beaten by Thor wearing armor and having the Odinsword and being "destined" to beat him at the cost of his own life aka tons of plot device and context. That shouldn't lower Serpent's stock any. He's not Odin level, obviously, but he's enough of a threat for Odin to want to act accordingly in a rather rash manner. I'd say low-Skyfather is fair.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Gog wins because he was in a far better story.

uhuh

Debatable he wins, but yes, JSA takes a dump on Fear Itself.

Originally posted by Cogito
Ultimately he was defeated by Thor. Doesn't matter how you slice it, that makes him sub-Skyfather in my book. A Skyfather would take one look at Thor with the Odinsword and disarm and/or kill him. Maybe he's not low-Trans...maybe that was a bit of an exaggeration, but he's no Skyfather.

😐

Thor with the Odinsword would decapitate Gog easily and punt him into orbit. Pretty much a lot of Skyfather level beings would be in trouble against Thor with the Odinsword.

Not to mention Loki had to retcon in a weakness into his past to give Thor the opening he needed to end it.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Not to mention Loki had to retcon in a weakness into his past to give Thor the opening he needed to end it.

That, too.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Debatable he wins, but yes, JSA takes a dump on Fear Itself.

Hopefully on Fraction's head too.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Hopefully on Fraction's head too.

Ironically, I do like his Invincible Iron Man run (which won an Eisner award) and his Fantastic Four and FF titles are fun reads, too (though I could do without the Doom retcon).

Originally posted by Cogito
The Serpent didn't create Thor level beings, he augmented beings that were relatively close on their own. The rest of that can't be properly gauged.

Ultimately he was defeated by Thor. Doesn't matter how you slice it, that makes him sub-Skyfather in my book. A Skyfather would take one look at Thor with the Odinsword and disarm and/or kill him. Maybe he's not low-Trans...maybe that was a bit of an exaggeration, but he's no Skyfather.

Sin, Thing, Titania, Grey Gargoyle and Attuma are close to Thor level? Excuse me while I laugh myself out of this thread.

No, wait. One other thing. Being defeated by Thor doesn't stop one from being a Skyfather. Thor laid Zelia low who had stolen the Odinpower and was amalgamating the Dark Gods. Thor defeated Glory. And Thor had to use the Odinsword and special armor to take down the Serpent... and it still cost him his own life. Thor w/ Belt of Strength and Odinpower shield defeated a Thanosi who was amped by Chalice of Ruins and Illumination Stone. You say any Skyfather would just easily dismiss Thor w/ Odinsword? You do remember Thor defeating Surtur with Twilight's shadow, right? So unless Surtur is not even a Skyfather in your book now...

... this is where I start laughing myself right out of this thread.

Yeah, being taken down a peg by Thor disqualifying you from the Skyfather tier would see almost the entire class reworked. Thor's taken on Skyfathers more then pretty much any other hero.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Yeah, being taken down a peg by Thor disqualifying you from the Skyfather tier would see almost the entire class reworked. Thor's taken on Skyfathers more then pretty much any other hero.

And he's killed none of them without plot devices.

Originally posted by Cogito
And he's killed none of them without plot devices.

........But he had a plot device against the Serpent, so why are you trying to knock him down a tier automatically because he was beaten by the son of Odin?

And unless you count Mjolnir as a plot device, that's not true.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
........But he had a plot device against the Serpent, so why are you trying to knock him down a tier automatically because he was beaten by the son of Odin?

And unless you count Mjolnir as a plot device, that's not true.

Why are you trying to knock him up a tier?

Look at his feats. He did very little to justify being a Skyfather. IMO he'd get his ass kicked by anyone else I'd place even in the low Skyfather range. I'd have serious doubts about his ability to win against most everyone in the higher Trans range.

I actually thought Gog's story was pretty terrible also 😛

Originally posted by zopzop
By getting his sh|t pushed in.
Based on what ?