Azazel (Supernatural) vs. Fyrus (Darbus Goron)

Originally posted by Epicurus
So you're making up stuff by claiming that Lucifer can't resurrect dead souls. What evidence do you have for such an asinine assertion?

The special magic is orders of magnitude less powerful than the magic which operates in SPN.

False. The AK has failed to kill babies, dodos and snake-faced frailties. It is nowhere near the power of the Colt, which can kill its universe's unkillables. 🙂

Completely baseless as always.

Due to special magic or circumstances protecting it not just failing based on who it was cast on.

If you can kill them they aren't unkillable, dunce.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He can't resurrect himself after he's dead, sport.

Completely baseless as always.

Due to special magic or circumstances protecting it not just failing based on who it was cast on.

If you can kill them they aren't unkillable, dunce.

So you mean to tell me that the Cancerverse creatures weren't unkillable? What an idiot.

Originally posted by BloodRain
I don't see the colt failing against Leviathans, point on lil Damien though. But I do see the younger Archangels being able to survive, if in substantial pain.

Also, that bone of a righteous person washed in the blood of the 3 Fallen thing doesn't seem to actually kill them, more like bfr them back to Purgatory.

Anyways, if it isn't a species based thing, then I am willing to bet that besides God, Death, Lucifer and Michael, Eve is the 5th being capable of resisting the Colt. The reason being that when the Winchesters went back in time to acquire the Colt in order to kill the Phoenix for its remains, they could have easily used it for attempting to take out Eve herself. But they didn't. And the implications of that are pretty obvious.

Though God seems to have a thing with locking away/banishing things instead of destroying them.

I have trouble with the first part as I can't see the big G destroying his creations, no matter how feral or destructive they may be, (Plus even if it isn't true omniscience, I'd assume he would know of this method) hence locking them up, just like with Lucifer.

Plot wise thats sound. Single issue I see is how the boys would know this. Unless Cas informed them offscreen. Hoping they expand on this info a little more, and maybe explain why the Colt is so powerful.

Edit: Snipe..

@Utrigia: It's understandable with Lucifer since he was supposed to be the favorite son.

But the Leviathans were clearly mentioned to be a danger to all of creation. Piranhas of the petridish. Such a destructive creation would've been better left dead instead of being locked away.

It seems to remind of that X-Men storyline where the Celestials locked away their creations the Exterminators because the latter went out of control and ended up becoming a Frankenstein's monster. I am willing to bet something similar happened with God and the Leviathans in SPN.

Originally posted by BloodRain
I have trouble with the first part as I can't see the big G destroying his creations, no matter how feral or destructive they may be, (Plus even if it isn't true omniscience, I'd assume he would know of this method) hence locking them up, just like with Lucifer.

Plot wise thats sound. Single issue I see is how the boys would know this. Unless Cas informed them offscreen. Hoping they expand on this info a little more, and maybe explain why the Colt is so powerful.

Edit: Snipe..

The Leviathans on the other hand were the first beasts, whose insane hunger would put a guy like Famine to shame.

I presume the Colt, like the Cambion, is one of Hell's superweapons in the war against Heaven, especially when you consider how Ruby was aware of how to create new bullets for it and even managed to upgrade it so that it no longer needed special bullets to kill supernaturals.

Edit: What do you think regarding my Eve theory btw?

Originally posted by Epicurus
@Utrigia: It's understandable with Lucifer since he was supposed to be the favorite son.

But the Leviathans were clearly mentioned to be a danger to all of creation. Pirahnas of the petridish. Such a destructive creation would've been better left dead instead of being locked away.

It seems to remind of that X-Men storyline where the Celestials locked away their creations the Exterminators because the latter went out of control and ended up becoming a Frankenstein's monster. I am willing to bet something similar happened with God and the Leviathans in SPN.

Yeah, it was just more of a observation. God from SPN just doesn't strike me as the "burn to crisp" kinda guy. I mean he locked away Lucifer, after the corruption of Eden by Lucifer he locked away Gadreel, then he locked away Death.

While I completely agree, God just strikes me as being fond of the locking away option, might have something to do with him enjoying creating not destroying. He did however make the weapon for the lesser to kill the Leviathans (or banish) seems to indicate that he knew how to destroy him, but choosed not to.

Anyway we know that the Leviathans was nowhere near the power of God (stated by Death) but yeah completely agreed on that his little science project the Leviathans got completely out of hand.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Yeah, it was just more of a observation. God from SPN just doesn't strike me as the "burn to crisp" kinda guy. I mean he locked away Lucifer, after the corruption of Eden by Lucifer he locked away Gadreel, then he locked away Death.

While I completely agree, God just strikes me as being fond of the locking away option, might have something to do with him enjoying creating not destroying. He did however make the weapon for the lesser to kill the Leviathans (or banish) seems to indicate that he knew how to destroy him, but choosed not to.

Anyway we know that the Leviathans was nowhere near the power of God (stated by Death) but yeah completely agreed on that his little science project the Leviathans got completely out of hand.

Ah well, it depends. God-Chuck was willing to get Lilith killed by clandestinely pulling the strings behind Raphael's ass, so there is an instance of God coming close to actually committing murder. Though the various deaths caused within the in-universe settings by "acts of God" like lightnings and whatnot seem to indicate that he's not above destruction and murder just for the shits and giggles.

As Chuck himself ironically said, SPN's Supreme Being is a "cruel, capricious God". The George RR Martin kind, lol.

Originally posted by Epicurus
God does love to torture and imprison instead of outright kill as we've seen with both Lucy and Gadreel. However the Angels are among his most perfect creations, so him not willing to waste them just because they forgot their place in the grand scheme of things is understandable.

The Leviathans on the other hand were the first beasts, whose insane hunger would put a guy like Famine to shame.

I presume the Colt, like the Cambion, is one of Hell's superweapons in the war against Heaven, especially when you consider how Ruby was aware of how to create new bullets for it and even managed to upgrade it so that it no longer needed special bullets to kill supernaturals.

Edit: What do you think regarding my Eve theory btw?

The fact that its Ruby calls it into question given her knife. Its possible she learnt a thing or two from the people she got it from. In all honestly its unlikely, but Colt as he was associating with demons does seem like a bit of a long shot for now.

Eve is in all honestly a possibility. We know she preceded and is above angels (Seraphs too?) and likely has a significant connection to Leviatnan. Any issues (Winchesters knowledge) is small, so I'm pretty confident with Eve being the next most likely candidate.

Currently going with God, Death, Arcangels, Eve, Cambion until something comes up.

Originally posted by Epicurus
Lucy and Gadreel have already been explained in my previous posts. Death is a whole different animal, as he's God's peer and the only thing capable of ending God, so that seems more like a case of self-preservation rather than doing it as a form of punishment.

Ah well, it depends. God-Chuck was willing to get Lilith killed by clandestinely pulling the strings behind Raphael's ass, so there is an instance of God coming close to actually committing murder. Though the various deaths caused within the in-universe settings by "acts of God" like lightnings and whatnot seem to indicate that he's not above destruction and murder just for the shits and giggles.

As Chuck himself ironically said, SPN's Supreme Being is a "cruel, capricious God". The George RR Martin kind, lol.

Yet it also seemed that God and Death had some form of understanding between them, atleast that is what I gathered from "I shall reape God in the end"

Well I agree partly, God is in some ways a dick (Castriel gets ressed again just to clean up his mess) but also caring for the human race (gets Dean and Sam the hell away from Lucifer) but again it swings back and forth. Ultimately I just feel that if God wanted the Leviathans dead they would be. Everything else that he wanted death seems to end up that way. He knew Purgatory wouldn't hold, so he made sure the beings could be send back there, if he was a true scumbag, he would have shrugged and moved on when the Leviathans broke loose.

Didn't they also say that he ruled Heaven with a just and fair hand? I admit that I haven't seen like half of the episodes from each season so my knowledge is lacking at best.

^With Bloodrain on this. Don't see him wiping out a race because he can. But again arguments can be made for both sides. He did make a option to kick the Angels out of heaven when he was gone. He always seems to have a backup plan or shall we say a way to ensure that his creations doesn't get to cocky.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Yet it also seemed that God and Death had some form of understanding between them, atleast that is what I gathered from "I shall reape God in the end"

Well I agree partly, God is in some ways a dick (Castriel gets ressed again just to clean up his mess) but also caring for the human race (gets Dean and Sam the hell away from Lucifer) but again it swings back and forth. Ultimately I just feel that if God wanted the Leviathans dead they would be. Everything else that he wanted death seems to end up that way. He knew Purgatory wouldn't hold, so he made sure the beings could be send back there, if he was a true scumbag, he would have shrugged and moved on when the Leviathans broke loose.

Didn't they also say that he ruled Heaven with a just and fair hand? I admit that I haven't seen like half of the episodes from each season so my knowledge is lacking at best.

^With Bloodrain on this. Don't see him wiping out a race because he can. But again arguments can be made for both sides.

God is a dick most of the time imo. He plays favorites with specific angels like Joshua, Metatron, Castiel etc. Instead of forgiving Lucifer, he locked him away in the Cage. He also created Hell as a prison of sort for demons, even though they were Lucifer's victims and were turned in conditions beyond their control. Point being made with Lilith, the first demon. Not to mention that Chuck's own admission of all the horrible crap he's put the Winchester bros through is basically God just saying "Yeah, I am a sadistic bastard. Watchoo gonna do about it, huh!?"

Rhetorical hyperbole imo. How can a deity whose creation is littered with injustices be capable of ruling with a just and fair hand? Not to mention the evil, inhuman piece of crap that the Old Testament is seems to indicate that either there was some major miscommunication between God and his prophets of that time period or God is a far bigger dick than any angel we've seen so far.

Not to mention that Heaven is currently in complete disarray, all thanks to the fact that God chickened out of his responsibilities and left like a pussy b1tch.

If he's the story-writer type of God, then the various genocides(including the WW2 era Holocaust) committed across the in-history of the SPNverse would be in line with him being a sadistic bastard.

Originally posted by BloodRain
He may not want to waste them, but as Cas said they are soldiers, and are treated as such by God. Then again if God does hold sentiment, wouldn't he for his first proper creations? Generally can't see him annihilating a species for any reason.

The fact that its Ruby calls it into question given her knife. Its possible she learnt a thing or two from the people she got it from. In all honestly its unlikely, but Colt as he was associating with demons does seem like a bit of a long shot for now.

Eve is in all honestly a possibility. We know she preceded and is above angels (Seraphs too?) and likely has a significant connection to Leviatnan. Any issues (Winchesters knowledge) is small, so I'm pretty confident with Eve being the next most likely candidate.

Currently going with God, Death, Arcangels, Eve, Cambion until something comes up.

I am talking about Ruby repairing the Colt, not the knife. If you recall, she not only managed to repair it, she even upgraded it so that it's magic would work with even normal bullets. To me, it seems like the Colt is among Hell's special weapons only meant to be used against Heaven under special circumstances like the Apocalypse.

Again, you're mixing species with individuals. If its individuals, then it can't possibly include all the Archangels, only Michael and Lucifer as they are respectively the strongest of their kind. If it's species based though, then Cambion and Leviathan are clearly the 2 missing pieces of the puzzle imo.

Originally posted by Epicurus
Leviathans were just a prototype though. It was basically God testing his creative powers. So I am pretty sure that wasting a species which doesn't actually serve a purpose apart from being mindlessly destructive towards the rest of Creation seems retarded imo. Or the other likely possibility is that even though he knew how to make them, he didn't know how to unmake them. He's not truly omniscient, as Death himself all but confirmed to Dean.

I am talking about Ruby repairing the Colt, not the knife. If you recall, she not only managed to repair it, she even upgraded it so that it's magic would work with even normal bullets. To me, it seems like the Colt is among Hell's special weapons only meant to be used against Heaven under special circumstances like the Apocalypse.

Again, you're mixing species with individuals. If its individuals, then it can't possibly include all the Archangels, only Michael and Lucifer as they are respectively the strongest of their kind. If it's species based though, then Cambion and Leviathan are clearly the 2 missing pieces of the puzzle imo.

Thats what I meant. She got the knife from those that used it (assumption) and with any knowledge she gathered there she used on the Colt. Because if information like that was that easy to gather, then there would be more of these weapons. Especially from the likes of Crowley who has already demonstrated his knack/preference for this (Angel Bullets). Thats why I believe theres a specific reason that Ruby, the former witch with the Demon Killing Knife, knew how to do this upgrade.

Why can't Eve be categorized as a species? Oh and Cambion as one is now iffy as Cas was apparently trying to use the Knife on him. Suggests to me that he, at least at this stage, still has a normal human/demon physiology.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Have you seen sharks? I doubt he couldn't unmake them. If peak Jesse could destroy every angle in heaven with a word, God can do so with Leviathans.

Thats what I meant. She got the knife from those that used it (assumption) and with any knowledge she gathered there she used on the Colt. Because if information like that was that easy to gather, then there would be more of these weapons. Especially from the likes of Crowley who has already demonstrated his knack/preference for this (Angel Bullets). Thats why I believe theres a specific reason that Ruby, the former witch with the Demon Killing Knife, knew how to do this upgrade.

Why can't Eve be categorized as a species? Oh and Cambion as one is now iffy as Cas was apparently trying to use the Knife on him. Suggests to me that he, at least at this stage, still has a normal human/demon physiology.

I am presuming the same reason why she was the only one entrusted with getting Lilith killed, or why only one cambion has been seen so far. I'd presume that since the knowhow behind such powerful weapons is so crucial, and since trust is something demonkind lacks in spades, the information would be entrusted to only the most radically loyal few. That or, the exact circumstances behind creating and maintaining such a weapon are so rare, that it prevents the creation of an entire arsenal of magical Hell-Nukes. Though that's just me.

Because she is more like the progenitor of a number of different species, instead of being part of one herself. Though I am willing to bet that she might've been something of a mutated leviathan, with a knack for reproducing instead of eating, which is why the others disowned her.

I don't think Cas attempting to use Demon knife is definitive proof that Jesse has demon vulnerabilities. For one, Cas clearly mentioned that his power would prevent them from containing him successfully. If he had ordinary demon weaknesses, then they could've just immobilized him with a special Devil's Trap of some kind, considering no demon on the show(not Lilith, not Alastair, not even Knights of Hell like Abaddon) have been able to escape it. Then there is the fact that being so much vastly more powerful than an angel, it is unfeasible that even the Angel Blade(let along the Demon knife), would kill him.

So that's that.

Originally posted by Epicurus
Based on what? This isn't the Pottyverse bruv, where death is final and the magic is so weak that they can't even resurrect the dead. The Resurrection Stone is the only thing which comes close, and even that isn't enough to properly count as bringing back the dead. Lucifer already told Sam that he would just bring him back if the latter tried to kill himself. Anna had to go to the pain of time-travelling in the past and preventing the Winchesters from ever being born because killing them alone wouldn't have got the job done. You've never watched a single episode of SPN based on the ridiculous crap you spout.

So you mean to tell me that the Cancerverse creatures weren't unkillable? What an idiot.

They were until Thanos stormed onto the scene.

🙂

Originally posted by quanchi112
The magic is quite exceptional compared to the lets use salt and art to keep demons in check. Lucifer is able to be killed. Just accept it. Quit being a fanboy.

They were until Thanos stormed onto the scene.

🙂

Which means that they aren't unkillable. Surfer and Nova were also taking out the Cverse denizens who breached the Fault like canon fodder. 😂

Originally posted by Epicurus
Is that why said magic can't even bring back the dead? What an awfully weak and shitty verse you love to wank to kingdom come.

Which means that they aren't unkillable. Surfer and Nova were also taking out the Cverse denizens who breached the Fault like canon fodder. 😂

😂 He did come back, sport.

They didn't kill them in the cancer verse. Thanos overrode the universe itself.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Voldemort wasn't stopped by one Avada Kedavra.

😂 He did come back, sport.

Because he was never truly dead, sport. No magic can truly bring back the dead. Dumbledore reiterates it, Hermione reiterates, heck even Snape reiterates it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
They didn't kill them in the cancer verse. Thanos overrode the universe itself.

Originally posted by Epicurus
Him getting reduced to a vapor form says otherwise, troll.

Because he was never truly dead, sport. No magic can truly bring back the dead. Dumbledore reiterates it, Hermione reiterates, heck even Snape reiterates it.

As someone once told me; "If you can kill them they aren't unkillable, dunce." In this case, this statement aptly applies.👆

Thanks for agreeing. Ak kills that part of him but due to his magic it isn't enough.

Unkillable to all but Thanos. Unkillable to the others. Context, dipshit.