Battlezone: Russell Edgington vs. Ganondorf

Originally posted by The Scenario
It's no different from your claim of "weakness exploitation" for any time Russell was less than spectacular. Fact is, the Sages hurt Ganondorf before the Triforce of Power awakened, so it was before he gained his durability. Therefore it is irrelevant to the Ganondorf in this thread, as he does have the Triforce of Power now. Similarly, the Master Sword is explicitly his weakness, no different from wood or silver for Russell. Ganondorf being hurt by a weakness hardly reflects badly on him, and we have seen what non-weakness weapons have done to him. The Light Arrows could only slow him down, and the Fused Shadows failed to harm him.

The Fused Shadows did not defeat him but that is inferior magic used against superior magic. We don't know if he was hurt to later ultimately win based off the thirteen seconds unaccounted for from the video. The Light Arrows are never stated to do anything other than slow him down because once again it's inferior magic when compared to the Triforce of Power.

Further, Midna is not as weak as you seem to think she is. Even in her imp form, she has a Fused Shadow as her helmet, and it lets her do this:

http://youtu.be/iHmXfDapEik?t=24s
http://youtu.be/2WRosjJkefM?t=10m

That Hair Hand of hers is part of the Fused Shadow.
[/B]

My point was not that Midna was not impressive at all minus her combined fused Shadows. I only meant that tk'ing this form as opposed to her monstrous multi armed form is not that big of a deal.

The second YouTube video shows off once again midway through it the weakness exploitation the Light Spirits have against descendants from the world of Twilight.

These bits are all that is required to prove my claim.

http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/p757/Scenario388/Zelda/tpmidnasattack_zps9a244301.gif?t=1376381912

Ignoring everything else, even the castle explosion, we only need this moment right here. Midna hits Ganondorf with the same attack that shattered the barrier around Hyrule Castle. That's it. Even based only on that, no castle, no timing shenanigans, only this right here, and it still proves that Russell cannot hurt Ganondorf at all.
[/B]

We see that the Light Arrows have physical forms, and they are quite sharp. That isn't pure magic. Finally, and I really feel it needs to be made clear or at least summarized, your argument of what hurts Ganondorf being "two swords and wolf's teeth" is a gross oversimplification completely devoid of any context whatsoever. So I feel this bears repeating, as many times as it takes.
[/B]

1. The Sage's Sword hurt Ganondorf before the Triforce of Power awakened in him, and before he had any Twilight powers. It is irrelevant to current Ganondorf.

2. The Master Sword is Ganondorf's explicit weakness, it is "weakness exploitation," if you will. It was created by gods and can counter the Triforce in addition to dispelling magic and being the Blade of Evil's Bane.
[/B]

2. Hyperbole aside I do believe the Master Sword has the proper magic going for it after the physical blade breached his flesh. It then dispelled his magic. Ganondorf can be physically killed though. We can't assume no limits fallacies or that he can survive from any kind of physical thrashing just because the Triforce of Power resisted one fatal wound which he never healed from. Russell can destroy his body, attack his wound which has never healed, or drain him with his fangs.

3. Wolf Link is a Sacred Beast powered by the Triforce of Courage, an artifact equal to Ganondorf's own Triforce piece, that has already shown the ability to harm evil creatures on contact.

4. ALL THREE OF THESE are magical or divine in nature, with associations of destroying evil and affecting other magic. Heck, they're all "weakness exploitation" to Ganondorf's Triforce given durability. The Light Arrows, while similar, just aren't as powerful as the Master Sword or Triforce, but they still have some small effect.
[/B]

4. I disagree. Ganondorf has amped power and magic due to his Triforce. His durability is not increased just his overall power and abilities. We clearly see physical attacks hurt him far more than energy attacks coming from weaker magics than the Triforce of Power. The Light Arrows would be more effective against a member of the Twilight outside of someone backed by the Triforce of Power. Ganondorf isn't from the world which is Hyrule's antithesis hence why he isn't as susceptible as Midna or someone else from Twilight.

I'm not saying these are stronger than a castle buster or anything, just that, because they are a weakness, they can simply bypass Ganondorf's durability in a way that the Fused Shadows or physical weapons just can't. I'm not saying these are the only things that can hurt Ganondorf, either. If you hit him with something bigger than a castle buster, it doesn't need to be holy to hurt him. All I want to get across here is that Russell does not have any holy weapons, so he must overcome Ganondorf's durability the hard way, which he is simply not powerful enough to do.
[/B]

Conversely, we know magical attacks in general are more effective against Superman. Ganondorf seems highly resistance to magical energy weapons so one can logically claim he has increased resistance or durability to magical energy weapons. So my examples of both characters are of the exact opposite here. Superman is more durable to physical attacks but has a weakness to magical physical attacks whereas Ganondorf is more durable to magical physical attacks than just physical ones.

And he tossess a massive iceberg across the room in doing so. This alone is more strength than any character on True Blood has ever shown. It would take someone picking up and throwing a car to even come close to Link's level of strength, but that still wouldn't enough. Link can use the Ball & Chain to break the same boulders that the bombs are needed for, and he demolishes them with pure strength.
[/B]

Russell has shown himself by way of feats to slap a head off, rip a spine out, palm a car, drain someone of all their blood in moments, etc. He has shown feats sufficient enough to hurt someone more susceptible to physical attacks than magical ones. Link using a ball and chain is not relevant to Ganondorf in the slightest.

Speed increases the force applied and that is something once again which equalizes this feat fest you want to turn this into. Your case rests on Link's strength feats and Midna's feats of power in comparison to Ganondorf. Russell brings speed to the table unforeseen in Hyrule. That is the equalizer on top of Russell's superhuman strength.

The fact that there is even a contest is a telling sign that Ganondorf and Link are near equal. Twilight Princess Link is one of the physically strongest Links there is, the others are usually much weaker than Ganondorf. Still, Ganondorf can win the swordlock, and the struggle establishes that they are comparable, and that puts Ganondorf above every strength feat in True Blood. It does not matter how easily Russell threw Bill, because in the end Bill weighs exactly the same as a human would, and the strength required to throw him is nothing compared to Link. Even if Link needs the Iron Boots to brace himself against a roll, he is still picking up and throw an armored monster made of rock, who also has super strength. He is still tossing a massive iceberg across a room. Link's strength is measured in triple digit tons, while Russell is throwing around a few hundred pounds.
[/B]

There is no comparison. In a direct contest of strength, Ganondorf would crush Russell so hard there would not even be pulp left. Russell needs his speed just to stay alive in this fight, because he has literally NOTHING else going going for him. Ganondorf has the strength, durability, magic, and weapon advantages, it is not possible for him to lose here. Russell has the speed, but all he can use it to do is run away.

Too bad about that inescapable barrier. [/B]

Yes, too bad indeed. Ganondorf is locking himself in against an opponent in the end he'd need to escape from. Irony.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Now let's not ignore the beginning of the video here. We see how emotional Russell Edgington is due to the circumstances. Let's first look at his words just prior to daywalking for the first time in thousands of years. Around 2:16 into the video.

" My hands are shaking. I feel like a little child. Thousands of years of night. You can't know.

^^Now let's take into consideration the gravity of the situation from his perspective. He's literally crying and his hands are shaking due to the emotional response he's having to being able to day walk after thousands of years being confined in darkness. Then as he is enjoying these precious moments of just being able to stand in the sunlight he sees Eric is burning. Eric reacts quickly catching him off guard due to the circumstances while using silver to exploit his vampire weakness. This is not the same as a standard fight.

Silver: Any contact with silver will burn and melt the surface of the vampire it touches.

One would think that faster reactions would mean faster processing speed, and therefor faster recovery from surprise. According to the given evidence, however, this would be wrong. Yes, Russell is surprised, that is what I'm saying. Russell Edgington is slower when surprised. That's the point here, I'm not trying to paint this as anyone's normal speed, just trying to establish that, when he is not prepared, Russel Edgington is no faster than a human. That is all it would take for Ganondorf to get a hold of him, and all it would take to lose here.

[...]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxQQWRHwDmM

[...]

Eric acknowledges Russell can kill him easily in a fair fight hence the circumstances or the situations in which he has attacked Russell. They were all surprise weakness exploitation attacks which caught him off guard.

"Surprise weakness exploitation" isn't really what happens in cases aside from the Franklin one. There is surprise, which clearly catches them at human speed, and then there is weakness exploitation. Vampires do not move slower when there are weaknesses involved, their surprise is purely mundane.

I don't see the relevance in this fight to this at all. You are just shoving hyperbole down my throat by emphasizing words like "sacred beast," or "divine artifact." Protecting Link from Twilight doesn't really have anything to do with his power or strength level. He can just resist this certain effect due to protective magic but this says nothing about his power level as a Wolf. Link is blessed with courage by the Triforce to face the overwhelming odds against him. Typical hero business.

Well, this really is a case of abc logic. The comment was more or less about multiple Shadow Beasts being prevented from him. He is not a warrior and is unsure about his odds against them. Again, this is nothing to write home about.

I never said that the Triforce amps Link's strength in any way, and that is not relevant here anyway. The point is that Link's body is seen to be charged with magic, and we have seen that magic harm a Shadow Beast. Because Shadow Beasts are stated to be difficult to harm physically (being resistant to bombs), and we've seen a magical force from Link harm them, it's rather simple to conclude that the Triforce of Courae allows Wolf Link to harm them more easily. Plus, there's the fact with Ganondorf vs. Link, it's Triforce vs. Triforce. Again, we know the Triforce of Courage harms dark creatures, it's just one more example of a magical weakness harming Ganondorf.

Link needs Midna's help to defeat them.
http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/Shadow_Beast

This is why they are a pest to defeat and why Midna is needed to help Link out.
If Link defeats all Shadow Beasts in a group but one, this remaining Shadow Beast will revive its fallen brethren with a piercing cry. In order to defeat them successfully, Link can transform into Wolf Link and use Midna's help to damage all enemies within a small radius.

So you see why the bombs wouldn't be as effective as it depends on the proximity of defeating them all together. That's why Link has such a huge advantage here due to Midna's assistance.

I want to note here that in the scan provided (this one) the Shadow Beasts are noted to have attacked Kakariko in instances where there was only a single beast. We know that a single beast can't revive itself, yet they are still powerful enough to shrug off bombs, and require large groups just to take one. (Given that Barnes, Renado, and the kids are apparently the only ones left, I'm guessing the gang was unsuccessful.)

Further, explosives are probably the best way to take out multiple opponents. I mean, it's an explosion. Link only needs Midna's help while he's a wolf, as Hylian Link can spin attack easier.

The bite is not stronger than a bomb. That's ridiculous. That's like saying smothering someone with your hands over their mouth and nose is more powerful than a bullet since thats always kills a person while a bullet doesn't always necessarily kill when it strikes.

The difference here is that suffocation is not the same force as a bullet. On is actual physical force, while the other is cutting off an air supply one needs to survive. In the case of a bomb and a bite, both are physical forces, one just happens to be powered by a divine artifact and the other is pure explosive damage.

The Triforce of Courage does not amp his power it amps his courage. They each embody the aspect they represent. Russell's fangs nor does his strength have to be holy to hurt him. That's ridiculous. Russell has proven himself to be strong enough based off his feats to hurt him let alone with an open wound. Abc logic does not apply. Ganondorf has never tanked a bomb to his chest of person so acting like he's impervious to this based off the effectiveness of Wolf Link's and Midna's coordinated attacks is preposterous.

All of the weapons that have harmed Ganondorf are magical in some way, whether it be from the Triforce of Courage, the Light Spirits, or the Power to Repel Evil. Further, Link being so strong actually hurts Russell's case here, as despite being super strong and wielding several of Ganondorf's weaknesses, it still took three separate fights to bring him down. Russell lacks both Link's level of strength and the holy weapons Ganondorf is weak to. Wolf Link's bite failed to kill Ganon, and the Master Sword is confirmed to have hit Ganondorf long before the final blow. Ganondorf is not exactly helpless in the face of weakness exploitation.

In 5:12 of the video we see why the light is clearly so effective against Midna or fellow descendants of her banished tribe.
"It was another world entirely. The antithesis of Hyrule, where the sun shines bright. Its denizens became shadows that could not mingle with the light."

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...255B%2Furl%255D

So you clearly see why this is more effective than when used against Ganondorf. Ganondorf is not a denizen of the Twilight Realm and can mingle with the light. This is clearly effective against beings from the antithesis of Hyrule more so than other beings.

http://youtu.be/2WRosjJkefM?t=4m43s

"It's denizens became shadows..."

The Proto-Twili were not always weak to light, it was the Twilihgt Realm that gave them that weakness. Before that point, they were simply magic users, much like Ganondorf. Even without a weakness to light, they were still "chased across the sacred lands of Hyrule and banished to another realm by the goddesses." The Light Spirits still defeated them, and the magic that would become the Fused Shadows, so their power is not really in question. The Light Arrows are a powerful weapon, and they are still unable to damage Ganondorf, though they can slow him down. While powerful, both the Light Spirits and Fused Shadows are on a lower tier than the Triforce and Master Sword.

Ganondorf is hit by slow moving attacks as well in one on one fashion. Russell Edgington was fighting against powerful vampires amongst a prepared team using modern weapons while initiating protocol in dealing with vampiric threats. That is not relevant to a one on one matchup. Russell's attention again is just on his opponent. He does not have to worry about Eric Northman and a tactical team with modern weaponry designed for vampiric weakness exploitation.

Ganondorf dodges arrows in his swordfight, Russell sands there and allows himself to be shot. It doesn't really matter what the protocol is, it's not like he was weakened or anything. I doubt flashing lights would disorient him him and the net being silver doesn't matter until it hits him. He was outnumbered and stood still so they could shoot him instead of actually escaping.

The collection of feats proves he's fast and superhumanly strong. You cannot witness him slap powerful vampires heads off, casually rip out spines from people, and casually palm cars to come to the conclusion he is not superhumanly strong. He also toys with known threats such as Eric Northman and Bill Compton. Russell knows he can kill them easily. Russell has no intel on Ganondorf and will not take him lightly. This isn't Russell going up against a confirmed weaker vampire.

Yes, his speed is something that Ganondorf cannot account for. I agree. I disagree that he lacks the sufficient strength necessary to harm or kill Ganondorf. Ganondorf can resist powerful magic which packs a punch. At no point in the game does he resist attacks of a physical nature. Two swords and wolf's teeth clearly affect him. Russell is not bringing inferior magic to the table here. Russell is bringing speed and strength which equals greater force than what has hurt or killed Ganondorf in the past. Russell can also bite into his flesh and drain him. We have seen Russell use both avenues of attack in order to kill his opponents.

I don't deny that Russell is superhumanly strong. It's just that his degree of strength, being less than a single ton typically, is absolutely pathetic in comparison to Link. Even with multi ton strength and a weapon Ganondorf is weak to, Link did not kill Ganondorf in one hit. Russell has neither of those things, so it is highly unlikely that he can do so. Russell's strength is absolutely nothing compared to what has harmed Ganondorf in the past. The Sage's sword is irrelevant after the Triforce of Power, Wolf Link's bite hurts things that resist explosives which shatter boulders, and the Master Sword is the Master Sword. Not a single one of these is purely physical. All have Anti-Evil traits that Ganondorf is weak to. The Light Arrows and Fused Shadows fail to harm him, despite showing they can deal physical damage as well.

What I am saying is that if an insect can break into a human's skin despite the strength and weight difference it is outright ridiculous to assume Russell Edgington cannot break into Ganondorf's skin looking at all the evidence of these characters.

You can't just scale something like this up and expect it to remain true. A mosquito's proboscis can fit between individual cells to get at the smaller blood cells. Stingers are near microscopic and pierce by virtue of being so tiny that strength doesn't matter. In that case it is the surface area of the tip that is important, as it is small enough to get through. Scaling up doesn't work because you're losing the main reason stingers work in the first place: their size. Insects remain small because being small is the only way most of their biology even functions. Vampire fangs and human teeth are much larger and more blunt, requiring much more strength to do the exact same thing an insect can. When it comes to them, size is what matters.

[img]Ganondorf has not disintegrated another being outside the Sage who was comprised of magic.[/quote]

There is...not really any indication of this. They may not be human, but that isn't really a reason to say they're pure magic.

Here is a video showing a group of Resistance save Link despite Ganondorf's Twilight powers being in effect.

There is no twilight in this video, and I think there may be some confusion on the point. When Ganondorf cast the barrier around Hyrule Castle, he shrouded it in twilight. When Midna broke the barrier, the light returned and twilight dissipated. In the video provided the twilight is already gone, so there is nothing to prove or dispute here. We already know that Twilight affects all creatures inside it.

Vampires are not dependent on sunlight nor is he from Hyrule who need the light from the Light Spirits. Vampires do not share the same biology as the Hylians. Pretty plain to see that with what we have covered.

Well, Gorons don't share Hylian biology either, and they are still affected despite being rock monsters. So are Zora fish people. And Bokoblins, too. Kargarocs, Deku Babas (they're plants), and everything else are affected. Don't see why vampires are exempt from this. Even Twili could be turned into Shadow Beasts.

We see that she hits him with a magical weapon comprised of energy. We know the trident is powerful magic in that it destroyed the magical barrier which surrounded Hyrule Castle. I see it as being comprised of energy which breached the magical energy barrier made of energy which shut it down. This only proves what I have been saying the whole time. Ganondorf's magic makes himself more resistant to magical energy attacks as opposed to physical ones. The Executioner's sword p, the Master Sword, and Wolf's teeth have not anywhere near the level of power required to bring down a castle or destroy a magical barrier but they clearly hurt Ganondorf or Ganon's monstrous beast form. Magical energy attacks are the wrong way to come at someone wielding the magical Triforce of Power's magic. There is no proof that Ganondorf tanked the castle falling down on top of him or that Midna's actions of this attack single handedly did so either. Physicality is the way to go against Ganondorf. [/quoe]

Light Arrows are magic charged physical objects, they failed to penetrate Ganondorf's skin. Twe Sage's Sword, Wolf Link, and Master Sword are also magic charged, but stronger. The Fused Shadows have a magic trident, a physical object. Fact is, nothing that hurts Ganondorf is physical or purely so. The reason being it's by far less effective than magic. If there are magical weapons that fail to harm Ganondorf, non-magical ones won't do any better.

[quote]The Light Arrows are made out of energy. We can clearly see that and the fact they are of a magical nature. I went on to explain in detail that the teeth and the swords while not completely comparable to wolves or swords in general still hurt him. I won't keep repeating myself at length over areas of this debate I have already gone over. They hurt him with less impressive feats than what Russell Edgington's hands have done to a body.

Magical in nature, but to say the Light Arrows are non-physical when the Light Spirits clearly are is going to need something backing it up. Take a second look at Zant vs. Lanayru and note that the Light Spirit crashes into the wall and displaces water when moving. Further, Zelda can hold the Light Arrows in a bow, and they wouldn't need to be sharp if they were just energy blasts. There's been a claim that the Master Sword's powers don't work until after it has stabbed someone, but there is no evidence to that effect and it directly contradicts the statements about it. It's a magic sword, it's Ganondorf's weakness, even in game in doesn't kill him in one hit when wielded by someone stronger than Russell will ever be. Russell has harmed bodies that don't have durability, he's not strong enough to bypass Ganondorf's tanking ability.

1. I disagree but have already explained it. We at no point see his body show invulnerability to any physical blade which comes into contact with his flesh.

2. Hyperbole aside I do believe the Master Sword has the proper magic going for it after the physical blade breached his flesh. It then dispelled his magic. Ganondorf can be physically killed though. We can't assume no limits fallacies or that he can survive from any kind of physical thrashing just because the Triforce of Power resisted one fatal wound which he never healed from. Russell can destroy his body, attack his wound which has never healed, or drain him with his fangs.

3. Yes, Wolf Link is a magical beast but clearly based off feats and portrayal as weaker than regular Link armed with his sword. The Triforce of Courage can resist the effects other magics but it does not amp his power. This Triforce grants him the necessary courage to undergo his quest. Each Triforce embodies that which it represents. Link while having more courage is able to face off against Ganondorf who has more power due to his piece. That being said neither are invulnerable to physical attacks.

4. I disagree. Ganondorf has amped power and magic due to his Triforce. His durability is not increased just his overall power and abilities. We clearly see physical attacks hurt him far more than energy attacks coming from weaker magics than the Triforce of Power. The Light Arrows would be more effective against a member of the Twilight outside of someone backed by the Triforce of Power. Ganondorf isn't from the world which is Hyrule's antithesis hence why he isn't as susceptible as Midna or someone else from Twilight.

1. Disagreeing does not change facts. Something that hurt Bruce Banner isn't going to hurt Hulk. Hurting Tony Stark is harder after he puts on the Iron Man armor. Something that hurt Ganondorf before the Triforce of Power awakened cannot be used as an example of something hurting him in a fight where the Triforce is active. Frankly, it is dishonest. Even so, immediately after Ganondorf gains the Triforce of Power, he pulls the sword out like it's nothing. It doesn't hurt him anymore. There, resistance.

2. The Master Sword is shown to dispel magic from a distance, long before the physical blade touches anything, and it is stated to cleave evil power. The claim that the Master Sword must touch something before its powers start to work is completely unsupported, and directly contradicts the evidence.

3. Wolf Link bites through the Shadow Beasts that resist bombs, and his strength is a match for Beast Ganon. Even as a wolf, Link is stronger than Russell. Plus, we see the Triforce of Courage harm a Shadow Beast as he transforms. Link's teeth have a magical component to them.

4. Again, disagreeing does not change the fact that all the weapons shown to strike Ganondorf are magical. Not a single one is purely physical, and 2 of them are wielded by someone an order of magnitude stronger than Russell anyway. The Light Arrows and Fused Shadows still fail, and trying to separate magical and physical damage is a lost cause when magic causes physical damage.

[b]Superman is more durable to physical attacks but has a weakness to magical physical attacks whereas Ganondorf is more durable to magical physical attacks than just physical ones.

If Ganondorf has a resistance to "magical physical attacks" and no examples of purely physical attacks, that is a clear indication of still resisting physical attacks. Magical enhancements do not tend to make a weapon weaker. In fact, resisting magical weapons is better than resisting purely physical weapons, and there is no purely physical weapon for you to compare this to. That means there's no example of him being hurt more by a physical weapon, so there is no argument. Ganondorf is unharmed by several magical weapons. That is a fact.

These are just more examples of Link's unquantifiable feats. Link proves he is stronger than Ganondorf. True Blood characters do not have to prove equal or so feats in strength. This is not a contest of strength. This is a fight. Superman is far stronger than the Flash. The speed of the Flash is the equalizer. So logically in a fight we look at the total picture just not unquantifiable strength feats as the end all be all factor.

Link's strength is not unquantifiable. Dangoro and Blizzeta are clearly in the double digit ton range, and Link tosses then. That's far above anything of Russell. Now, the reason I bring up this strength is fairly simple: Link has scored hits on Ganondorf with this strength, with a magical evil's bane sword. Multi ton strength with even a non magic sword is far above Russell's few hundred pounds of unarmed force. See, even with Master Sword canceling the Triforce of Power, Ganondorf is surviving strikes that would bisect a human easily. Russell has only harmed humans and vampires with human durability, and Ganondorf is physically far beyond both.

As fast as Russell is, he still can't actually hurt Ganondorf. He's what, 180 pounds moving at 200 or so mph? That's still not going to reach iceberg toss levels, much less the amount of damage a sword adds.

Well, at least I will give you credit for mentioning the speed. You left out healing factor, better reflexes, increased senses though. Russell's superhuman strength compounded by his above human perception speed will be more than enough to destroy Ganondorf's body which is being kept alive by his magic at the start of the fight. A glaring weakness exposed from the onset of their titanic struggle. It's like in nature when animals sense a weakness and pounce on it.

They're not really relevant to the fight, though. Once Ganondorf gets his hands on Russell, the vampire will be too exploded to regenerate or the Sage's Sword would prevent it. Enhanced senses and reaction time only let Russell avoid death a little longer. Once again, Russell's hands down best feat is stopping a car that had already hit the brakes, and tipping it somewhat. That is absolutely pathetic compared to what Link has done, and Link cannot defeat Ganondorf without magical assistance. It really does all come down to Russell's strength, and in the end he simply isn't strong enough to hurt the guy tanks castle busters.

Yes, too bad indeed. Ganondorf is locking himself in against an opponent in the end he'd need to escape from. Irony.

Russell needn't worry. The Twilight will take of him.

"You and me together, at last."--Russell Edgington

Summation

1.Speed-This is Russell's ultimate trump card. He's so much faster than Ganondorf or anything he's experiences this is a huge advantage. How can Ganondorf use his strength when Russell can zip behind him and around him before he can perceive what is happening.

Instantaneous Speed - the speed at any given instant in time.
Average Speed - the average of all instantaneous speeds; found simply by a distance/time ratio.

Speed is directly proportional to distance when time is constant: v ∝ s (t constant)
Speed is inversely proportional to time when distance is constant: v ∝ ⅟t (s constant)

We have seen Russell use instantaneous speed to achieve his feats. I posted this feat earlier in the debate but I want to emphasize it at the end.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DjIJ2WOHYPY
^^At the 17-18 second mark we see him cover 30-50 feet of distance and then disarming Jason Stackhouse.

3:33-3:34 in we see Russell Edgington's speed can make another fast vampire look slow by comparison. Russell uses his speed to get behind him before he can react. This does not look well for Ganondorf as he cannot account for the speed advantage. Ganondorf has no feats of reacting to anything even close to this speed.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FnJa9z_FQNQ

2. Velocity-the speed of something in a given direction.
Average speed is the rate of change of distance with time.
Average velocity is the rate of change of displacement with time.
Distance is a scalar quantity that refers to "how much ground an object has covered" during its motion.

Instantaneous speed is the first derivative of distance with respect to time.
Instantaneous velocity is the first derivative of displacement with respect to time.

I put up the definitions but they are not really necessary to my simplistic argument. Russell's force is greater due to the velocity which will be coming in the direction of Ganondorf.

3.Healing Abilities-This is another ability Ganondorf simply does not have. When gunshots to the head don't so much as inconvenience a very young vampire who heals from it quickly you know you are in trouble. This means damage accrued during the battle can be healed from. A gunshot to the head is usually fatal in human beings but to vampires it can just be referred to as a "heated" argument. Ganondorf lacked the healing abilities to his major wound which happened many years ago to this very day. Once Ganondorf takes damage it is there to stay when it is of the body damaging variety. Russell Edgington is an expert when it comes to damaging a body.

4.Superhuman Strength-This is of the superhuman level that ripping a spinal cord out is easy to pull off. Russell Edgington has strength sufficient enough to hurt Ganondorf based off of the evidence. We have seen weapons and what not hurt him far less impressive than Russell Edgington's feats. Russell Edgington can and has played with a human body like you or I can play with a small twig. Despite all of Ganondorf's strength or Link's for that matter they have never destroyed a body of flesh in this manner. There is a reason Ganondorf wields a sword as does Link. They need them.

Ganondorf couldn't just kill Link by touching him in the same manner he did against the magical Sage. That much is obvious. There is no protection either. Link clearly has to defend himself and can be killed by Ganondorf's sword or magic . I don't for one think Ganondorf will lay a finger on him but just in case you come to the conclusion he will there is no evidence he can destroy a body of flesh. Midna's body was not disintegrated either. Food for thought.

5.Perception-In the video of Eric Northman perceiving the bullet while being fired and reacting after it was shows another level of perception. In Hyrule we see nothing resembling bullet time. This is what a vampire is capable of not even half of Russell Edgington's age. Once again the older a vampire is the stronger and faster. This level of reaction is something there is no evidence Ganondorf even fathoms let alone can react to. There is no evidence since the fastest thing we see is arrows from this fictional universe. How can Ganondorf win when he cannot even perceive Russell's faster than bullet time movements. The answer is rather obvious. Ganondorf can't beat Russell.

6.In Character-The blurred lines of any debate but for me the only way to debate. Both sides are attempting to convince you of how a certain character reacts in a fight during a given situation. I emphasize the word situation for a few reasons. To me context is everything.

So from my opponents point of view Russell is arrogant and takes his superiority for granted leaving him open for mistakes. That is fine and dandy but he is leaving out the context of those situations. Russell is acting on the knowledge of his opponent. Russell knows his vampiric opponents are weaker than he is. He knows it as a fact. In the first battle against Bill he is toying with him. He was going to kill an opponent he could afford to toy with but he senses his lover Talbot has been killed. He then leaves overtaken with grief. Understandable and not relevant here as there is not a side story taking place with people he cares about the same time he is fighting his opponent.

Take for instance his death now. I have cited the actual film makers explaining that he is in fact lowering his guard on top of the fact he is high off of Faerie blood. Eric Northman is nowhere around and senses Sookie's fears as Russell is closing in no them and there is nothing the Faeries can do to stop him. Eric comes at this most opportune moment. Again, irrelevant to this debate. Firstly, Russell won't be high off of Faerie blood or ecstatic since he just drained one. Secondly, Russell is not fighting henchmen or anyone else other than Ganondorf. Thirdly, Ganondorf does not have the speed to come out of nowhere at this rate of speed. Finally, Eric used weakness exploitation which is not available in this scenario.

Conclusion-After you've connected the dots in my argument the answer is pretty clear. Russell Edgington wins. Russell can perceive at a much faster, higher level. If he is struck he can heal on his own from most attacks. He has the strength to easily rip both vampiric and human bodies apart. Think about the sheer force and strength required to rip someone's spine out or slap decapitate a vampire's head off. He does these things with minimal effort.

What good is Ganondorf's supposed strength if he can't resist someone due to the fact he cannot perceive what angle they are even coming from. Keep in mind most of his linked strength feats are Link's not his. We also know Link wins a contest of strength against Ganondorf proving himself to be stronger. The velocity Russell will be directing at Ganondorf at any given moment creates much greater force. Ganondorf has no experience with dealing with someone with this kind of speed and perception. Russell is ruthless as well and there are enough examples of him killing in a single attack to ram that point home.

Ganondorf's durability is not enough to resist Russell Edgington's velocity and strength in unison. Ganondorf has more experience against magical wielders. Ganondorf has resisted energy weapons with no hint of being defeated. That being said physical weapons with magical properties, the Wolf Link's teeth, and the Executioner's sword have clearly been more effective than the former. Without any examples of him being invulnerable to physical weapons or attacks we cannot assume he does. As I said in one of my opening posts. It is all about what you can prove. He has not proven swords bounce off of Ganondorf's skin. The force required to break into skin must be greater with duller objects than a needle or sharp teeth. Russell Edgington has faster than bullet time speed. If we look at Russell's feat of palming the car without any speed the answer smacks us right in the face. Russell can hurt Ganondorf which means kill him.

Ganondorf has never fully recovered from his attempted execution sword wound. The damage he suffers here physically can be magically resisted but there can only be so many holes in his body before he perishes. Ganondorf cannot survive decapitation. There is no proof he can. Ganondorf cannot survive having all his blood drained either. There are a multiple of ways in which Russell can physically kill him other than the one option I listed above. Lucky for Ganondorf it will be over quickly. Russell eats him.

Oh, sweet merciful ****! That was delicious!--Russell Edgington

Good god, this is longer than expected. Ya'll needed a lower post limit.

Apparently I'm judging. Give me the weekend.

I will try to have my vote in by this weekend. My clients have been sending me a lot of work. I apologize for the delay.

I am in no rush. Take your time. Whenever you are ready.

Full disclosure: I've never watched True Blood. The only thing I know about Ganondorf is what I've seen in the Zelda games. I know nothing of Zelda lore aside what's shown in games. The last Zelda game I played was Twilight Princess, about 5 years ago.

Opening posts: Both of you did a good job showing the powers of your characters. The links for vids and gifs were especially helpful. However neither side had a game-plan, so I was left basing everything off the posts.

The debate: The first back and forth was good with new points and counterpoints. The debate basically went on with the same back and forth, barring some new items, for the rest of the thread.

In character: I don't think either Russell or Ganondorf would start off going full out. From what I've seen in this thread, they'd posture, talk some smack and let things progress. But both are "bad guys", so I don't see either holding back or not using everything at their disposal to win.

Weakness exploit: Ganondorf doesn't have wood or silver and Russell doesn't have divine, blessed, mystical or magical artifacts/weapons. I think this is important to note.

Character stats: Russell seems to have a clear speed advantage. Ganondorf seems to have a clear durability advantage. Strength seems like a wash. Link had a Triforce shaped birthmark, and was chosen by the gods to destroy Ganondorf. He was given powers and weapons along the way. Russell seems exceptionally powerful, even among vampires. So Link hurting Ganondorf or Russell getting surprised seems appropriate for the plot's sake.

The fight: Russell would probably end up zipping around Ganondorf looking for an opening to deal damage. I could see Ganondorf getting increasingly frustrated and possibly making a mistake for Russell to exploit. The problem there is that I just don't see Russell dealing enough damage to Ganondorf without specialized weapons specifically designed to destroy evil. The sting, speed, evade tactic will work only for a short time. I don't think Russell could do for enough damage to get past Ganondorf's superior durability. At the end of the day, Ganondorf has shown the ability to damage/destroy large areas with strength and his "powers'. Russell's speed won't save him from that amount of power.

My vote goes to The Scenario

Haven't forgotten. Judgement soon.

Ok, sorry for the delay...

Excellent match. I'm not a huge nerd for either series, but I've played a fair number of Zelda games, and I've been an on-and-off fan of True Blood. So this match was a pleasure to read.

As most of my judgments go, what follows is a stream of consciousness as I read through the thread. My opinion may alter as the fight continues.

Initial edge to Ganondorf. That's some crazy versatility in the OP.

Quan rightly called Scenario out on a couple embellishments, including occasional amps Link gets from various items. Not everything is under his own power.

Russell is definitely faster. Quan is sticking to his guns there. Scenario doesn't have much of a counter. Strength is trickier, but I don't see it as a deciding factor.

No one is hypnotizing or possessing the other. Interesting abilities, but silly in this context.

The Zelda games are more mythological than anything...tough to find exact power levels. I don't necessarily buy the castle explosion, but I'm definitely buying Ganon's overall damage soak. It's impressive.

I have to assume both could be hurt or this is a moot fight. It's more an issue with Ganon, who may in fact have several damage immunities, but I don't see the proof.

The barrier and tk from Ganon are key points. If Scenario hadn't kept driving home the tk angle, he wouldn't have had a counter to speed. As it is, blurred speed is great and all, but a tk blast could definitely tag and/or immobilize Russell at least for a while.

In the end, I don't see Russell getting through Ganondorf's damage soak before a combo of barriers, tk, and other attacks takes Russell out. And even with healing, once he's severely hurt, the ball stays in Ganon's court unless he's dumb enough to let up on the attack until he finds a way to win. With silver, wood, and possible magic-based powers hurting him, I do think he'd eventually go down.

Vote to Scenario.

Quan actually maximized his character more. Scenario left some versatility on the table, like the intangibility in the OP, which he barely used after mentioning it. Knowing what I know now, it seems like it was an uphill battle for Quan, who made the most of his opportunity but couldn't overcome an inherently more powerful character. Video game logic didn't help, because things like disintegrating pillars by running through them is something that's incredibly hard to match in a live-action TV show.

Good job to both.

Originally posted by Badabing
Full disclosure: I've never watched True Blood. The only thing I know about Ganondorf is what I've seen in the Zelda games. I know nothing of Zelda lore aside what's shown in games. The last Zelda game I played was Twilight Princess, about 5 years ago.

Opening posts: Both of you did a good job showing the powers of your characters. The links for vids and gifs were especially helpful. However neither side had a game-plan, so I was left basing everything off the posts.

The debate: The first back and forth was good with new points and counterpoints. The debate basically went on with the same back and forth, barring some new items, for the rest of the thread.

In character: I don't think either Russell or Ganondorf would start off going full out. From what I've seen in this thread, they'd posture, talk some smack and let things progress. But both are "bad guys", so I don't see either holding back or not using everything at their disposal to win.

Weakness exploit: Ganondorf doesn't have wood or silver and Russell doesn't have divine, blessed, mystical or magical artifacts/weapons. I think this is important to note.

Character stats: Russell seems to have a clear speed advantage. Ganondorf seems to have a clear durability advantage. Strength seems like a wash. Link had a Triforce shaped birthmark, and was chosen by the gods to destroy Ganondorf. He was given powers and weapons along the way. Russell seems exceptionally powerful, even among vampires. So Link hurting Ganondorf or Russell getting surprised seems appropriate for the plot's sake.

The fight: Russell would probably end up zipping around Ganondorf looking for an opening to deal damage. I could see Ganondorf getting increasingly frustrated and possibly making a mistake for Russell to exploit. The problem there is that I just don't see Russell dealing enough damage to Ganondorf without specialized weapons specifically designed to destroy evil. The sting, speed, evade tactic will work only for a short time. I don't think Russell could do for enough damage to get past Ganondorf's superior durability. At the end of the day, Ganondorf has shown the ability to damage/destroy large areas with strength and his "powers'. Russell's speed won't save him from that amount of power.

My vote goes to [b]The Scenario [/B]

Originally posted by Badabing
An addendum to my vote: The Scenario out debated Quan. 👆

I would still like to hear the final judge's opinion.

Originally posted by quanchi112
murder is on my mind and in my heart.

Good debate.

Scenario wins 10/10

lol