Gladiator vs Solomon Grundy

Originally posted by wolverinos
so basically its a tier list made by KMC members? and you use it to decline someone else opinion? wtf?

i know perfectly fine what a herald and trans means in terms of KMC and terms of comic book community.

as for black adam and tier lists, he is a well deserved team wrecker, gone up easily against high heralds and teams consisting of low - mid heralds.
the guy is easily a high herald and there were some very good arguments people made over the web that were trying to put black adam as low trans.

I didn't use the list to decline your opinion, but when you're on KMC and you claim that someone is a certain rank in a matter-of-factly way, then it should be reflected in the list. If not, then he isn't. He might be in your opinion, but he ain't on the list.

How do you know what it means? You had never seen the list before, how do you know what KMC members put into the definition of high herald. You've been here a couple of days.

You're ignoring several factors here;

- Context behind those fights.
- The intent of those Adam's facing.
- Adam's power-level at those times.
- What goes into being a high herald.

Which site has used "Low trans" ? And what do the opinion of other comic-book boards mean here?

Using KMC tier list as an argument is awful. Debate off feats, accolades, etc not some fan-made tier list.

Originally posted by ares834
Using KMC tier list as an argument is awful. Debate off feats, accolades, etc not some fan-made tier list.

No one's using it as an argument.

Saying he can't go around claiming Black Adam is listed as high herald, 'cause he ain't.

Where did he say BA is listed as a high herald? Rather he said BA is a high herald. Which he is BTW.

Originally posted by ares834
Where did he say BA is listed as a high herald? Rather he said BA is a high herald. Which he is BTW.

Prove it.

Originally posted by h1a8
Flash was going super fast to do so (which provides astronomical kinetic energy) along with the science of the IMP too.

IMP had nothing to do with this "feat".

Originally posted by curryman
I didn't use the list to decline your opinion, but when you're on KMC and you claim that someone is a certain rank in a matter-of-factly way, then it should be reflected in the list. If not, then he isn't. He might be in your opinion, but he ain't on the list.

How do you know what it means? You had never seen the list before, how do you know what KMC members put into the definition of high herald. You've been here a couple of days.

You're ignoring several factors here;

- Context behind those fights.
- The intent of those Adam's facing.
- Adam's power-level at those times.
- What goes into being a high herald.

Which site has used "Low trans" ? And what do the opinion of other comic-book boards mean here?

you were mocking my opinion by stating it doesnt suit the list which was made up by posters.

using a list made up by users like yourself is laughable.
people should read up comics, look at the feats and decide themselves at what class the character is.
black adam is a well known and respected team wrecker, aside of that matching superman and captain marvel, flying thru spectre, ripping off amazos head with the GL ring, one shotting power girl with a thunderclap.... those are at least high herald feats right there.
and by the way, the level list is perfectly stating that someone that wrecks teams of heralds can easily be considered a low trance level being.
i personally see black adam as high herald but just saying.

i have been on KMC for couple of days as a member, but i read comics forums for some time, and i know how the overall comics community ranks the characters and by what criterias.
i didnt know however that the members here not only made a definition list to the ranks, but also placed characters.
anyway as i pointed out earlier, using a list made by users is laughable, you should read the comics and make up your own mind, you are not a parrot.

- context behind those fights? black adam just kicked some ass, unless you want to enlighted me about something?

- intent of those adam facing? fighting him, and no they didnt want to get hurt and no they were not holding back after he punched their friends guts out right infront of their eyes.

- adams power level at those times? his average kick ass mode

- what goes into being a high herald? i think the fact he matches high heralds such as superman and captain marvel daily, wrecking teams of heralds by himself, being able to fly thru spectre like a bullet and taking him down,ripping hawkgirls wings, thunder clapping power girl with easy,ripping amazos head while he has a GL ring, and many more showings at those levels clearly put black adam easily at a high herald level at least.

@wolverinos: I ended my argument with "your opinion" (OTHER THAN the fact that it IS exactly that, your opinion) because this thread is not the place to debate about Black Adam as he is not in the thread title.

Originally posted by curryman
Prove it.

He routinely hangs with Superman, has devastated teams, easily beaten J'onn...

Ultimately both BA and CM have always been portrayed as near equals to Superman.

Now if we are talking about nu52 Adam then, yeah, he is no high herald.

Originally posted by wolverinos
so basically its a tier list made by KMC members? and you use it to decline someone else opinion? wtf?

i know perfectly fine what a herald and trans means in terms of KMC and terms of comic book community.

as for black adam and tier lists, he is a well deserved team wrecker, gone up easily against high heralds and teams consisting of low - mid heralds.
the guy is easily a high herald and there were some very good arguments people made over the web that were trying to put black adam as low trans.

I'll give him mid tranny.

Originally posted by ares834
He routinely hangs with Superman, has devastated teams, easily beaten J'onn...

Ultimately both BA and CM have always been portrayed as near equals to Superman.

Now if we are talking about nu52 Adam then, yeah, he is no high herald.

You're making the same mistake Wolverinos did earlier, by ignoring the context surrounding those team-fights. You're also probably trying to credit WW3 to normal-power Adam.

Yes, and I think they are near-equal to Superman in many respects, and can probably stalemate him in fights. Doesn't really mean that they would go into the high-herald tier.

Almost all of the mid-heralds are nigh-equals to the high herald guys. There's more to the tier than that.

Originally posted by curryman
You're also probably trying to credit WW3 to normal-power Adam.

Wolverinos has claimed he was at normal levels about three times today.

Originally posted by curryman
Yes, and I think they are near-equal to Superman in many respects, and can probably stalemate him in fights. Doesn't really mean that they would go into the high-herald tier.

Almost all of the mid-heralds are nigh-equals to the high herald guys. There's more to the tier than that.

No, there really isn't. Tier is determined by a character's power. If BA's is nearly equal to Superman than why wouldn't he be high herald?

And no, the mid heralds aren't equal to high heralds.

I honestly don't see the argument for Grundy. So many times I see posters here claiming how characters with the "Superman set" are superior to tank characters and EP based characters. Well guess what? Grundy is a tank. Furthermore, he does not have the strength feats of a Gladiator, so what exactly is the argument?

Originally posted by ares834
No, there really isn't. Tier is determined by a character's power. If BA's is nearly equal to Superman than why wouldn't he be high herald?

And no, the mid heralds aren't equal to high heralds.

lmao, if a tier was equal to nothing more than a character's combat-performance or flat-out power, it would be looking very different.

Many, many of the mid-heralds have legit wins against high heralds. Like Thor's never really stood a chance against Kurse, but Kurse's still in mid-herald. Light's in low despite his destruction of Kyle Rayner, etc.

Not to mention The General...

High heralds are generally capable of performing out of their tier. Their histories ridden with insane feats and so on. You claim Black Adam's almost equal to Superman? Maybe when they fight.

Try a featwar.

Originally posted by curryman
lmao, if a tier was equal to nothing more than a character's combat-performance or flat-out power, it would be looking very different.

Many, many of the mid-heralds have legit wins against high heralds. Like Thor's never really stood a chance against Kurse, but Kurse's still in mid-herald. Light's in low despite his destruction of Kyle Rayner, etc.

Not to mention The General...

High heralds are generally capable of performing out of their tier. Their histories ridden with insane feats and so on. You claim Black Adam's almost equal to Superman? Maybe when they fight.

Try a featwar.

👆

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
I honestly don't see the argument for Grundy. So many times I see posters here claiming how characters with the "Superman set" are superior to tank characters and EP based characters. Well guess what? Grundy is a tank. Furthermore, he does not have the strength feats of a Gladiator, so what exactly is the argument?

As avatar of the Grey, he was almost unstoppable except for BFR. He was getting cut up and reformed thanks to the Grey. He was pretty much killing the planet and anything in it's way. He would kill Gladiator, IMO.

Originally posted by curryman
lmao, if a tier was equal to nothing more than a character's combat-performance or flat-out power, it would be looking very different.

"This is a GENERAL power listing. We don't care how fast, how versatile or how strong your favourite character is; it's an averaging out of power."

Originally posted by curryman
Many, many of the mid-heralds have legit wins against high heralds. Like Thor's never really stood a chance against Kurse, but Kurse's still in mid-herald. Light's in low despite his destruction of Kyle Rayner, etc.

It's based on average power, not just one win. And Black Adam routinely operates at the level. He's humiliated J'onn, stalemated Superman a few times, devastated the teen titans, beaten Kyle Rayner, etc...

Meanwhile, BA really doesn't have any low end feats that lower his average.

Originally posted by curryman
High heralds are generally capable of performing out of their tier. Their histories ridden with insane feats and so on. You claim Black Adam's almost equal to Superman? Maybe when they fight.

Try a featwar.

Some do, yes, but not all. Majestic, for example, doesn't really do anything beyond your average high herald.

Originally posted by ares834
"This is a GENERAL power listing. We don't care how fast, how versatile or how strong your favourite character is; it's an averaging out of power.".

Originally posted by ares834
It's based on average power, not just one win. And Black Adam routinely operates at the level. He's humiliated J'onn, stalemated Superman a few times, devastated the teen titans, beaten Kyle Rayner, etc...

Originally posted by ares834
Meanwhile, BA really doesn't have any low end feats that lower his average.

Originally posted by ares834
Some do, yes, but not all. Majestic, for example, doesn't really do anything beyond your average high herald.

It's about more than versus fights. Notice where Wolverine, Captain America and Batman are placed?

Originally posted by curryman
Yes. More than just VS matchups.

It's based on feats. Sure, BA may not have any memorable lifting feats but vs feats are just as applicable.

Originally posted by curryman
- This is not something a mid-herald couldn't accomplish.
- Everyone has beaten Kyle Rayner at one point. Dr.Light, Major Force, Majestic, Alexander Nero, Nefaria etc.
- This applies to most of the villains in mid-herald.. The General, Probes, Kurse,

The difference is BA averagely operates at this level. These aren't one time things for him.

And yes, I have plenty of problems with the rest of the tier listing here. For example, Ultron being listed as a low herald is absolutely criminal.

Originally posted by curryman
Majestic has tooled other heralds plenty of times.

So has BA.