Count Dooku Vs Obi Wan Kenobi(Saber duel)

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Well Anakin's strength isn't an issue here. Becaise neither of them has to deal with that.

But according to Rise and Fall of Darth Vader, the reason Dooku got Kenobi in a choke was because he simply out fought him.

That won't change too much in a pure Saber duel. Kenobi won't go down easy in this scenario but he will still go down.

Originally posted by Vensai
I'm pretty sure it was because of Dookus powerful force abilities. This is just sabers. Does Makashi have any advantage against a Form three user though?

The Rise and Fall of Darth Vader states he got Kenobi in that force choke because he was faster than Kenobi.

And if you watch that scene it makes sense because Dooku was clearly just outfighting them both at that point. It wasn't a simple case of using the Force. It was Parrying back both Kenobi's and Skywalkers Sabers, kick slamming Skywalker whilst catching Kenobi off guard with a choke.

The RotS novel suggests parity in terms of speed though.

Does it? Didn't Dooku knock Kenobi out with a blindingly fast flying kick in the novel?

And at another point Kenobi's defense is so fast that Dooku dared not even attempt an attack. And before then he moves so fast he appears to vanish to Dooku.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And at another point Kenobi's defense is so fast that Dooku dared not even attempt an attack.

True, but that was while he was fighting both of them. Perhaps his Saber defenses were too fast to breach (due to his style) but Dooku was still fast enough to kick him, or just generally moved faster than him so he could parry off his attacks and catch him off guard with a force choke or whatever.

Originally posted by Nephthys
AAnd before then he moves so fast he appears to vanish to Dooku.

Which kind of proves the whole "he's too fast for me to see" thing is clearly hyperbole in SW books. As if Kenobi's actually too fast for Dooku to even see.

Anyway the description in "The Rise and Fall of Darth Vader" seems most in line with what we see in the movie.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Anyway the description in "The Rise and Fall of Darth Vader" seems most in line with what we see in the movie.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
True, but that was while he was fighting both of them. Perhaps his Saber defenses were too fast to breach (due to his style) but Dooku was still fast enough to kick him, or just generally moved faster than him so he could parry off his attacks and catch him off guard with a force choke or whatever.

Which kind of proves the whole "he's too fast for me to see" thing is clearly hyperbole in SW books. As if Kenobi's actually too fast for Dooku to even see.

Dooku was only facing Kenobi at the time. I think its definitely more that it was just that fast, the quote is 'blade weaving through a defensive velocity so bewilderingly fast that Dooku dared not even try a strike'. Bewilderingly fast definitely makes it seem pretty fast. Furthermore, later Dooku tries to force Kenobi to disengage and jump away, but 'Kenobi met every one of his thrusts without so much as moving his feet, staying perfectly centered, perfectly balanced, blade never moving a millimeter more than was necessary, deflecting without effort, riposting with flickering strikes and stabs swifter than the tongue of a Garollian ghost viper.' Its passages like that which make me think Kenobi has more of a chance than some give him credit for.

It isn't hyperbole: '"Very well, then," the Jedi said, and shot straight upward over Dooku's head so fast it seemed he'd vanished.'

Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
I have no clue what you'r talking about. Dooku was in his peak in ROTS.

Also Kenobi might last a few minutes against Dooku in a saber fight but would have no chance of victory. Dooku would win with say mid diff.

Dude, Kenobi beat a mind****ed verson of Vader. He only stood up to Anakin because he knew his moves.

Also what do you mean by "you would say that, wouldint you".

Originally posted by Nephthys
Dooku was only facing Kenobi at the time. I think its definitely more that it was just that fast, the quote is 'blade weaving through a defensive velocity so bewilderingly fast that Dooku dared not even try a strike'. Bewilderingly fast definitely makes it seem pretty fast. Furthermore, later Dooku tries to force Kenobi to disengage and jump away, but 'Kenobi met every one of his thrusts without so much as moving his feet, staying perfectly centered, perfectly balanced, blade never moving a millimeter more than was necessary, deflecting without effort, riposting with flickering strikes and stabs swifter than the tongue of a Garollian ghost viper.' Its passages like that which make me think Kenobi has more of a chance than some give him credit for.

That's fine, but my only problem with it is that in the same novel Dooku's fast enough to knock Kenobi out with a flying kick (same in the comic).

In the movie he does use the force on Kenobi, but why's he getting the opportunity to do that when he's fighting them both off? I just think he was simply outfighting Kenobi, that's all. And if he can slam kick Skywalker I don't see any reason why he wouldn't be able to do that to Kenobi in a one on one at some point in the fight.

I do agree Kenobi will be tough to take down in a one on one pure Saber duel, but I still think Dooku will do it every time.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It isn't hyperbole: '"Very well, then," the Jedi said, and shot straight upward over Dooku's head so fast it seemed he'd vanished.'

So Kenobi leaps too fast for Dooku to follow?

Originally posted by mnat801
Dooku was well past his peak by ROTS. He was 83 when he was killed. His peak was around 40, when he was still in the jedi order. Plus Ben Kenobi was slow as hell when he was only in his fifties.

Whether Dooku was in his peak or not is of little consequence. The fact is as of ROTS Kenobi was no match for Dooku.

Kenobi has more votes than Dooku? What the heck?

''Vanished'' is just another way to say ''too fast for the eye to see''. The Rise and Fall of Darth Vader has retconned the idea that Kenobi is faster than Dooku either way.

On-topic, Dooku will win every time, but Kenobi would give him good fights.

Even if that is what it translates to and even if it is hyperbole (which I don't think it is), the obvious intent is that Kenobi moved too fast for Dooku to properly keep up with.

The Rise and Fall of Darth Vader is a) from Anakins perspective, and as I recall Anakin had just gotten a boot to the face at that point and b) is maybe on a lower tier to the RotS novel since it was line-read by Lucas.

Either way, I only said it suggested parity. Kenobi definitely isn't faster than him. The above quotes suggest he is, but Dooku taking him out and RoDV suggest the opposite. I think its a good compromise to call them about equals in terms of speed.

I don't. That the novelization was line-edited does not mean it cannot be retconned, and if you for some reason want to regard the feat in TRaFoDV as non-canon, Dooku has better speed feats in general.

Intrepid, where are my obscure Sidious quotes from lesser known sources like the galaxy guide, insider magazines, etc.

In my butt. Come and get em'!

But seriously, I haven't had time to check yet. I'll let you know if/when I find anything.

Works that are on a higher level of canonicity cannot be retconned by those that are lower than them, even if they're more recent.

I'm not saying its non-canon, merely pointing out that Anakins observations at that point are about as objective as, well as objective as someone who's just gotten kicked in the face.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Works that are on a higher level of canonicity cannot be retconned by those that are lower than them, even if they're more recent.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm not saying its non-canon, merely pointing out that Anakins observations at that point are about as objective as, well as objective as someone who's just gotten kicked in the face.

Canon.

Hmmm, well his memory is still suspect after getting kicked like that.

The two droids fired at Obi-Wan, but he batted their fired energy bolts back at them and cut them down as he moved fast for Dooku. Unfortunately, Dooku moved faster, extending his left hand toward Obi-Wan as he used the Force to lift the Jedi off his feet while at the same time constricting his throat. As Obi-Wan gasped, Anakin swung at Dooku from behind, but Dooku kicked Anakin's stomach with his left foot, smashing the young Jedi against a nearby wall.