Originally posted by Stigma
Nah.RotS Sidious > Orbalisk Bane by canon
Mace + Vaapad + Shatterpoint > RotS Sidious
ergo:
Mace > Orbalisk Bane
/thread. 😎
It isn't really as simple as that. Even if Sidious is more powerful than Bane and is the Most Powerful Sith, that doesn't mean he's superior in all aspects. Bane has strengths that Sidious doesn't that may allow him to beat Windu. The Orbalsik armor for example gives his body 80% protection to Windu's saber, which is a huge boost to his ability in lightsaber combat. Intrepids points on the other page are accurate.
Originally posted by Nephthys\
It isn't really as simple as that. Even if Sidious is more powerful than Bane and is the Most Powerful Sith, that doesn't mean he's superior in all aspects. Bane has strengths that Sidious doesn't that may allow him to beat Windu. The Orbalsik armor for example gives his body 80% proteronie to Windu's saber, which is a huge boost to his ability in lightsaber combat. Intrepids points on the other page are accurate.
What I meant is that in a strict duel Windu withstood Sidious’s most potent attack and matched (and eventually overpowered Sids in sabers).
I don’t see how Bane can bring any more offensive power to the table. Has he more powerful FL that Sids?, is he batter in sabers than Sids? Is he faster than Sids? If not, offensively he will not overcome Windu.
But I grant you that Orbalisks will be a major obstacle for Windu to overcome Bane, hmm... unless Windu turns Bane’s FL at him (like he did to Sids) than Orbalisk is fried and so is Bane.
Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
You are a Windu fanboy buddy.
Which is why I call him a dumbass in our "did he throw the fight" fiasco?
You say Windu>everyone but like 1-2 people buddy.
I say that about Luke as well. I guess I'm a Skywalker fanboy. And a Yoda fanboy. And even a Palpatine, Abeloth and Zonama Sekot fanboy.
It's an observation based on the facts, Mr. Ad Hominem.
Palpatine>>>>Windu accept it buddy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mu_XLDlDWLQ
Here, we see Mace Windu defeating Palpatine.
You are the fanboy if you wish to assert without evidence that the guy on his ass at the end is somehow winning.
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Originally posted by noitseuq
In Shatterpoint it's noted that all Jedi possess the ability to detect shatterpoints and that it simply comes more naturally to Mace Windu; what it might take others minutes to do, Mace can do in an instant. Mace Windu possesses a natural talent with the ability but otherwise it would appear to be a pretty common technique, and Bane was shown using something that appeared to resemble it in his fight with Sirak. Given that soon after he first obtained the orbalisks he desperately wanted to get rid of them and literally spent months trying, why are you so certain they even possess a shatterpoint or a critical weakness at all in the first place (aside from electricity of course which was an obvious no go)?
Uh, I'd like to see some evidence that "all" Jedi know shatterpoint, because in most of the literature it's made clear that the technique is extremely rare. Luke Skywalker has to train Jaina in the art, who had earlier been stupefied by Caedus's use of it.
So perhaps all Jedi can sense weaknesses in a sense, but they can't do so in the same manner that Windu and other masters of the actual technique can.
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Originally posted by Nephthys
It isn't really as simple as that. Even if Sidious is more powerful than Bane and is the Most Powerful Sith, that doesn't mean he's superior in all aspects. Bane has strengths that Sidious doesn't that may allow him to beat Windu. The Orbalsik armor for example gives his body 80% protection to Windu's saber, which is a huge boost to his ability in lightsaber combat. Intrepids points on the other page are accurate.
Shatterpoint and vaapad will neutralize the armor's most obvious advantages. We should remember that Bane's head and, IIRC, his hands are still vulnerable, and in the vast majority of duels these are actually where the incapacitating hits are landed.
And, even if Bane's orbalisks are too much for Windu to handle, the trio are going to take out Zannah, at which point Bane can't hope to pull a Sidious can take them together.
I know, but that in itself makes shatterpoint kind of, heh, pointless since he's going to go for Banes head and wrists anyway so he doesn't need it. And Bane only needs to protect those parts, which he will do regardless of shatterpoint.
The trio are borderline non-factors to Bane. And Zannah can likely get one or 2 of them anyway.
Originally posted by Nephthys
The trio are borderline non-factors to Bane. And Zannah can likely get one or 2 of them anyway.
Uh...Kit Fisto > Obi Wan throughout much of the clone wars. That Palpatine can pull of a haxx and take them out doesn't necessarily mean that they are "borderline non-factors" to Bane, who, let's be honest, has never demonstrated power on the level of Darth Sidious.
Additionally, in the novelization's account of events, Palpatine's haxxed kill-streak succeeds largely because Windu hasn't sunken into vaapad yet, but once the fight has already been going on, he's less likely to be able to salvage a victory if Zannah falls.
Uh, I'd like to see some evidence that "all" Jedi know shatterpoint, because in most of the literature it's made clear that the technique is extremely rare. Luke Skywalker has to train Jaina in the art, who had earlier been stupefied by Caedus's use of it.So perhaps all Jedi can sense weaknesses in a sense, but they can't do so in the same manner that Windu and other masters of the actual technique can.
Page 12 of Shatterpoint:
"I can see shatterpoints.
The sense is not sight, but see is the closest word Basic has for it: it is a perception, a feel of how what I look upon fits into the Force, and how the Force binds it to itself and to everything else. I was six or seven standard years old—well into my training in the Jedi Temple—before I realized that other students, full-grown Jedi Knights, even wise Masters, could sense such connections only with difficulty, and only with concentration and practice. The Force shows me strengths and weaknesses, hidden flaws and unexpected uses. It shows me vectors of stress that squeeze or stretch, torque or shear; it shows me how patterns of these vectors intersect to form the matrix of reality."
The difference is that the ability comes much more easily and quickly to Mace Windu and a few others, but the extent of the ability is the same.
Originally posted by noitseuq
Page 12 of Shatterpoint:"I can see shatterpoints.
The sense is not sight, but see is the closest word Basic has for it: it is a perception, a feel of how what I look upon fits into the Force, and how the Force binds it to itself and to everything else. I was six or seven standard years old—well into my training in the Jedi Temple—before I realized that other students, full-grown Jedi Knights, even wise Masters, could sense such connections only with difficulty, and only with concentration and practice. The Force shows me strengths and weaknesses, hidden flaws and unexpected uses. It shows me vectors of stress that squeeze or stretch, torque or shear; it shows me how patterns of these vectors intersect to form the matrix of reality."
The difference is that the ability comes much more easily and quickly to Mace Windu and a few others, but the extent of the ability is the same.
Interesting.