Magneto and Xavier vs Loki and Dr.Doom

Originally posted by zopzop
I know I'm just saying a guy known to laugh off TP was made a fool of by Prof X along with two entire teams of heroes and PF Avatar.

If Prof X could do that to the heavy hitters in that lineup, Loki is going down.

Disagree entirely. Thor has some good showings against tp and some bad ones. He's hardly been a sure thing. But show me Loki being telepathically dominated...ever. Frankly, I think either one of those two could shield both from telepathic assault. Even if Loki doesn't have tp defense (he most assuredly does), there's Doom's own machinations to contend with. And he knows Xavier, so one of the first things that would happen would be to prevent any intrusion.

And I didn't even have to resort to the whiny complaints of lowballing Thor that seem to hover around him these days. There may be a team-induced PIS argument in there to add to my own reasoning, but I have no desire to pursue the possibility.

About Thor, one thing is endure against TP, in a direct assault, like he did against Emma Frost PF5 or Moondragon (i dont think they so weaker than Xavier in TP)

Other thing is a surprise attack (or at least it is a way to explain that scene).

Other way, you have to assume Xaver >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Emma Frost PF5 and Moondragon.

Originally posted by Digi
Disagree entirely. Thor has some good showings against tp and some bad ones. He's hardly been a sure thing. But show me Loki being telepathically dominated...ever. Frankly, I think either one of those two could shield both from telepathic assault. Even if Loki doesn't have tp defense (he most assuredly does), there's Doom's own machinations to contend with. And he knows Xavier, so one of the first things that would happen would be to prevent any intrusion.

And I didn't even have to resort to the whiny complaints of lowballing Thor that seem to hover around him these days. There may be a team-induced PIS argument in there to add to my own reasoning, but I have no desire to pursue the possibility.

Yet Xavier instantly shut down their minds as well as P5 Namor's. What are Loki's best TP feats because I'm almost 100% sure Xavier's sh|t all over them.

And if you assume Xavier is so much stronger than Emma Frost PF5 and Moondragon, who said Doom can endure against his TP as well ?

You know, the Enchantress was able to shield the minds of all the villians in the original Secret War from Xaviers power (and did it on a whim)...

If she can do it, then I have no doubt that Loki could do it as well...

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
And if you assume Xavier is so much stronger than Emma Frost PF5 and Moondragon, who said Doom can endure against his TP as well ?

And regarding Xavier, I don't have to assume anything. We saw it on panel. Also it could be skill vs power type thing. Emma humiliated Rachel with a portion of the PF and stated the reason she was able to do it was because even though Rachel was more powerful, Emma had the skill and experience.

If Loki's 1st action is to magically shield his and Dooms mind from Xavier (ala Enchantress), Loki kills Xavier dead with his 2nd action...no matter what it is.

Doom (due to his anti-magnetism defenses built into his armor) would be able to last long enough against Mags for Loki to kill off Xavier...

At that point, Loki and Doom combine to rip Mags apart...

Loki and Doom wins...

Remember this scene folks; Loki is superior to Amora...he could replicate the following feat in his sleep:

That's not a battle feat...

Originally posted by Digi
Disagree entirely. Thor has some good showings against tp and some bad ones. He's hardly been a sure thing. But show me Loki being telepathically dominated...ever. Frankly, I think either one of those two could shield both from telepathic assault. Even if Loki doesn't have tp defense (he most assuredly does), there's Doom's own machinations to contend with. And he knows Xavier, so one of the first things that would happen would be to prevent any intrusion.

And I didn't even have to resort to the whiny complaints of lowballing Thor that seem to hover around him these days. There may be a team-induced PIS argument in there to add to my own reasoning, but I have no desire to pursue the possibility.

Loki was once beaten in a mental battle. By Odin.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
You know, the Enchantress was able to shield the minds of all the villians in the original Secret War from Xaviers power (and did it on a whim)...

If she can do it, then I have no doubt that Loki could do it as well...

Originally posted by zopzop
Thor's TP showing in AvX were phenomenal. Rachel couldn't get into his mind and a Phoenix boosted Emma (herself an accomplished telepath) freaked out at what was inside her mind. P5 Emma also wanted no part of Rulk.

Yet Xavier instantly shut down their minds as well as P5 Namor's. What are Loki's best TP feats because I'm almost 100% sure Xavier's sh|t all over them.

The first paragraph contradicts nothing I said. He has really good and really bad showings.

The latter is rather unquantifiable, but irrelevant. Defending against tp and being a telepathic equal are vastly different. Loki need not equal Xavier's feats to defend against him, especially once we include Doom's own defense capabilities. You're moving the goalposts by demanding feats that put Loki as an equal. They don't exist. I'm only saying he wouldn't be shut down by tp.

I think Loki has a respect thread, if you're interested.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
That's not a battle feat...

Given the ease in which she did it, does it really have to be a battle feat?

She sensed him trying to get in and immediately put a stop to it; she could do that in battle...and so could Loki.

http://m388.photobucket.com/albumview/albums/OneDumbG0/Loki%20Sorcery/LokiAstralForm08455.jpg.html?o=19

Do we want to compare how Odin did against Galactus in tp, and then how awful Xavier did twice against Galactus?

That's really the only thing you can tie together of the two

^ 👆 Or Loki reading Magneto's thoughts through his helmet which has made Erik immune to Xavier's telepathy for virtually his entire career. Or Loki mindphucking Norman Osborn who easily kept X-Man out of his mind.

There might not be telepathy feats for Loki to match Xavier ***-for-tat, but there are plenty of feats ripe for comparison. So long as you don't dismiss them out of hand and ignore common sense.

I forgot about the Magneto thing.

But yeah, at the very least Loki won't be under Xavier's power. At that point in time it becomes someone who also has high herald level power against Xavier.

And Doom is pretty much immune to any power here too.

👆 to the above few posts.

DOOM solos

I think this is a bad match up for Xavier, and Mags can't take them alone, so Doom/Loki for the stomp.