Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Why?The power up as we saw recently isn't exactly large and if we're using DCnU incarnations, what's Diana done to warrant being valued so highly period?
Plus Warrior Madness and all that jazz.
It may not have been enough to overcome the First Born, but it did allow her to stomp Artemis. And Artemis appears to be roughly equal to a fully armed WW. So yeah, it's a pretty massive power up.
Originally posted by ares834
It may not have been enough to overcome the First Born, but it did allow her to stomp Artemis. And Artemis appears to be roughly equal to a fully armed WW. So yeah, it's a pretty massive power up.
She barely outperformed Orion if at all against the First Born with the amp.
It may give her an okay power up in comparison to her own base levels but we haven't really seen her do much of anything conclusive and the only relative showing we have doesn't speak very much to the potency of the upgrade.
Using such flimsy evidence to give her a win over someone like Thor is frankly, imho, laughable. Thor's shown comparable if not superior leaps in abilities by getting angry.
I honestly feel bad for Wonder Woman. Her big power upgrade is the equivalent of a hero cutting loose.
If that's what you think, you obviously haven't bothered to read the comics.
I'll say it again. She stomped Artemis. In their other encounter and a brief scuffle, they come off as near equals but when WW takes off her cuffs she destroys Artemis.
This isn't "flimsy evidence" either. The only argument flimsy here is your attempt to equate her to Orion level due to their performance against the First Born when he totally outclasses both of them.
Sure, it may not bring her up to Thor's level. But it sure as hell brings her to, or at least, very close to a hammer-less Thor's level.
Originally posted by ares834
If that's what you think, you obviously haven't bothered to read the comics.I'll say it again. She [b]stomped
Artemis. In their other encounter and a brief scuffle, they come off as near equals but when WW takes off her cuffs she destroys Artemis.This isn't "flimsy evidence" either. The only argument flimsy here is your attempt to equate her to Orion level due to their performance against the First Born when he totally outclasses both of them.
Sure, it may not bring her up to Thor's level. But it sure as hell brings her to, or at least, very close to a hammer-less Thor's level.[/B]
I have.
Like I said, she got a somewhat okay boost in comparison to her normal operating levels. However, using that as evidence for her beating f*cking Thor is ridiculous and hilarious. Especially since that beating relied a lot on superior skill then pure brute force and the being she beat Diana was taking on just fine with the gauntlets.
I'm confused, do you think she did significantly better then Orion then? What the First Born said while not conclusive makes me think she was closer to him at that point but there's no denying that the upgrade was not very significant by any stretch of the imagination relative to another hero.
Why? She failed to do anything significant to First Born. She beat up some God which is like her best showing, but Thor's done far better against way bigger and badder.
Originally posted by ares834
If that's what you think, you obviously haven't bothered to read the comics.I'll say it again. She [b]stomped
Artemis. In their other encounter and a brief scuffle, they come off as near equals but when WW takes off her cuffs she destroys Artemis.This isn't "flimsy evidence" either. The only argument flimsy here is your attempt to equate her to Orion level due to their performance against the First Born when he totally outclasses both of them.
Sure, it may not bring her up to Thor's level. But it sure as hell brings her to, or at least, very close to a hammer-less Thor's level. [/B]
Agree with you Ares
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I have.Like I said, she got a somewhat okay boost in comparison to her normal operating levels. However, using that as evidence for her beating f*cking Thor is ridiculous and hilarious. Especially since that beating relied a lot on superior skill then pure brute force and the being she beat Diana was taking on just fine with the gauntlets.
I'm confused, do you think she did significantly better then Orion then? What the First Born said while not conclusive makes me think she was closer to him at that point but there's no denying that the upgrade was not very significant by any stretch of the imagination relative to another hero.
Why? She failed to do anything significant to First Born. She beat up some God which is like her best showing, but Thor's done far better against way bigger and badder.
The thing is the First Born is well beyond either of them. For example, an eight year old kid isn't going to do far better than a five year old kid would in a fight against a full grown man. In either case, the man is going to lay the kid out in a punch or two.
Yes, Thor has better feats. I'm not denying that. But Thor also has worse feats. At his average levels and without the hammer the idea that he can stomp Wonder Woman level characters is frankly laughable.
Originally posted by ares834
The thing is the First Born is well beyond either of them. For example, an eight year old kid isn't going to do far better than a five year old kid would in a fight against a full grown man. In either case, the man is going to lay the kid out in a punch or two.Yes, Thor has better feats. I'm not denying that. But Thor also has worse feats. At his average levels and without the hammer the idea that he can stomp Wonder Woman level characters is frankly laughable.
I don't agree that he's well beyond either of them as they are able to give him a fight just using their fists but that's besides the point. She didn't show any significant boost in power.
Why do you say Wonder Woman level like that is supposed to automatically carry weight? The new 52 isn't the old DC Universe.
You think Thor wrecking Artemis is laughable (Although I never said that), why? Because of her stellar record? What is Artemis' best feat? Beating up Lennox and occupying Diana for a page?
Also here's their fight with Gauntlets and without:
I stand by what I said: Removing the Gauntlets is an okayish power boost, if you can even call it that. At least if Diana had overpowered Artemis we'd have a decent basis, but she outfought her. Diana could have just gotten mad and replicating the feat would be well within reason.
Even in terms of outfighting opponents, Thor's showing against Fenris/Loki is a lot more impressive imho:
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I stand by what I said: Removing the Gauntlets is a measly power boost, if you can even call it that. Diana could have just gotten mad and probably replicated the feat. The fight with the First Born makes that very clear.
A "measly power boost", yeah sure...
Here is Wonder Woman's fight against Artemis with her gauntlets on.
And here with them off:
Yeah, a very measly power up that... She goes from struggling against Artemis to completely stomping her.
Originally posted by ares834
A "measly power boost", yeah sure...
Here is Wonder Woman's fight against Artemis with her gauntlets on.And here with them off:
Yeah, a very measly power up that... She goes from struggling against Artemis to completely stomping her.
Is that their latest fight? Haven't read that yet.
Also, Artemis specifically points out that Diana caught her unaware the first time which really isn't selling me on your point. And Wonder Woman still won despite being concerned about bystanders etc.
And I edited to okayish, I want to give credit where credit is due. That being said, that really doesn't do anything to change my mind. The moment she went on the offensive, she handed Artemis her ass and swiftly at that. It's more like an adrenaline rush then something like a Sun Dip or the belt of strength.
I'm not denying their is some increase (That would be silly as the intent of the writer imho is clear) but using it as evidence that she beats Thor? Like I said, laughable. Thor kicks it up a notch just as much if not more due to holding back/getting angry etc.
