The Greatest Foe the darkness had ever known...

Originally posted by The_Tempest
What? They stalemated in ROTS.

Yoda seemed to have the upper hand in the lightsaber duel. He just idiotically didn't expect Sidious to use lightning on him when he confronted him after their pod tossing; if he had held onto his lightsaber, he probably would have won.

I missed two of your replies, sorry.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
how about in destructive force application?

Barring a Force nexus and preparation, no, I don't see Vitiate eclipsing Plagueis in destructive Force application. The shit Plagueis did to his Maladian Jedi killing attackers in the book while suffering from extreme blood loss and heart failure is extraordinary.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
didnt yoda have the advantage with sabers, until palps started using force abilities, in which yoda semi overpowered sidious with tutaminis, until he unluckily flew of the pod, while sidious was able to stay on?

edit: correct me if im wrong

SIDIOUS_66 makes a convincing argument that Palpatine's disarming by Yoda was the product of the uneven terrain. Palpatine drops his lightsaber, per the script, when threatened with a fall from the Chancellor's podium. On flat terrain, that probably won't happen.

I could imagine that Yoda is a shade more skillful with his weapon, having actively used it far more than Sidious. Barring that, both are named masters of all 7 forms of combat and all the relevant sources indicate parity at best for Yoda.

No.. the script take priority over the novel. Lucas own script makes it crystal clear what happened. Yoda DISARMS Sidious. No mention of him only losing it because of some terrain issue. Besides, even if that was the case.. both are fighting under such conditions and if yoda unleashes a furious attack and palps is sent reeling and had to recover his footing by dropping his weapon.. well yoda CAUSED that to happen. He didn't just trip and fail. In either case Yoda disarms palps.. and Lucas made that crystal clear.

How does Yoda struggle with Plag? That makes no sense to me.. Yoda is his absolute boss in sabers and I don't see any feats of Plag that leads me to believe he would overwhelm Yoda with the force. Yoda wins that fight and moderate difficulty at worst.

Originally posted by The_Tempest

SIDIOUS_66 makes a convincing argument that Palpatine's disarming by Yoda was the product of the uneven terrain.

It was actually Arhael who was the first to make that argument.

Ah, well, then credit to our dearly missed Arhael.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Besides, even if that was the case.. both are fighting under such conditions and if yoda unleashes a furious attack and palps is sent reeling and had to recover his footing by dropping his weapon.. well yoda CAUSED that to happen. He didn't just trip and fail. In either case Yoda disarms palps..

So I guess you agree then that Skywalker continuously driving back Kenobi meant he was winning the whole time right?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
and Lucas made that crystal clear.

Lucas also made the whole on screen fight a stalemate.

A stalemate in which it's actually Yoda who runs in the end.

Why are you constantly wrong on things DP and yet try and argue them is beyond me. I like you buddy, but sometimes it gets tiring correcting you all the time.

1. The key difference being that it's kenobi STYLE to fight on the defensive.. which somtimes means giving ground wnen needed. This is in stark contrast to how Palps fights. Thus, Kenobi giving ground isn't the same as Palps or Yoda giving ground.

2. If Anakin had disarmed Kenobi from his aggressive attacks.. I wouldn't say Kenobi just dropped his saber because of uneven ground. I would say the EXACT same thing I'm saying here... Anakin FORCED kenobi to drop his saber from his attack. JUST LIKE Yoda FORCED Palps to drop his weapon from his attack.

3. To say nothing of the fact that Lucas says explicitly that yoda DISARMS Palps... anything in the novel sayign otherwise is non canon.

Next correction...

1. He didn't make the whole fight a stalemate actually.. He actually notes in his script that Yoda was gaining the upper hand and the emperor seems doomed. He even shows Yoda buckling down and getting serious and overpowering the emperor's lighting. Lucas also notes that Yoda disarms Sids in saber combat. So yes, while in the end it was a stalemate and I'm okay with calling it that... if anybody had the advantage and won it was Yoda not Sids

2. Did you forget that when both FRESH and ready to go Sids tried to run from Yoda FIRST... "if so powerful you are.. why run" Yoda only left after AFTER what... a 5 story drop after a long fight? Huge difference. To say nothing of the fact that Sids wanted Yoda dead... he tried to kill Yoda first in fact with his executive order to kill the Jedi... So Sids didn't jump down there to get the job done either.. He left himself and called for help... So let's act like yoda leaving means the lost... Sids tried to leave first when both were fresh and also didn't try and pursue yoda and kill him like he wanted and intented.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Ah, well, then credit to our dearly missed Arhael.

U want to credit somebody for making a useless point? Guess that's okay.

Speaking of credit, some of it goes to me for finding yet another source that says Palpatine is the most powerful Sith ever.

You sure you didn't get it from Silvers exhaustive list of them?

Nope. Silver borrowed plenty from myGideon's exhaustive search, added a few others that IGideon didn't know about.

But I found another one.

Okay.

In all seriousness I think all of these guys are at Yoda's level and can stalemate him more or less.

pretty sure they're all < than yoda except RotS sidious and RotJ, the former most likely being equal.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Yoda (ROTS) runs a gauntlet! with full rests in btwn, how far does he get? Setting is on an open, flat terrain.

1. Darth Bane (DoE)
2. Darth Plagueis
3. Lord Vitiate
4. The Hero of Tython
5. (rematch): RotS Sidious
Boss: RotJ Sidious

1.Slaughters.
2.Barley takes a majority
3/4.Wins with some trouble
5.Loses barley or 5/5 split.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Ah, well, then credit to our dearly missed Arhael.

I argued that in a debate with DP I believe before Arhael was even a member here. A debate in which DP argued that Yoda actually had a better advantage during his duel with Dooku on Geonosis because Yoda had a wall to leap on or something retarded like that. lol. Now, it might be possible that DP may have been convinced after Arhael argued the same thing, seeing how he was the ONLY one convinced by Arhael's argument that one doesn't limit himself when trying not to kill.

And I don't miss Arhael. He was like another Nai; they both never admitted when they were wrong. I mean, they both made good points sometimes and are far better debaters than the likes of LeGenD, DP, KT and your idiotic "lawyer" friend, I'll admit that, but not people I miss.

1. Takes it with mid-difficulty
2. Takes it with high difficulty
3. Takes it with mid-high difficulty
4. Takes it with mid-difficulty
5. Takes it with extreme difficulty

Boss: Toss up.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda

5. Takes it with extreme difficulty

What makes you think Yoda>Sidious?.

Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
What makes you think Yoda>Sidious?.

I don't. Yoda is the superior swordsman, and Palpatine edges Yoda out in the force. If I had to give them stats it'd be.

Yoda:
Lightsaber: 100
Force: 98

Sidious:
Lightsaber: 95
Force: 100

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I argued that in a debate with DP I believe before Arhael was even a member here. A debate in which DP argued that Yoda actually had a better advantage during his duel with Dooku on Geonosis because Yoda had a wall to leap on or something retarded like that. lol. Now, it might be possible that DP may have been convinced after Arhael argued the same thing, seeing how he was the ONLY one convinced by Arhael's argument that one doesn't limit himself when trying not to kill.

And I don't miss Arhael. He was like another Nai; they both never admitted when they were wrong. I mean, they both made good points sometimes and are far better debaters than the likes of LeGenD, DP, KT and your idiotic "lawyer" friend, I'll admit that, but not people I miss.

Show me that thread.

Arhael came up with that argument when I showed him what it said in the ROTS script. And I never once saw you use that argument until he kept posting it.

But to be fair, yes your right, if that argument was just coming from you I probably would have ignored it.

And yes Yoda will be able to fight at his best when he can bounce around due to his style. Not that Dooku wasn't fighting at his best.

And stop bitching about people who were clearly better debators than you. I don't exactly remember the last time you admitted you were wrong either, even when the evidence is clearly piling up against you.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
No.. the script take priority over the novel. Lucas own script makes it crystal clear what happened. Yoda DISARMS Sidious.(...) well yoda CAUSED that to happen. He didn't just trip and fail. In either case Yoda disarms palps.. and Lucas made that crystal clear.

(...)Yoda is his absolute boss in sabers

Agree here.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
1. Takes it with mid-difficulty
2. Takes it with high difficulty
3. Takes it with mid-high difficulty
4. Takes it with mid-difficulty
5. Takes it with extreme difficulty

Also agree.

But i don't think, that Sidious has any advantage over Yoda in the force. They are perfectly equal imo.

And my question: is ROTJ Sidious stronger then ROTS Sidious?