Originally posted by SamZEDWolverine was fighting back. He didn't go there looking for a fight, but Laura isn't exactly a delicate flower. And once his claws popped, he wasn't crippling his own fighting ability. Laura did that enough for him with her ingenuity.
Laura prevented his wounds from healing, she was slashing him while he wasn't even fighting back so he [b]eventually lost. Being put down by continued attacks from adamantium claws and with a slowed down HF while not putting up a fight is a low showing? [/B]
Originally posted by ODGAt the end yeah. She's gotten her share of free shoots though.
Wolverine was fighting back. He didn't go there looking for a fight, but Laura isn't exactly a delicate flower. And once his claws popped, he wasn't crippling his own fighting ability. Laura did that enough for him with her ingenuity.
Originally posted by SamZEDIf you think two swipes of her claws presents some sort of insurmountable advantage against Wolverine, then I think you're unintentionally disparaging Wolverine's abilities. He slapped her away after that and popped his claws and went at her. And this all happened on the first page of a 7 page fight. Not exactly at the end.
At the end yeah. She's gotten her share of free shoots though.
Originally posted by ODGI counted 8 free shots, 3 of them connected, one to his throat. Only then he tried to take her down, then after that made another attempt to reason with her. Did she beat him? Yes. Was he going all out the whole time? Not exactly. Not sure what are we arguing about.
If you think two swipes of her claws presents some sort of insurmountable advantage against Wolverine, then I think you're unintentionally disparaging Wolverine's abilities. He slapped her away after that and popped his claws and went at her. And this all happened on the first page of a 7 page fight. Not exactly at the end.
Originally posted by SamZEDI counted two before Wolverine popped his claws and they rushed each other down. And your excuse that Logan wasn't going all-out is just that: an excuse. Both meaningless and irrelevant to whether or not Logan was fighting back.
I counted 8 free shots, 3 of them connected, one to his throat. Only then he tried to take her down, then after that made another attempt to reason with her. Did she beat him? Yes. Was he going all out the whole time? Not exactly. Not sure what are we arguing about.
Originally posted by ODGit was three. One to the face, then to his throat, another one to his leg right after that.
I counted two before Wolverine popped his claws and they rushed each other down. And your excuse that Logan wasn't going all-out is just that: an excuse. Both meaningless and irrelevant to whether or not Logan was fighting back.
ODG, I've been here along time and know that years of "Teh Wlverin wins" posts on KMC annoyed you to the point you've got some sort of anti-Wolverine agenda and feel the need to accuse everyone who says something nice about Wolverine of making excuses... but I frankly don't care enough to make excuses or try to justify Logan losing, I like Laura. Simply calling them as I see them. And he really was not going all out the whole time, arguing that - denying the obvious.
Originally posted by SamZEDI only see the throat and leg one. Which were basically irrelevant as she didn't actually shove dirt into any of those open wounds thereafter.
it was three. One to the face, then to his throat, another one to his leg right after that.ODG, I've been here along time and know that years of "Teh Wlverin wins" posts on KMC annoyed you to the point you've got some sort of anti-Wolverine agenda and feel the need to accuse everyone who says something nice about Wolverine of making excuses... but I frankly don't care enough to make excuses or try to justify Logan losing, I like Laura. Simply calling them as I see them. And he really was not going all out the whole time, arguing that - denying the obvious.
This isn't an anti-Wolverine agenda. I know and understand that Wolverine fought back in that fight. I also know that Wolverine started fighting back well before the end of the fight. I also also know that two cheapshot swipes aren't going to make Wolverine buckle under and take the fight out of his reach. So a statement like this:
Originally posted by SamZEDIs either misleading, outright lying or just wrong. I chose to treat it as the third.
Being put down by continued attacks from adamantium claws and with a slowed down HF while not putting up a fight is a low showing?
Because I recognize these are questions of fact. I do not offer excuses. Which is why I'm not bothering to dignify your insinuations about my personal motivations, nor am I even going to bother questioning your's. Read the fight for what it is, or don't.
Originally posted by ODGLower left pannel of the first page. She connected 3 times. I am reading the fight for what it is. And I see one character going all out, the other holding back at first and letting his opponent take 8 free shots 3 of which connected. I got no personal motivation other than you (for the second time now) trying to start an argument with me (for whatever reason) over this particular fight just because I stated that Wolverine was holding back at first, which he was.
I only see the throat and leg one. Which were basically irrelevant as she didn't actually shove dirt into any of those open wounds thereafter.This isn't an anti-Wolverine agenda. I know and understand that Wolverine fought back in that fight. I also know that Wolverine started fighting back well before the end of the fight. I also also know that two cheapshot swipes aren't going to make Wolverine buckle under and take the fight out of his reach. So a statement like this: Is either misleading, outright lying or just wrong. I chose to treat it as the third.
Because I recognize these are questions of fact. I do not offer excuses. Which is why I'm not bothering to dignify your insinuations about my personal motivations, nor am I even going to bother questioning your's. Read the fight for what it is, or don't.
Are you now just arguing with me for the sake of arguing? What are you trying to prove to me exactly? That Logan lost? I know that. That Laura can defeat Logan? I know that too. I also know it could go the other way around and I know that in that particular fight he wasn't going all out the whole time. You don't see it that way? Fine, whatever. Agree to disagree. No need to wage a holly war against me or anything.
Originally posted by SamZEDHonestly have no idea what you're talking about. I see two swipes before he pops the claws, at which point, they rush each other down and Wolverine begins fighting:
Lower left pannel of the first page. She connected 3 times.
Originally posted by SamZEDProject whatever handicaps you want on Wolverine. He was fighting back. And he was fighting back well before the end of the fight. I can argue X-23 was holding back as well since she didn't go into a berserker rage. It's irrelevant to the laughably erroneous notion that Wolverine wasn't fighting back. Which is what you claimed and what I disagreed with. Stop moving the goalposts.
I am reading the fight for what it is. And I see one character going all out, the other holding back at first and letting his opponent take 8 free shots 3 of which connected. I got no personal motivation other than you (for the second time now) trying to start an argument with me (for whatever reason) over this particular fight just because I stated that Wolverine was holding back at first, which he was.
Originally posted by SamZEDThis coming from the guy who insinuates me for being anti-Wolverine? I proved exactly what I set out to prove: a) Wolverine was fighting back; b) Wolverine was fighting back well before the end of the fight; c) Laura did not get 8 free swipes on him. If you can't follow the conversation, then don't offer excuses or accuse me of dragging this conversation out to unnecessary exasperation. Any frustration you feel, you brought on yourself.
Are you now just arguing with me for the sake of arguing? What are you trying to prove to me exactly? That Logan lost? I know that. That Laura can defeat Logan? I know that too. I also know it could go the other way around and I know that in that [b]particular fight he wasn't going all out the whole time. You don't see it that way? Fine, whatever. Agree to disagree. No need to wage a holly war against me or anything. [/B]
Originally posted by ODG
Honestly have no idea what you're talking about. I see two swipes before he pops the claws, at which point, they rush each other down and Wolverine begins fighting:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/72/x23targetx6009vn7.jpg/ Project whatever handicaps you want on Wolverine. He was fighting back. And he was fighting back well before the end of the fight. I can argue X-23 was holding back as well since she didn't go into a berserker rage. It's irrelevant to the laughably erroneous notion that Wolverine wasn't fighting back. Which is what you claimed and what I disagreed with. Stop moving the goalposts. This coming from the guy who insinuates me for being anti-Wolverine? I proved exactly what I set out to prove: Wolverine was fighting back. Wolverine was fighting back well before the end of the fight. Laura did not get 8 free swipes on him. If you can't follow the conversation, then don't offer excuses.
Again with the accusations of me making excuses... Once again, I don't care enough to make excuses or try to justify Logan losing. Just stating what's happened In the book. It's not making excuses, it's simple reading and comprehending. Basic math even. She got 8 free shots before Logan started to fight back. 3 of them connected. In my book its not going all out. Hence me saying that he wasn't fighting back the whole time. Once again, don't go out of you way trying to prove something to me, just don't care enough. You think it was an all out vs fight with both characters givving their 100% fine. Have it your way.
Originally posted by SamZEDMust have been a pretty ineffectual swipe as the first panel of the page I posted he doesn't even have a scratch on his face at all.
Page before the one you posted. She gets him with her foor claw, he goes "AHH". Sorry, can't post the scan.
Originally posted by SamZEDWolverine holding back is irrelevant to Wolverine fighting back, or fighting back well before the end. If you want me to more specifically label that as an irrelevant non sequitur or pointless red herring rather than as an "excuse," ok then.
Again with the accusations of me making excuses...
Originally posted by SamZEDNobody is justifying Logan's loss. He lost. I see two cheapshots, which somehow you keep inflating to 8 shots based on nothing but Wolverithmetics. Wolverine not going all-out is completely irrelevant to your ignorant assumption that Wolverine wasn't fighting back and/or wasn't fighting back until the end. But I understand you will feign befuddlement over so simple a premise because... well, you're just arguing to argue at this point.
Once again, I don't care enough to make excuses or try to justify Logan losing. Just stating what I see happening In the book. It's not making excuses, it's simple reading and comprehending. Basic math even. She got 8 free shots before Logan started to fight back. 3 of them connected. In my book its not going all out. Hence me saying that he wasn't fighting back the whole time. Once again, don't go out of you way trying to prove something to me, just don't care enough. You think it was an all out vs fight with both characters givving their 100% fine. Have it your way.
Either way, like I said before, Laura didn't go into a berserker rage either. So she was holding back as well and it's a wash. And still, completely irrelevant. Do you know what moving the goalposts is? It means you start an argument about one thing and then you start arguing about something completely unrelated. Which I labeled as an "excuse" before. Now, we can agree it's better characterized as an irrelevant non sequitur or pointless red herring. And to nail the point home, the only reason you brought up the whole holding back notion is because you're trying to deflect from the original points of contention:
Wolverine was fighting back.
Wolverine was fighting back well before the end of the fight.
Wolverine was not taken out of the fight by the two cheapshot swipes.
Wolverine did not give Laura 8 free swipes.
2 swipes =/= 8 swipes.
And these listed facts render this following statement to be complete bullsh1t:
Originally posted by SamZEDDo me a favor though and don't blame me for putting those words in your mouth. That, along with your frustration, isn't my fault.
Laura prevented his wounds from healing, she was slashing him while he wasn't even fighting back so he [b]eventually lost. Being put down by continued attacks from adamantium claws and with a slowed down HF while not putting up a fight is a low showing? [/B]
Originally posted by ODGSo now we moved to "no visible scar so doesn't count" eh? Very convenient. It was 3. She connected 3 times before Logan popped his claws, that's what I said and that's what happened. End of story.
Must have been a pretty ineffectual swipe as the first panel of the page I posted he doesn't even have a scratch on his face at all. Wolverine holding back is irrelevant to Wolverine fighting back, or fighting back well before the end. If you want me to more specifically label that as an irrelevant non sequitur or pointless red herring rather than as an "excuse," ok then. Nobody is justifying Logan's loss. He lost. I see two cheapshots, which somehow you keep inflating to 8 shots based on nothing but Wolverithmetics. Wolverine not going all-out is completely irrelevant to your ignorant assumption that Wolverine wasn't fighting back and/or wasn't fighting back until the end. But I understand you will feign befuddlement over so simple a premise because... well, you're just arguing to argue at this point.Either way, like I said before, Laura didn't go into a berserker rage either. So she was holding back as well and it's a wash. And still, completely irrelevant. Do you know what moving the goalposts is? It means you start an argument about one thing and then you start arguing about something completely unrelated. Which I labeled as an "excuse" before. Now, we can agree it's better characterized as an irrelevant non sequitur or pointless red herring. And to nail the point home, the only reason you brought up the whole holding back notion is because you're trying to deflect from the original points of contention:
Wolverine was fighting back.
Wolverine was fighting back well before the end of the fight.
Wolverine was not taken out of the fight by the two cheapshot swipes.
Wolverine did not give Laura 8 free swipes.
2 swipes =/= 8 swipes.And these listed facts render this following statement to be complete bullsh1t: Do me a favor though and don't blame me for putting those words in your mouth. That, along with your frustration, isn't my fault.
I am the one arguing for the sake of argument? ME? Really?? Several times now I said that I dont care, offered to agree to disagree all in attempt to end this discussion while you keep responding to me with hugeass posts accusing me of making excuses or lying about the outcome of a fight I dont even care about or lying about a number of hits that she landed. I was honestly trying to end this on a friendly note and ignore your accusations. But at this point the heck with it.
Also 👆 for quoting my discussion with Stilt, somehow I knew its going to be your last resort. Notice how every time I responded to you I said "he wasn't fighting back the whole time. When I argued with Stilt it's been years since I've read the fight and it didnt matter because we were talking about healing factors, not the outcome of the fight. I only re-read it after we started talking about the amount of free shots she got. In my defence I dont keep that iisue under my pillow just in case so e butt-hurt poster with anti-Wolverine agenda desides to start something over nothing. And after I re-read it... From that point on I never claimed that he wasn't fighting back at all, only that she had several free shots which she did. 8 to be exact. 8. I'll type just in case - eight. 3 of them connected. Three. And the original point was NEVER that she took him out with two swipes. My original point was that being taken down by Laura is not a low showing for Wolverine. That's where you came in with your anti-Wolverine agenda because you felt that somehow I was trying to give Wolverine too much credit in that fight which to you apparently is a trigger scent. Since then I outright stated several times that he lost and I'm perfectly fine with it. And since it's now clear to me you're not gonna let go I'm going to sum up. Laura attacked, Wolverine gave her 8 free shots, later tried to reason with her, now for any sane poster that should be enough to see that he wasnt fighting back the whole time. Whether it effected the outcome of the fight is beside the point as I never claimed that it's an unfair win. Only that it's not a low showing for his healing factor.
Originally posted by SamZEDWell, considering you can't or won't post the page in question where Laura slashes Wolverine's face, I think it's more than relevant that I point out there's no evidence she did on the page that directly follows this mysterious first cheapshot. So it's not really the end of the story as you've given me absolutely no reason to trust your word.
So now we moved to "no visible scar so doesn't count" eh? Very convenient. It was 3. She connected 3 times before Logan popped his claws, that's what I said and that's what happened. End of story.
Originally posted by SamZEDBackhandedly arguing with me is arguing with me. You've been on these forums long enough to know the difference.
I am the one arguing for the sake of argument? ME? Really?? Several times now I said that I dont care, offered to agree to disagree all in attempt to end this discussion while you keep responding to me with hugeass posts accusing me of making excuses or lying about the outcome of a fight I dont even care about or lying about a number of hits that she landed. I was honestly trying to end this on a friendly note and ignore your accusations. But at this point the heck with it.
Originally posted by SamZEDHave no idea what you're talking about. Why would it be a last resort when it was the exact post that I took issue with to begin with?
Also 👆 for quoting my discussion with Stilt, somehow I knew its going to be your last resort.
Originally posted by SamZEDAre you backhandedly conceding you were mischaracterizing the fight by accident because you hadn't read it in a while? Because that's all you had to say to start and end this.
Notice how every time I responded to you I said "he wasn't fighting back [b]the whole time. When I argued with Stilt it's been years since I've read the fight and it didnt matter because we were talking about healing factors, not the outcome of the fight. I only re-read it after we started talking about the amount of free shots she got. [/b]
Originally posted by SamZEDWell, guess you aren't conceding anything, not even backhandedly. So I appreciate the whole, "I wasn't even really disagreeing with you and not even trying hard to directly contradict your claims, I was just playing nice" charade, but this is pretty much the attitude I've been confronting the entire way with you. After all, I didn't call you a Wolverine fanboy but you pretty much tried to accuse me of having an anti-Wolverine bias early on. Something which I wouldn't even dignify, yet you continue to push onto this conversation. So, compose yourself for a minute here, and reassess just who is being the arse in this arseholish conversation. Because as far as I see, you are solely guilty of all the behavior you seem to despise in this conversation. Projection, much?
In my defence I dont keep that iisue under my pillow just in case so e butt-hurt poster with anti-Wolverine agenda desides to start something over nothing. And after I re-read it... From that point on I never claimed that he wasn't fighting back at all, only that she had several free shots which she did. 8 to be exact. 8. I'll type just in case - eight. 3 of them connected. Three.
We disagree. Sharply on the scene in question. Which is a disagreement over plain fact. And can be discussed without you accusing me of bullying you into the conversation. Because as you shouldn't be trying to deny anymore, you've got more than enough to say about the scene in question. Apparently, you even have things to say about about me personally. Which, again, is just a worthless projection of your own insecurities concerning the scene in question.
So back to the scene, I still don't see 8 free shots, much less 3 connected before Wolverine started fighting back.
Originally posted by SamZEDYou tried to say it wasn't a low showing because Wolverine wasn't fighting back. He was fighting back. You pulled back from that assessment by arguing that Wolverine wasn't fighting back until the end. He was fighting back well before the end. And your accusations about anti-Wolverine agendas and me victimizing you have really nothing to do with that.
And the original point was NEVER that she took him out with two swipes. My original point was that being taken down by Laura is not a low showing for Wolverine. That's where you came in with your anti-Wolverine agenda because you felt that somehow I was trying to give Wolverine too much credit in that fight which to you apparently is a trigger scent. Since then I outright stated several times that he lost and I'm perfectly fine with it. And since it's now clear to me you're not gonna let go I'm going to sum up. Laura attacked, Wolverine gave her 8 free shots, later tried to reason with her, now for any sane poster that should be enough to see that he wasnt fighting back the whole time. Whether it effected the outcome of the fight is beside the point as I never claimed that it's an unfair win. Only that it's not a low showing for his healing factor.
But you seem content to just sit on your hands and declare that Wolverine gave her 8 free shots. Not even close. I don't know how you came up with that complete bastardization of a reading of this fight. Because 8 is a very specific number. And it flies in the face of these scans:
Originally posted by ExodusCloakAre you mad at me or just yourself for having nailed yourself to the cross with your arbitrary and erroneous counting here? Never mind that. That's a rhetorical question. Do we have to do Sesame Street counting exercises to figure out how many shots Laura got in for free before Wolverine popped his claws and started fighting back? Or can we dispense with this charade now that the scene is being posted again for everyone to see?
