..... The Hulk Vs Thor .....

on speed and durability?
for one thing he has shown to be able to react to blitzes from hyperion, shown ftl reflexes, moved in ftl speeds with Mjolnir etc. I know currently ulk has shown some amazing speed feats but I never remember him in the past to do something like this so until cemented in the character I prefer not to use it for standard Hulk. That's just me though, don't shot 🙂
As for durability, it's just the facct that in most cases I see hulk being damaged but regenerating instantly while Thor can survive similar amounts of damage without having a healing factor.
I could go in BZ context but I am no scan hoarding guy so it would be hard for me. Maybe Rage would bother enough

A healing factor for hulk is like having a second engine in a car. It really isnt necessary. In fact all it does is make an already overpowered character even more undefeatable. Most of the blows that hulk heals from are blows that he is capable of living through even if his healing factor doesn't kick in.

Quite frankly, I can't think of a single thing that Thor is capable of doing that the hulk can not withstand and return two fold. And if we're talking about Worldbreaker Hulk, then Thor gets strapped down to a chair and raped.

Originally posted by RockofAges

Quite frankly, I can't think of a single thing that Thor is capable of doing that the hulk can not withstand and return two fold. And if we're talking about Worldbreaker Hulk, then Thor gets strapped down to a chair and raped.

Steal his soul
Teleporting him in the sun
Unleash a blast like the one that took out Durok
etc

But as we said already this isn't CBR so brawling it is

Hulk annihilates Thor.

Nothing Thor can do about it really.

Thor with Mjolnir was barely a match for Savage Hulk. Right now, Hulk is orders of magnitude more powerful at base levels, more intelligent, more inclined to use superspeed, more willing to amp his strength rather than fight against it... Thor's dead.

Originally posted by Warlord
on speed and durability?
for one thing he has shown to be able to react to blitzes from hyperion, shown ftl reflexes, moved in ftl speeds with Mjolnir etc. I know currently ulk has shown some amazing speed feats but I never remember him in the past to do something like this so until cemented in the character I prefer not to use it for standard Hulk. That's just me though, don't shot 🙂
As for durability, it's just the facct that in most cases I see hulk being damaged but regenerating instantly while Thor can survive similar amounts of damage without having a healing factor.
I could go in BZ context but I am no scan hoarding guy so it would be hard for me. Maybe Rage would bother enough

Hulk only really gets torn up by adamantium though (unless your going back to the Pak era), since Marvel NOW has started we haven't really seen Hulk use his healing factor yet, and he has some pretty impressive durability feats. Thor has some too, especially from the godbutcher storyline but I don't see many who actually think Thor has a stronger chin than Hulk does.

the incident I was talking about was back in Busiek's avengers days.
Anywayif we focus only in Marvel now I think we will have to wait for some additional feats. However IMO even when not specifically mentioned, Hulk's HF is always in use. It's part of his powerset after all.

Every herald has some HF, but they're also very durable. Hulk has been shown to use his HF before, so we know when Marvel mean to highlight his healing potential and when they are highlighting his durability.

Currently, they are doing the latter. Because he is so powerful that he isn't even having to utilise his HF.

He shrugs off "Thor-level" weapons with ease, that's explicitly what Marvel are stating. Which is logical, given that he's basically operating at a higher level of power than during his Savage Hulk days.

it's not like Thor's HF compares to Hulk's but overall I don't dissagree.
What Thor level weapons you refer to?

Originally posted by janus77
Which is logical, given that he's basically operating at a higher level of power than during his Savage Hulk days.

Some of their classic fights are still among the best Marvel has put out to date.

Originally posted by Warlord
it's not like Thor's HF compares to Hulk's but overall I don't dissagree.
What Thor level weapons you refer to?

The more impressive feat was when he ripped Mad Thinker's armour apart and took his version of some adamantium melting cannons, in the face. Though I don't recall if he had to use his HF in that instance, but he took it point-blank and then ripped Thinker's armour.

ok cool.
Although "thor level weapons" mean pretty much nothing unless proven on parper.
anyway I'd like to see them fight going all out currently. In the only comic they star together there's nothing to imply Hulk is more powerful overall and let's not forget Thor's feats in his own book.
To my eyes the difference between those two was always that Thor is mostly reluctant to go all out (not between them per se but in general)

Originally posted by The Sorrow
It's kinda crazy to think that back in the day a throwdown between these two was literally hand to hand, to point where Thor could even put his hammer away and it would still be a toss up as to who would walk away the winner. Nowadays Thor would have to pretty much bring his full arsenal to avoid defeat, it almost seems like it would be quite a shock if Thor won too whereas the reverse, not so much.

Some of their classic fights are still among the best Marvel has put out to date.

Savage Hulk would goad Thor about needing Mjolnir, Thor would take advantage of Savage's primitive thinking and low motivation. Constantly leaping away after thinking Thor was down for the count ...

What I find surprising is that people think in a very compartmentalised way, when it comes to Hulk-Thor.

People had huge arguments about Thor - Savage Hulk, because it was a contest. More or less everybody who is literate, knows that Hulk is >>>> Savage Hulk, at present (and has been for close on 6-7 years).

And then the logic and memory get reset when we have a thread like this.

Hulk, right now, operates with an intellect approaching Banner's (and he is ****ing formidable), with a confidence in his self-control (no more wasted energy - "oh no, I'm getting too angry, I MUST FIGHT AGAINST IT!!!"😉 and a desire to exert himself (owning Stark intellectually, wading through Thinker's blasts ...).

He unleashes more of his power, with greater finesse - going "World Breaker" at block and city level - managing to avoid collateral damage ... And he tanks everything that isn't laced with Zeus' magic.

Originally posted by Warlord
ok cool.
Although "thor level weapons" mean pretty much nothing unless proven on parper.
anyway I'd like to see them fight going all out currently. In the only comic they star together there's nothing to imply Hulk is more powerful overall and let's not forget Thor's feats in his own book.
To my eyes the difference between those two was always that Thor is mostly reluctant to go all out (not between them per se but in general)

I strongly disagree about Thor holding back, in the classic Savage Hulk encounters. They all pretty much had the same pattern, initially Hulk wanted nothing to do with the fight but Thor wouldn't leave, Thor wanted to "save Banner" so wouldn't attack all out... They fought, Thor got pummelled, Thor ratcheted it up, Hulk was impressed, Thor got furious and began to lose control, Thor calmed down or got beaten up by Savage Hulk.

At no point did Savage Hulk ever begin to demonstrate Mindless Hulk style ferocity. He always held back, because Banner would always be in there, holding on to the anger and blocking the amp from overwhelming him.

That's one of the things that changed notably during the period of House of M. Hulk and Banner found peace and Hulk became more powerful as a result. Even before that, during Savage Hulk's adventures on Nightmare Island (Tempus Fugit, iirc), where he beat the shit out of Nightmare, he explained that his Savage Hulk persona was just his adolescence. That his powers where far from fully formed during those years...

Originally posted by janus77
Yep, Savage Hulk and Thor usually lasted a good few pages and saw both almost losing it.

Savage Hulk would goad Thor about needing Mjolnir, Thor would take advantage of Savage's primitive thinking and low motivation. Constantly leaping away after thinking Thor was down for the count ...

What I find surprising is that people think in a very compartmentalised way, when it comes to Hulk-Thor.

People had huge arguments about Thor - Savage Hulk, because it was a contest. More or less everybody who is literate, knows that Hulk is >>>> Savage Hulk, at present (and has been for close on 6-7 years).

And then the logic and memory get reset when we have a thread like this.

Hulk, right now, operates with an intellect approaching Banner's (and he is ****ing formidable), with a confidence in his self-control (no more wasted energy - "oh no, I'm getting too angry, I MUST FIGHT AGAINST IT!!!"😉 and a desire to exert himself (owning Stark intellectually, wading through Thinker's blasts ...).

He unleashes more of his power, with greater finesse - going "World Breaker" at block and city level - managing to avoid collateral damage ... And he tanks everything that isn't laced with Zeus' magic.

thing is Thor vs Savage was a close fight because Thor allowing it to be a fight. Being a norse warrior and wanting to fight face to facce and all. Thor + Mjolnir was close or Equal to Hulk in a brawl back then.
Now of course there is no contest when engaging in a brawl but what if Thor used his other abilities. No dobt he has a chance then

Originally posted by Warlord
thing is Thor vs Savage was a close fight because Thor allowing it to be a fight. Being a norse warrior and wanting to fight face to facce and all. Thor + Mjolnir was close or Equal to Hulk in a brawl back then.
Now of course there is no contest when engaging in a brawl but what if Thor used his other abilities. No dobt he has a chance then

Those chances with out a fight would be what though?

Stealing his soul? (not happening, not even Mephisto could - something about Banner, Savage Hulk, Fixit etc being multiple distinct personalities, iirc)

BFR? naturally yes, but BFR is off here.

Blasts? Not a chance when we see what Hulk can easily shrug off.

Energy drain? Not a chance, since Green Scar, but even before it was a toss-up whether or not Hulk would simply amp past it.

Hulk has him beat in reflexes and reaction-time too, so that means playing dodge wouldn't be a good idea either.

Hulk has form in-terms of out-reacting FTL heralds, has been shown punching Sentry in the face mid bull-rush, pouncing on Jack Of Hearts before he could react (from a standing start) ...

I'm not really sold on reflexes as Thor has such or even better feats. An arguement can be made for both of them.
Stealing his soul is pretty much valid as currently there are no multiple personalities in the Hulk persona and actually personalities and soul is two very distinctive things but whatever. I doubt Thor would use this anyway. As for the energy blasts I doubt base Hulk would survive a Durok dropper. If he gets WB beforehand he might be but base I doubt it.

In any case from what you discribe above Hulk would easily beat surfer too right?

Originally posted by Warlord
I'm not really sold on reflexes as Thor has such or even better feats. An arguement can be made for both of them.
Stealing his soul is pretty much valid as currently there are no multiple personalities in the Hulk persona and actually personalities and soul is two very distinctive things but whatever. I doubt Thor would use this anyway. As for the energy blasts I doubt base Hulk would survive a Durok dropper. If he gets WB beforehand he might be but base I doubt it.

In any case from what you discribe above Hulk would easily beat surfer too right?

Hulk's current "base-level" is pretty much what we're talking about with the adamantium/"Thor-level" weapon shrugging off stuff. It wasn't him amping up or getting enraged, it was just his normal self.

Remember, Hulk now walks around with power sufficient to KO Loebforce Rulk with a ThunderClap.

As for Surfer, it depends on 2 things. 1) just how weakened Green Scar was on Sakaar (which was their most recent clash) and 2) whether Galactus' crippling Surfer or not.

Surfer survived T&A's physical attacks (though he was dying because of the Crunch energies - according to Galactus), so I think it's reasonable to say he'd hang in there for a while.

I would like to see them fight properly though, as The Sorrow says, it would definitely be an interesting fight.

my thoughts exactly.
I'd love to see the Thor that beat Gorr fighting Hulk without holding nothing back. Won't happen though 🙁