Originally posted by leonidas
no and no, but like i said, they are a form of reality warping. they definitely have mass, or at least the victim of a misdirect perceives them as having mass. the misconception is that they are illusions. they most certainly are not. jaime sees reality on a level far surpassing what anyone like spidey or dd or danny can. he doesn't 'see' like we do. he perceives reality in its most fundamental form--string. he then simply unbinds and reties the strings to reshape reality. he "saw" the misdirect as reality for several seconds until a logical inconsistency caused him to use his reality warping power to end the misdirect. AND he was amped by an uber powerful magical entity. that's......ridiculous. based on its showings, danny has, literally, no chance to survive the opening seconds of this fight if misdirect is allowed. h2h he'd win, but fantomex has healing and superhuman aim and speed as well. he also has the benefit of ranged weapons. misdirect in play charlie cluster wins 10/10 based on showings of misdirect. no misdirect but his weapon still in play, fantomex would STILL take some, but danny for a solid majority.
Interesting. This misdirect sounds almost like Daken's phermone taken to the uber level..
What's the nature of these misdirects? As in, does he create clones of himself? (And if that's the extent, how many clones?) Or can he pretty much make someone see whatever he wants? (Including making himself invisible/imperceptible..)
I'm not the biggest X fan, but did see Fantomex's debut, I think as part of a Fear Itself tie in.. Seemed like an interesting enough character. I'm going to have to hunt down some issues...
If you say Danny can't see past his misdirects, I won't dispute it. And besides, I'm not one of those fans who's favorite "has" to win every time.. tbh, unbeatable characters bore me.
But I'm not ready to concede a total loss.. 😈
There's AOE spam, if nothing else. (Fantomex would need to be around Gorgon/Spidey speed levels to beat him in a quick draw..)
Originally posted by cdtm
Interesting. This misdirect sounds almost like Daken's phermone taken to the uber level..What's the nature of these misdirects? As in, does he create clones of himself? (And if that's the extent, how many clones?) Or can he pretty much make someone see whatever he wants? (Including making himself invisible/imperceptible..)
I'm not the biggest X fan, but did see Fantomex's debut, I think as part of a Fear Itself tie in.. Seemed like an interesting enough character. I'm going to have to hunt down some issues...
If you say Danny can't see past his misdirects, I won't dispute it. And besides, I'm not one of those fans who's favorite "has" to win every time.. tbh, unbeatable characters bore me.
But I'm not ready to concede a total loss.. 😈
There's AOE spam, if nothing else. (Fantomex would need to be around Gorgon/Spidey speed levels to beat him in a quick draw..)
the nature of the misdirect is still unclear. we know that jaime "broke it" after realizing that what he saw was impossible--he didn't dispel it or see through it--with effort he broke it. there have been several types of misdirect. some he makes people see him as someone or something else. others are broad, far-reaching alterations in the environment, some he simply has people believe they see something they don't while he sneaks past, or approaches and attacks them from behind. he's generally honorable. the NEW dark fantomex has even GREATER control over his misdirect power, and greater range. it's really a ridiculous power. he even misdirected apocalypse's SHIP! and that ship, as everyone knows, is a CELESTIAL 'living ship'. it's essentially living technology. certainly no 'eyes' or senses like humans or metas have so maybe that answers your earlier question. if he can fool a celestial ship (he made it think it teleported when it didn't) he can certainly fool danny 10/10 imo. he's the best character to come out of marvel in the past 10 years or so, imo. completely unique with an awesome--if slightly broken--powerset. definitely worth checking him out.
aoe might work if he uses it instantly, before the misdirect is cast, but that seems unlikely imo. fantomex is fast, superhuman, but danny is faster. if he doesn't do it instantly, he could cast the misdirect and THINK he's taken out fantomex who would actually be walking up behind him and placing a bullet in his head.
Hey Leo, you said Fantomex hasn't dealt with magic in that other thread?
Chi empowerment is essentially magic. 🙂
I think I caved in too easily when I answered this thread last time. I'm just saying, his sense are essentially a variation on Matt Murdoch's radar sense, and they're also fueled by magic dragons chi.
Fantomex has a really nice record, I'm only saying Danny has abilities and range up there with the best. Heck, he beat Matt's radar sense in Brubaker's Daredevil run, and it was Matts own title.
As I argued earlier, that Chi is basically a magic elixir that cures a very, very wide range of problems. Examples include:
0. The demon possessing Daredevil, who even Ghost Rider could not affect with hellfire.
1. The Spider-Virus
2. Mind control/brainwashing.
3. Poison.
4. Cancer (And as we know, Deadpool, who has a healing factor second to none, can live with it, but he can't actually "cure" it.)
5. Magic/sorcery.
6. Ageing on other people.
7. Death itself. ( Temp basis, but he actually chi amped himself from a ghost back into flesh and blood. And clothes,)
As good as Fantomex is, it is not beyond the realm of possibility that a good Chi amping inhibits the misdirects effects.
not exactly sure HOW it would inhibit the misdirect, but magic is always a deus ex machina--if you view chi as magic. which i'm not sure i do...
i don't recall mentioning anything about magic in the other thread, but i could have as i don't recall him ever dealing with magic. style might have said something about it. /shrug
Originally posted by leonidas
not exactly sure HOW it would inhibit the misdirect, but magic is always a deus ex machina--if you view chi as magic. which i'm not sure i do...i don't recall mentioning anything about magic in the other thread, but i could have as i don't recall him ever dealing with magic. style might have said something about it. /shrug
May have been Style.
Didn't you question whether it would work on Matt's blindness? On what basis?
The misdirected work on localized reality manipulation. Are they actual physical objects? Or shades without substance?
If the latter, Danny just may be able to detect that, the same way Matt would. And obviously, if they're real things, it should work even on Matt..
In which case I revert to my fallback plan, and point out Danny once healed from a gunshot wound through the heart, and recently fought Diamondback with a broken back, so Fantomex has some chance of flubbing his kill attempt and being taken down after the fact. 😉
Edit: Just want to clarify, an example is posted earlier of Dan detecting a phase shifter at the moment of phasing, just as he was about to throw a punch.
I understand Fantomex can fool the likes of Emma Frost, and other powerful telepathy, but radar like senses are something a bit different.
And even more so, combining the ability to sense chi/life force. Can Fantomex fake chi in other beings?
Originally posted by cdtm
May have been Style.Didn't you question whether it would work on Matt's blindness? On what basis?
The misdirected work on localized reality manipulation. Are they actual physical objects? Or shades without substance?
If the latter, Danny just may be able to detect that, the same way Matt would. And obviously, if they're real things, it should work even on Matt..
In which case I revert to my fallback plan, and point out Danny once healed from a gunshot wound through the heart, and recently fought Diamondback with a broken back, so Fantomex has some chance of flubbing his kill attempt and being taken down after the fact. 😉
Edit: Just want to clarify, an example is posted earlier of Dan detecting a phase shifter at the moment of phasing, just as he was about to throw a punch.
I understand Fantomex can fool the likes of Emma Frost, and other powerful telepathy, but radar like senses are something a bit different.
And even more so, combining the ability to sense chi/life force. Can Fantomex fake chi in other beings?
you're asking impossible questions that could only be answered by whoever authored the story.
would it work on matt? i dunno for sure, but maybe. like i said before--SHIP isn't 'alive' in a standard way. it doesn't 'see' like a person, but through sensors, and it was fooled, so that leads me to think classic sight isn't a necessity. he even misdirected emotions:
are they physical? well, the person misdirected certainly perceives them as physical. like logan thinking he's cut off fantomex's arms:
and that logan was actually under the influence of shadow king... an impressive feat imo. the true nature of his power is still undefined afaik. his misdirect tends to be very quick--just long enough for him to be able to kill (he was created as a weapon don't forget). do i think shang can see through it or would have time to chi-counter it? no. could shang survive being shot in the head? beats me, but pretty sure that would be the result here.
Shadow King and Logan. Holy crap, that's impressive.
How was this guy cracked again?
I'll be honest, it's hard to find a 1 for 1 example here. I can point to the dragons chi potency, by bringing up the fact it can hurt even a Phoenix avatar/the PF itself.
Or mention it protecting him from an endless void that would have killed anyone else, or pointed out the fact it reversed sorcery based brainwashing AND conventional brainwashing (It works by automatically cleansing his body when he amps himself.)
None of those things is really proof he can chi nullify a misdirect, though.
That's the problem with powers as specific as misdirect, it's hard to apply other feats to it.
I suppose if I was really cheap and in a fanboy mood, I can claim he gets shot in the head and self reincarnates, but even I know the match ends on the first death, so..
But yeah, how was the md beaten?
Originally posted by cdtm
Shadow King and Logan. Holy crap, that's impressive.How was this guy cracked again?
I'll be honest, it's hard to find a 1 for 1 example here. I can point to the dragons chi potency, by bringing up the fact it can hurt even a Phoenix avatar/the PF itself.
Or mention it protecting him from an endless void that would have killed anyone else, or pointed out the fact it reversed sorcery based brainwashing AND conventional brainwashing (It works by automatically cleansing his body when he amps himself.)
None of those things is really proof he can chi nullify a misdirect, though.
That's the problem with powers as specific as misdirect, it's hard to apply other feats to it.
I suppose if I was really cheap and in a fanboy mood, I can claim he gets shot in the head and self reincarnates, but even I know the match ends on the first death, so..
But yeah, how was the md beaten?
it's usually broken over time--the victim may 'logic' out some inconsistency in the reality. apocalypse did that after having been in it for a while then he struck an 'illusioned' fantomex and it broke. jamie braddock realized the same thing and was actually able to reality warp it away. dark beast prepped against it, and iceman didn't fall for it once because he has shifted his consciousness away from the clone body that the attempt was aimed at. a deathlok was able to resist it once, which is a bit odd, given that it worked on SHIP, but in general, it really isn't beaten, almost ever. it usually works, even if only for a long enough time to distract, or allow him to kill. it's pretty hax. /shrug
So, reading through Uncanny Xforce, I see how he took Pestilence down.
He still took a hit, that exploded his spleen. Then switched the scene, and KO'd her.
As is, looks to me like this comes down to whether Danny can one shot him, before he gets killed. If he KNOWS about Fantomex's abilities, he can try making a beeline for his location, and one shot him with something. Even if Fantomex can change the scene, if he knows beforehand what he's capable of, he can ignore it and complete his attack. With his speed, combined with limited range energy attacks....?
Well, it's something, at least.