Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Yeah Itachi would loose against Sharingan Obito more often than anything. I mean he does have Izanagi in case Itachi gets a good hit in and I'm not sure genjutsu would do much of anything.As for this gauntlet, Itachi stops at Sasori. Genjutsu is useless an Amateratsu shots are limited. Then again there is Susanoo but shouldn't he be taxed out by that point?
Oh and does Itachi get Izanami for this gauntlet? Because if he does then he could probably clear.
Itachi can use Izanagi too since he can use Izanami and is much more skilled than Obito.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
Obito barely uses his Rinnegan.That said if Itachi could kill Obito so casually one wonders why he...well didn't.
Though he did try and fail miserably using Sasuke as the medium. Obito just kinda laughed it off. But Obito's feats are simply better.
What better feats? Getting wrecked by Minato despite possessing Kurama, having trouble against Konan, or losing to Kakashi?
By the same notion, Obito knew that Itachi was a spy, so why didn't he kill him? He even had his Akatsuki backup (Nagato would obviously back "Madara" up, and Itachi didn't want to fck with that) to rely on. Reason is plot.
Itachi had fully mastered Sharingan by the age of 8. Obito got his basic 2-tomoe Sharingan by the age of 13, same age as Itachi when he awakened his Mangekyou Sharingan. He's also hailed as the greatest and most gifted ninja to ever graduate from the
academy at Konoha (guess who had graduated from that same academy years prior? http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/31100000/Minato-Namikaze-zekrom676-31193830-958-718.jpg)
Originally posted by Q99
He lacks Senju DNA, though, so at best he could do the split-second version, to Obito's multi-minute one.And Obito's pretty darn skilled himself.
Yeah I forgot about that part, good catch. But still, it'd cost Obito an eye and Itachi more than likely already knows about Izanagi, so he definitely knows how overcome it (with his mastery and vast knowledge over Sharingan and the whole "every jutsu has a weakness" thing)
I honestly don't think Obito comes close to Itachi's level of skill based on what we've seen, but that could just be me.
Originally posted by TheTyrant
What better feats? Getting wrecked by Minato despite possessing Kurama, having trouble against Konan, or losing to Kakashi?By the same notion, Obito knew that Itachi was a spy, so why didn't he kill him? He even had his Akatsuki backup (Nagato would obviously back "Madara" up, and Itachi didn't want to fck with that) to rely on. Reason is plot.
Itachi had fully mastered Sharingan by the age of 8. Obito got his basic 2-tomoe Sharingan by the age of 13, same age as Itachi when he awakened his Mangekyou Sharingan. He's also hailed as the greatest and most gifted ninja to ever graduate from the
academy at Konoha (guess who had graduated from that same academy years prior? http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/31100000/Minato-Namikaze-zekrom676-31193830-958-718.jpg)
Better feats like fighting off Guy, Kakashi, Naruto, and Bee. Naruto is much faster than anything Itachi has faced and Obito reacted to him fine and dandy without needing Kamui. Sure Kakashi beat him but by that point Obito had literally been fighting an entire day and already showed signs of exhaustion.
Because Obito wanted him in order to manipulate Sasuke. Itachi wanted to kill Obito pretty clearly but never managed to.
Neato. Now if this was a contest about which shinobi had inherently more talent then you might have an argument. Alas it is a comparison of feats and Obito's are better.
Originally posted by TheTyrant
Yeah I forgot about that part, good catch. But still, it'd cost Obito an eye and Itachi more than likely already knows about Izanagi, so he definitely knows how overcome it (with his mastery and vast knowledge over Sharingan and the whole "every jutsu has a weakness" thing)I honestly don't think Obito comes close to Itachi's level of skill based on what we've seen, but that could just be me.
His fight with Minato was pretty impressive in my book. His taijutsu seems quite high.
Originally posted by Q99
His fight with Minato was pretty impressive in my book. His taijutsu seems quite high.
He got stomped into the ground even with Kurama though. I can't see that happening at all if Itachi fought Minato with Kurama under his control.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
Better feats like fighting off Guy, Kakashi, Naruto, and Bee.
RM Naruto and B were both falling under Itachi's casual genjutsu and they were also aware that any of Itachi's high level abilities would end them.
http://94.23.34.161/manga/mangas/Naruto/549%20-%20Itachi%27s%20Question!!/13.png
http://94.23.34.161/manga/mangas/Naruto/549%20-%20Itachi%27s%20Question!!/14.png
Kakashi's been crushed by Mangekyouless Itachi on two different occasions, both pre time skip and post time skip. Hell, the second time which they fought, it wasn't even the real Itachi who was toying with him and 3 other people. And that was like one of Itachi's last days to live since his sickness, and he was also half blind at that point, as noted by Kakashi. How much stronger do you think Kakashi has gotten since then? Not much for sure, since the dude's like 30 and a couple of months isn't changing much about him. Gai's only fast and Itachi's Sharingan perception/movement reading/limited precog would enable him to read Gai like an open book.
Plus, Obito was going to lose that fight anyway. Naruto punched his mask off and then Kakashi (who was also worn down since Kamui and MS overuse) soloed him afterwards. It's not like Kakashi was at his prime and in tip-top condition when he beat down Obito.
Naruto is much faster than anything Itachi has faced
Prime Itachi was keeping up with RM Naruto just fine. In fact, it was clearly implied that Itachi was still better than Naruto at that point.
So Naruto admitted that they have no chance vs Itachi's Tsukuyomi which he can, and has, performed instantly, even if they don't look into his eyes. I can't recall whether it was BM Naruto or RM Naruto who punched Obito's mask off, but I don't think the difference is that high.
and Obito reacted to him fine and dandy without needing Kamui.
Ok? Itachi was casually blitzing Kakashi and Kurenai. Kakashi has learned new techniques and has better use of his Sharingan now, but there's no reason to believe that he's much, if at all, faster than he was before the time skip. Kakashi was keeping up with Obito just fine however.
Sure Kakashi beat him but by that point Obito had literally been fighting an entire day and already showed signs of exhaustion.
As I said above, Itachi literally had days to live due to his illness and was said to be half blind when he fought Kakashi post timeskip. Not to mention that it wasn't even the real Itachi who they were fighting, not to mention backup, not to mention the fact that Itachi didn't use Mangekyou Sharingan at all. So you tell me who had the biggest disadvantage vs Kakshi, Obito or Itachi? :/
Because Obito wanted him in order to manipulate Sasuke. Itachi wanted to kill Obito pretty clearly but never managed to.
He wanted to kill Obito if he ever tried to manipulate Sasuke to join his side. Hence why Itachi programmed his Sharingan into Sasuke's eye for that Amaterasu. We saw that Itachi put his village and little brother's life above his own life, so if he was ordered to kill Obito, or knew for a fact that Obito would manipulate Sasuke while he was alive, then he would have went after Obito's head for himself rather than rely on his unreliable Amaterasu plan. Plus, Itachi thought that Obito was really Madara, and he knew that Nagato is extremely powerful, so he was probably somewhat intimidated.
Bottom line is, Itachi has two evolved Sharingan and Obito has only one. Literally only ability Obito gets from his single Mangekyou Sharingan is Kamui. No Susano'o, no Amaterasu, no Tsukuyomi, nothing.
Konan did so well because of prep. If it was Itachi instead of Obito fighting her, do you seriously think he'd be able to survive 600 billion explosive tags?
Kakashi did so well because he could counter Obito's technique. Without that Itachi is ****ed since theres nothing Itachi can do to him and Obito can pwn him with a single touch.
Originally posted by TheTyrant
RM Naruto and B were both falling under Itachi's casual genjutsu and they were also aware that any of Itachi's high level abilities would end them.http://94.23.34.161/manga/mangas/Naruto/549%20-%20Itachi%27s%20Question!!/13.png
http://94.23.34.161/manga/mangas/Naruto/549%20-%20Itachi%27s%20Question!!/14.png
Neat. Considering I'm not arguing against Itachi's abilities to casually use genjutsu on his foes I fail to see your point. Still doesn't match Tobi fighting off all four of them since Itachi has Nagato fighting along side him.
Originally posted by TheTyrant
Kakashi's been crushed by Mangekyouless Itachi on two different occasions, both pre time skip and post time skip. Hell, the second time which they fought, it wasn't even the real Itachi who was toying with him and 3 other people. And that was like one of Itachi's last days to live since his sickness, and he was also half blind at that point, as noted by Kakashi. How much stronger do you think Kakashi has gotten since then? Not much for sure, since the dude's like 30 and a couple of months isn't changing much about him. Gai's only fast and Itachi's Sharingan perception/movement reading/limited precog would enable him to read Gai like an open book.
Kakashi has gone from being placed in a hospital for using Kamui twice to being able to use it 4 times on larger targets in addition to other techniques like Raikiri and his clones. Safe to say he is way stronger now. Not that your argument is true. In the first battle Itachi did use his MS to beat him and in the second Itachi lost without any significant drain on Kakashi(he barely needed to use any techniques). And yes Itachi could probably read Guy's movements and fight him off. Unimpressive next to Obito's ability to do so while fighting other characters.
Originally posted by TheTyrant
Plus, Obito was going to lose that fight anyway. Naruto punched his mask off and then Kakashi (who was also worn down since Kamui and MS overuse) soloed him afterwards. It's not like Kakashi was at his prime and in tip-top condition when he beat down Obito.
Punching his mask off=/=significantly harming him to the point where he can't fight. And Kakashi was in far better condition than Obito was at the start of the fight since Obito wasn't getting free chakra boosts like Kakashi was from Naruto.
Originally posted by TheTyrant
Prime Itachi was keeping up with RM Naruto just fine. In fact, it was clearly implied that Itachi was still better than Naruto at that point.So Naruto admitted that they have no chance vs Itachi's Tsukuyomi which he can, and has, performed instantly, even if they don't look into his eyes. I can't recall whether it was BM Naruto or RM Naruto who punched Obito's mask off, but I don't think the difference is that high.
Which is still nothing compared to Obito fighting off Naruto and the others with only his MS really.
The difference is quite high since Naruto reacted to several point blank Bijuudama. Hell the anime implies(since the manga is vague) that Naruto's sheer speed alone is what deflected them since he isn't touching them.
Originally posted by TheTyrant
Ok? Itachi was casually blitzing Kakashi and Kurenai. Kakashi has learned new techniques and has better use of his Sharingan now, but there's no reason to believe that he's much, if at all, faster than he was before the time skip. Kakashi was keeping up with Obito just fine however.As I said above, Itachi literally had days to live due to his illness and was said to be half blind when he fought Kakashi post timeskip. Not to mention that it wasn't even the real Itachi who they were fighting, not to mention backup, not to mention the fact that Itachi didn't use Mangekyou Sharingan at all. So you tell me who had the biggest disadvantage vs Kakshi, Obito or Itachi? :/
Kakashi was keeping up with Itachi just fine in that fight until he pulled out the MS. Would he have lost eventually? Sure. But you act like he wasn't able to do anything to Itachi which simply isn't true. And again Obito was way more tired.
We see no effects of the illness until the Sasuke fight so we can't determine how he was being affected at the time of this fight. Mind you why you're using this fight that Itachi lost quite easily I can't say. He did all of three things in that fight: cast a genjutsu on Naruto who sucks against genjutsu, shoot a fireball that did nothing, and cast a genjutsu on a clone that was holding its own quite easily in hand to hand. Itachi was thoroughly unimpressive and yes Obito's is still more impressive since he couldn't use his MS and was also exhausted from a literal day of fighting. I mean just look at him before he squared off against Kakashi in a one on one and tell me he looks prime condition.
Originally posted by TheTyrant
He wanted to kill Obito if he ever tried to manipulate Sasuke to join his side. Hence why Itachi programmed his Sharingan into Sasuke's eye for that Amaterasu. We saw that Itachi put his village and little brother's life above his own life, so if he was ordered to kill Obito, or knew for a fact that Obito would manipulate Sasuke while he was alive, then he would have went after Obito's head for himself rather than rely on his unreliable Amaterasu plan. Plus, Itachi thought that Obito was really Madara, and he knew that Nagato is extremely powerful, so he was probably somewhat intimidated.Bottom line is, Itachi has two evolved Sharingan and Obito has only one. Literally only ability Obito gets from his single Mangekyou Sharingan is Kamui. No Susano'o, no Amaterasu, no Tsukuyomi, nothing.
Which Itachi knew he would do. Itachi knew Obito would go after Sasuke yet aside from the Amaterasu plan which accomplished nothing he failed to take any action.
Kamui is stronger than all of those. Hell I could be a dick and point out Obito should still be able to summon the Gedo Mazo which puts to shame any of Itachi's techniques.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Konan did so well because of prep. If it was Itachi instead of Obito fighting her, do you seriously think he'd be able to survive 600 billion explosive tags?Kakashi did so well because he could counter Obito's technique. Without that Itachi is ****ed since theres nothing Itachi can do to him and Obito can pwn him with a single touch.
She learned about his weakness, as did Minato during a brief fight. Itachi can easily do the same thing, since he's said to be the greatest prodigy Konoha's ever produced, not to mention that Obito has no way of getting past Susano'o other than Kamui next to Itachi just to get Totsuka through his heart.
What are Konan's papers going to do vs Susano'o? Or what's her answer to instant Tsukuyomi or genjutsu? She'd die in a second if Itachi was out to get her. Itachi's one-paneled Orochimaru and Deidara. You think Konan can last longer than that with the same prep that she had vs Obito?
Originally posted by AuraAngel
Neat. Considering I'm not arguing against Itachi's abilities to casually use genjutsu on his foes I fail to see your point. Still doesn't match Tobi fighting off all four of them since Itachi has Nagato fighting along side him.
Bro, those four people wouldn't last very long against prime Itachi since Itachi can cast his genjutsu at any time, from huge a distance, on multiple people.
Naruto and B can't fight Itachi's Tsukuyomi. Kakashi can resist it for a bit, but he'd fall too eventually. Gai would think that not looking into his eyes would be enough to avoid genjutsu, so he'd get wrecked too.
And again, what are they going to do vs Susano'o equipped with Yata Mirror?
Kakashi has gone from being placed in a hospital for using Kamui twice to being able to use it 4 times on larger targets in addition to other techniques like Raikiri and his clones.
Was this before or after the Itachi fight?
In the first battle Itachi did use his MS to beat him.
and in the second Itachi lost without any significant drain on Kakashi(he barely needed to use any techniques).
And yes Itachi could probably read Guy's movements and fight him off. Unimpressive next to Obito's ability to do so while fighting other characters.
He's not going to need to read anything since he has Susano'o, something that Obito lacks. Again, what are those four going to do against completed Susano'o? How are they even surviving the Totsuka slash?
Punching his mask off=/=significantly harming him to the point where he can't fight. And Kakashi was in far better condition than Obito was at the start of the fight since Obito wasn't getting free chakra boosts like Kakashi was from Naruto.
Kakashi was in better condition than Obito, but he was perfectly fine against Itachi and had an S(ish) class shinobi with him as well for backup. Fact is, Itachi was at a much, much weaker state than Obito.
Which is still nothing compared to Obito fighting off Naruto and the others with only his MS really.[b]
Again, what are these guys going to do against Susano'o equipped with Yata Mirror?
[b]The difference is quite high since Naruto reacted to several point blank Bijuudama. Hell the anime implies(since the manga is vague) that Naruto's sheer speed alone is what deflected them since he isn't touching them.
So it was BM who punched Obito's mask off?
Kakashi was keeping up with Itachi just fine in that fight until he pulled out the MS. Would he have lost eventually? Sure. But you act like he wasn't able to do anything to Itachi which simply isn't true. And again Obito was way more tired.
Kakashi couldn't even keep up with Itachi's handsigns. The only reason he was "keeping up" was because of
1. Itachi obviously holding back. His whole purpose there was to leak information about Akatsuki to Konoha and show to Danzo that he's still alive.
2. Kakashi couldn't read Itachi so he was assuming the worst case scenario at every turn. Kakashi said this himself.
We see no effects of the illness until the Sasuke fight so we can't determine how he was being affected at the time of this fight.
That fight was on the same day as Sasuke vs Itachi, so of course Itachi was being torn apart on the inside.
look at him before he squared off against Kakashi in a one on one and tell me he looks prime condition.
He doesn't even look that bad, lol. Just torn clothes and a couple of small bruises here and there.
Which Itachi knew he would do. Itachi knew Obito would go after Sasuke yet aside from the Amaterasu plan which accomplished nothing he failed to take any action.
Plot hole then. Itachi was clearly willing to give up everything for Sasuke and his village.
Kamui is stronger than all of those. Hell I could be a dick and point out Obito should still be able to summon the Gedo Mazo which puts to shame any of Itachi's techniques.
What's Gedo Maza going to do against Susano'o again? How is it surviving Amaterasu? Plus, that's not really a 1v1.
If Obito could use any of Rinnegan's significant abilities other than the Paths, then he'd probably win, but he really can't use either of his eyes to their full potential.
Originally posted by TheTyrant
Bro, those four people wouldn't last very long against prime Itachi since Itachi can cast his genjutsu at any time, from huge a distance, on multiple people.Naruto and B can't fight Itachi's Tsukuyomi. Kakashi can resist it for a bit, but he'd fall too eventually. Gai would think that not looking into his eyes would be enough to avoid genjutsu, so he'd get wrecked too.
And again, what are they going to do vs Susano'o equipped with Yata Mirror?
Ah so Itachi>Guy, Naruto BM, Kakashi, and Killer Bee at the same time? Good to know.
Yes Itachi would harm them with Tsukuyomi. Which is why they won't look at his eyes. Since that is the only way for him to cast Tsukuyomi.
As for Susano'o idk what they'd do. If only they had a guy who could tear holes in space and time with a glance! Oh if only they had two mountain busters who could repeatedly shoot out said blasts that dwarf anything the Yata Mirror has ever proven itself against apparently.
Originally posted by TheTyrant
Was this before or after the Itachi fight?
His Kamui limit was 2 during the fight and 4 seems to be his average now.
Originally posted by TheTyrant
No he didn't. Look at his eye designs. He used a Mangekyou Sharingan ability without the intention to kill however.
You mean the eye design Kishimoto deliberately hid from us so as to tease the new eye technique? By that logic Obito can just casually use Kamui without MS. Mind you it is irrelevant which eye was being used if it is the same technique.
Originally posted by TheTyrant
That's because Itachi was just testing the waters and left of his own accord. He was just there to see Naruto's progress (hence the smile at the end) since he was going to fight his last fight that very same day.
Yeah those repeated looks of shock were clearly indicating that he had everything under control.
Originally posted by TheTyrant
He's not going to need to read anything since he has Susano'o, something that Obito lacks. Again, what are those four going to do against completed Susano'o? How are they even surviving the Totsuka slash?
Kamui, Bijuu Bombs, I would argue Afternoon Tiger is also impressive enough to blow a whole through Susano'o if it got a clean hit in. Never mind all three are stupidly fast. And for starters the Totsuka only seals things via stab not slash. And second Kamui ports it away. Or just ports away Itachi.
Originally posted by TheTyrant
Kakashi was in better condition than Obito, but he was perfectly fine against Itachi and had an S(ish) class shinobi with him as well for backup. Fact is, Itachi was at a much, much weaker state than Obito.
Like hell he was. Kakashi and Naruto literally beat Itachi within 2-4 chapters. Obito, by the time Kakashi defeated him, had been fighting non-stop for 50+ chapters. And Kakashi has 3 S class ninja on his side, one of which could kick Itachi's ass on his own honestly.
Originally posted by TheTyrant
Again, what are these guys going to do against Susano'o equipped with Yata Mirror?
Kamui and Bijuu bombs. According to what you think the Yata Mirror has no feats worth a damn to stop the latter from just blowing Itachi up.
Originally posted by TheTyrant
So it was BM who punched Obito's mask off?
Rasengan'd but yes.
Originally posted by TheTyrant
Kakashi couldn't even keep up with Itachi's handsigns. The only reason he was "keeping up" was because of
1. Itachi obviously holding back. His whole purpose there was to leak information about Akatsuki to Konoha and show to Danzo that he's still alive.
2. Kakashi couldn't read Itachi so he was assuming the worst case scenario at every turn. Kakashi said this himself.
1. You may be right but this is the only showing we have and Itachi did not utterly crush him.
2. Scans for this? Only seeing shitty ones but Kakashi is reacting to everything perfectly and Itachi is very complimentary.
Originally posted by TheTyrant
That fight was on the same day as Sasuke vs Itachi, so of course Itachi was being torn apart on the inside.He doesn't even look that bad, lol. Just torn clothes and a couple of small bruises here and there.
Kakashi never fought Itachi on such a day. Granted Tobi did fight Kakashi and utterly toyed with him while Sasuke fought his brother. The Konoha nin could literally not touch the guy.
Like hell he doesn't. The guy is shaking from fatigue. At this point he'd taken a Rasengan to the arm, a punch to the gut so hard he coughed up blood, and oh yeah got his arm cut off. Then there is the little matter of his fighting all day.
Originally posted by TheTyrant
Plot hole then. Itachi was clearly willing to give up everything for Sasuke and his village.
It doesn't support your opinion but it is a plot hole? I think Itachi didn't kill Obito himself because he couldn't and that doesn't create a plot hole and is consistent with the feats.
Originally posted by TheTyrant
What's Gedo Maza going to do against Susano'o again? How is it surviving Amaterasu? Plus, that's not really a 1v1.If Obito could use any of Rinnegan's significant abilities other than the Paths, then he'd probably win, but he really can't use either of his eyes to their full potential.
The Gedo Mazo could literally pick up the Susano'o and throw it for starters.
Too bad his Kamui is perhaps the single greatest technique in the manga. It is almost unquestionably the greatest defensive technique. He doesn't need the Rinnegan.
Originally posted by Q99
Izanami costs an eye too, and it wouldn't work on those able to accept reality.
He'd only have to use it on Kisame. And even then, he'd slice Kisame in half before any consideration of the loop being broken could occur.
-----------------
Itachi starts having problems at Sasori and he'll be severely winded by the time he hits Kisame, by Izanagi clears it for him.
Originally posted by Damborgson
He'd only have to use it on Kisame. And even then, he'd slice Kisame in half before any consideration of the loop being broken could occur.-----------------
Itachi starts having problems at Sasori and he'll be severely winded by the time he hits Kisame, by Izanagi clears it for him.
The problem is that we're not sure Itachi would have the chakra or stamina at this point to pull that off.
Also Itachi doesn't have Senju DNA so he'd only get the split-second version of Izanagi assuming he could use it at all.
Funny thing is Itachi could take everyone in this gauntlet and win if he was fighting them in a separate fight and not a gauntlet. However altogether I still think he stops at Sasori...unless of course he uses Susanoo but then Kisame definitely finishes it.
