Originally posted by MF DELPH
Get it while you can brotha.And yeah, I got pulled in. Won't happen again. lol
Have to man... Now that I'm relatively free from distractions [lol] I'm trying to make some financial moves, getting ready to move into a larger place etc...
Needless to say I have had next to no time to read anything related to my favorite pastimes...
Apoc is fairly relevant again no?
Originally posted by carver9
Onslaught used his powers against Hulk.
LoL...
Onslaught could have just teleported Hulk away to another dimension and been done with it...
Or he could have defeated him countless other ways (he could have teleported him into the heart of that 2nd sun he created; its not like Hulk could fly out of it) ,but no...its the Hulk...must mindless brawl and forget all other powers and abilities as a result.
Originally posted by Stoic
Not really as simple as you may believe. The Hulk isn't a static target that will just stand there and take hits. This isn't a turn based RPG, but it supposed to be a portrayal of how a real fight would occur. if you took how fast the Hulk can move and that his strengths lie in getting in close, you will see why many attacks simply aren't that effective. Many of Thor's attacks would be very difficult to release with a guy of the Hulk's considerable strength bearing down on him. Thor for example would be forced to engage him in a melee battle. This also goes for several other characters. In Onslaught's case, he fought a pure rage monster, and had nothing to exploit on a mental level, so he was forced to go melee.
Even in your most optimistic scenario, Thor still dominates that match up eventually... He's no slouch in the pure muscle department as he's always been a peer of the Hulk, so even if banner were to get up close and personal it's not as if he's just going to flat out dominate Thor in a physical contest right from the out set. Now if somehow it becomes melee for an extended period, then sure... Hulk will eventually become too much for Thor to handle...
But CIS off? Banner gets gamma drained, lorn super duper white lightning bolted into oblivion (whatever that shit is called), wind blasts of a billion-trillion-fafillion worlds or bfr'd before he could even blink...
I mean seriously, it's not as if Thor hadn't taken on one of the most powerful incarnations of the Hulk in direct melee combat (with hammers no less) and booted his ass off of the Earth or anything...
Originally posted by dmills
Even in your most optimistic scenario, Thor still dominates that match up eventually... He's no slouch in the pure muscle department as he's always been a peer of the Hulk, so even if banner were to get up close and personal it's not as if he's just going to flat out dominate Thor in a physical contest right from the out set. Now if somehow it becomes melee for an extended period, then sure... Hulk will eventually become too much for Thor to handle...But CIS off? Banner gets gamma drained, lorn super duper white lightning bolted into oblivion (whatever that shit is called), wind blasts of a billion-trillion-fafillion worlds or bfr'd before he could even blink...
I mean seriously, it's not as if Thor hadn't taken on one of the most powerful incarnations of the Hulk in direct melee combat (with hammers no less) and booted his ass off of the Earth or anything...
The old Hulk of 20 or so years ago and more took 5 minutes to break the 100 ton mark. How fast does the Hulk ramp up these days, because I could have sworn that I saw him using planetary levels of strength within several seconds on Sakaar. If he could attain that level within several seconds it would not take very long to eclipse even Thor's level of strength. it's happened far too often for it to be solely PIS that he was able to keep Thor from going purely exotic. He has also resisted these forces that you brought up, so how long should it take for people to come to the realization that the Hulk can tank forces like that? How long should it take for people to realize that the Hulk is very fast, and is able to close the gap between himself and his opponent before they are able to keep the fight a distanced one? The hulk's entire history says that he can stay right in guys like Thor's faces, and force the battle to become or remain a melee scrimmage.
Originally posted by Stoic
The old Hulk of 20 or so years ago and more took 5 minutes to break the 100 ton mark. How fast does the Hulk ramp up these days, because I could have sworn that I saw him using planetary levels of strength within several seconds on Sakaar. If he could attain that level within several seconds it would not take very long to eclipse even Thor's level of strength. it's happened far too often for it to be solely PIS that he was able to keep Thor from going purely exotic. He has also resisted these forces that you brought up, so how long should it take for people to come to the realization that the Hulk can tank forces like that? How long should it take for people to realize that the Hulk is very fast, and is able to close the gap between himself and his opponent before they are able to keep the fight a distanced one? The hulk's entire history says that he can stay right in guys like Thor's faces, and force the battle to become or remain a melee scrimmage.
Nothing in the direct confrontations supports the claim that Banner could rocket past Thor physically in mere seconds. He's got some phenomenal showings of strength and power outside of the direct confrontations to be certain, however direct confrontations generally (proper context et al considered of course) trump individual feats of power or strength...
And you are correct about the Hulk's underrated speed... Especially being played up under Waid's pen.
In closing, all I'm saying is this. Hulk vs Thor with CIS/PIS set aside, Banner would get smoked by a Thor wielding Mjolnir to it's fullest potential. It's damn near axiomatic... Dat hammer... Man... That's all I got... If you differ with me I'm sure some Thor bag will be along shortly to pick up the slack lol... Later brotha.
Originally posted by dmills
Even in your most optimistic scenario, Thor still dominates that match up eventually... He's no slouch in the pure muscle department as he's always been a peer of the Hulk, so even if banner were to get up close and personal it's not as if he's just going to flat out dominate Thor in a physical contest right from the out set. Now if somehow it becomes melee for an extended period, then sure... Hulk will eventually become too much for Thor to handle...
Hes no slouch in terms of strength but i always felt that Hulk tended to "forget" his dynamic strength in Thor's presence just as much as Thor might forget some of his other powers. Not so much these days - Marve seems less reluctant to show Hulk as perhaps a lot stronger than Thor whereas in the olden days it seemed like a touchy subject.
But CIS off? Banner gets gamma drained, lorn super duper white lightning bolted into oblivion (whatever that shit is called), wind blasts of a billion-trillion-fafillion worlds or bfr'd before he could even blink...
Meh. If you said "Thor could use more lightning" or something then sure. But Gamma drain? A freaking Lorn bolt? If Thor gets to use these one-off type powers (or not even quite one-off in the case of the Lorn Bolt) then I think Hulk gets every chance to just tank that shit as he has done many times in his history.
I mean seriously, it's not as if Thor hadn't taken on one of the most powerful incarnations of the Hulk in direct melee combat (with hammers no less) and booted his ass off of the Earth or anything...
...after declaring he could never beat Hulk - even though he had just killed someone he considered a friend - and then collapsing unconscious while Hulk rampaged through the other side of the world and crumbled a roughly Mjolnir equivalent weapon in his bare hands. It was a great fight (and a great showing for Thor IMO at least) but if anything it played up Hulk in terms of raw power.
BFR is always there as an option for a lot of Hulk's opponents and i cant really fault it but i think people overestimate the number of options that "more versatile" characters have against the Hulk. All depends how you interpret the scene though I suppose.
Originally posted by FifthchildIt has to do with the modern demographic IMO. Hulk's been getting a lot of hype for younger readers especially with the films while Thor has a bit less star power for the audience. I think it's a pretty clear business decision to decide which of the two is "better" but in all honesty I think it sucks from a story perspective. I mean most of the Bruce Banner/Shield development got taken out of the Hulk in recent memory and he's become more of an action Hulk SMASH again. This works great for his feats but its wreaking unholy havoc on his character development. Banner is once again the sideshow of the story and the dilemma between the primal nature of the Hulk and Banner's human traits seems to have completely disappeared let alone the Hulk losing his Noble Savage traits that he gained post WWH. At least thats how I feel about the whole matter doesn't make it 100 percent true for all titles but it's how I see the franchise going.
Hes no slouch in terms of strength but i always felt that Hulk tended to "forget" his dynamic strength in Thor's presence just as much as Thor might forget some of his other powers. Not so much these days - Marve seems less reluctant to show Hulk as perhaps a lot stronger than Thor whereas in the olden days it seemed like a touchy subject.[B]
Meh. If you said "Thor could use more lightning" or something then sure. But Gamma drain? A freaking Lorn bolt? If Thor gets to use these one-off type powers (or not even quite one-off in the case of the Lorn Bolt) then I think Hulk gets every chance to just tank that shit as he has done many times in his history.
[B]
...after declaring he could never beat Hulk - even though he had just killed someone he considered a friend - and then collapsing unconscious while Hulk rampaged through the other side of the world and crumbled a roughly Mjolnir equivalent weapon in his bare hands. It was a great fight (and a great showing for Thor IMO at least) but if anything it played up Hulk in terms of raw power.
BFR is always there as an option for a lot of Hulk's opponents and i cant really fault it but i think people overestimate the number of options that "more versatile" characters have against the Hulk. All depends how you interpret the scene though I suppose.