Wasn't there someone on here a long time ago who showed that COIE AM is overrated because he absorbed the power of universes that were just fragmented smaller and weaker universes that came originally from one whole universe? If that were true then that would make even COIE AM just a universal threat at most.
Originally posted by Marvel_Mystic
Wasn't there someone on here a long time ago who showed that COIE AM is overrated because he absorbed the power of universes that were just fragmented smaller and weaker universes that came originally from one whole universe? If that were true then that would make even COIE AM just a universal threat at most.
Originally posted by Scuzz2.0
AM can't alter reality can he? MJJ thinks him out of existence. What could AM possibly do against that? When you go up against someone who can change reality by thinking it, the only kind of opponent who could stand a chance is someone who is immune or someone with the same powers.
Think him out of existence?? And how often do you think we see MJJ/Fury think multiversal+ beings out of existence, in x-men die by the sword?
AM at his peak, was even above a multiversal+ power...
And it really isn't hard to kill Fury/MJJ, you know:
http://i.imgur.com/V8SiGp6.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/toVKypS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/uCAFNsb.jpg
Only if MJJ is within his warp, he can only be defeated by someone who is immune/high resistance (like the fury)
Originally posted by operator616And how often do you think we see
MJJ/Fury think multiversal+ beings out of existence?AM at his peak, was even above a multiversal+ power...
Originally posted by operator616And it really isn't hard to kill Fury/MJJ, you know:
http://i.imgur.com/V8SiGp6.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/toVKypS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/uCAFNsb.jpg
First,
that's not Fury/MJJ, that's just Fury (Jaspers is inconsequential at this point)
also,
Brian caught the Fury off-guard while it was regenerating right after it had consumed Jaspers,
and while the Fury was healing quickly, it obviously never got to optimal conditions,
which is why Albion and Brian punched a huge hole through its torso,
then comes Blink and dumps her entire pack of energy quills into the hole,
exploding the "vulnerable" Fury. (as Blink stated)
Second,
Claremont certified classic Fury's unbelievable durability feat,
which was ... withstanding cosmic scale spatial-temporal nullification:
[img=http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16921822_Fury1.jpg]
In other words,
an entire universe/eternity-infinity, getting erased from existence and Fury tanking it.
Yet, Albion, Brian and silly energy quills should fair better? stoned ... Nah.
"Die by the Sword" should not be used as a reference point to define Fury/MJJ combined,
because there were circumstances and stipulations involved.
(+ they were never depicted merged anyway, it was always either or)
We should just take the characters as we know them individually, and combine them ourselves.
(Jaspers also never came close to being stopped let alone defeated in Die by the Sword)
Originally posted by operator616Only if MJJ is within his warp,
he can only be defeated by someone who is immune/high resistance (like the fury)
Which is why I won't comment on who could win,
cause cross company established understandings come into conflict.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Remember though opr Jaspers 238 alone was more powerful than Matrix/Merlyn.
As you know, JJ 616 was far more powerful than that still.That's not a really fair assessment of what happened there opr.
First,
that's not Fury/MJJ, that's just Fury (Jaspers is inconsequential at this point)
also,
Brian caught the Fury off-guard while it was regenerating right after it had consumed Jaspers,
and while the Fury was healing quickly, it obviously never got to optimal conditions,
which is why Albion and Brian punched a huge hole through its torso,
then comes Blink and dumps her entire pack of energy quills into the hole,
exploding the "vulnerable" Fury. (as Blink stated)Second,
Claremont certified classic Fury's unbelievable durability feat,
which was ... withstanding cosmic scale spatial-temporal nullification:[img=http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16921822_Fury1.jpg]
In other words,
an entire universe/eternity-infinity, getting erased from existence and Fury tanking it.Yet, Albion, Brian and silly energy quills should fair better? stoned ... Nah.
"Die by the Sword" should not be used as a reference point to define Fury/MJJ combined,
because there were circumstances and stipulations involved.
(+ they were never depicted merged anyway, it was always either or)
We should just take the characters as we know them individually, and combine them ourselves.
(Jaspers also never came close to being stopped let alone defeated in Die by the Sword)
Matrix/Merlin?? this wasn't introduced until Excalibur v1 (in the 90s), though, so it doesn't apply. At the time, Merlin clearly wasn't an omniversal/multiversal power.
In any case, i can prove that Merlyn wasn't that powerful at the time with actual showings, ill post them if needed.
Ok, you're right that Jaspers was inconsequential. And i am aware that there were certain stipulations in its defeat (if you go to MJJ's or Fury's marvunapp page you'll also notice it's stated that MJJ's struggle for control weakened the fury) but that's the version that the OP is using.
I realize what the fury has done in the past but it doesn't take away from the fact that it was destroyed in the story (with the stipulations).
Also, MJJ had some fury's abilities, example:
http://i.imgur.com/ANrgOV6.jpg
And MJJ was about to be defeated toward the end of issue 4, that's why the fury took over in the first place, as explained at the beginning of issue 5:
Originally posted by operator616Matrix/Merlin?? this wasn't introduced until Excalibur v1 (in the
90s), though, so it doesn't apply. At the time, Merlin clearly wasn't
an omniversal/multiversal power.
In any case, i can prove that Merlyn wasn't that powerful at the
time with actual showings, ill post them if needed.
I got em lined up in fact from past debates years prior, let me know.
So, if you're gonna pop up with lowballing pis/senseless showings,
I'll return with all his high-end/properly written feats.
Originally posted by operator616Ok, you're right that Jaspers was inconsequential. And i am
aware that there were certain stipulations in its defeat (if you go to
MJJ's or Fury's marvunapp page you'll also notice it's stated that
MJJ's struggle for control weakened the fury) but that's the version
that the OP is using.I realize what the fury has done in the past but it doesn't take away
from the fact that it was destroyed in the story (with the stipulations).
Originally posted by operator616Also, MJJ had some fury's abilities, example:
Imo, neither Jaspers or Fury displayed any of the other's abilities.
In Jaspers' case, you can't even tell since he controls reality.
Originally posted by operator616And MJJ was about to be defeated toward the end of issue 4,
that's why the fury took over in the first place, as explained at the
beginning of issue 5:
You have a scan that shows Jaspers about to be defeated, in any way shape or form?
I know you do not friend.
The only reason Jaspers was stopped/defeated was due to the
exact same reason he lost the first time around back in the day ... the Fury.
(end of book 4)
[img=http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16926049_MJ1.jpg]
[img=http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16926050_MJ2.jpg]
[img=http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16926051_MJ3.jpg]
The Fury, and nothing else.
So my point stands and is correct:
No one (or more than one) came close to stopping let alone defeating Jaspers.
Except for the Fury ... again.
Lowballing? you think this is what it is? More like what's actually intended to take place.
Im not going to lawball, but im going to show you what actually happened, Captain Britain v1 #36, Merlyn battles Nykonn (a random sorcerer) in a laughable battle, which ends up with Merlyn being essentially powerless:
http://i.imgur.com/h5UZers.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/iZejRfl.jpg
Same thing when Merlyn goes against Mordred in Hulk comic #28:
http://i.imgur.com/xxenq9J.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/kDWZHMh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/eFf3mzt.jpg
Honestly speaking, do you actually think in the above scans Merlyn was portrayed as being an omniversal power? Please.
His bio (1986) certainly doesn't mention absolutely anything about an omniversal/multiversal/universal power up:
http://i.imgur.com/JyDV3fx.jpg?1
I don't believe that Jaspers manifesting Fury abilities to be a coincidence when he's merged with it. Fury is giving him ideas? perhaps, but i find Jaspers having Fury's abilities as the more likely outcome.
The reason Fury took over was because MJJ was threatened, it's right there in the narration. And this is particularly shown in this scan where everyone starts to surround MJJ:
http://i.imgur.com/jzg9fQ1.jpg
Had not fury absorbed the life essence of those MJJ would have lost, that's what i understood from the narration at the beginning of issue 5
Originally posted by operator616
Lowballing? you think this is what it is? More like what's actually intended to take place.
Im not going to lawball, but im going to show you what actually happened, Captain
Britain v1 #36, Merlyn battles Nykonn (a random sorcerer) in a laughable battle,
which ends up with Merlyn being essentially powerless:
http://i.imgur.com/h5UZers.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/iZejRfl.jpg
Same thing when Merlyn goes against Mordred in Hulk comic #28:
http://i.imgur.com/xxenq9J.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/kDWZHMh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/eFf3mzt.jpgHonestly speaking, do you actually think in the above scans Merlyn was portrayed as being an omniversal power? Please.
Let's try other things though shall we. I'll return with note worthy feats.
Like creating Otherworld from scratch. Otherwolrd is a Pan-Dimensional reality.
Or the Starlight Citadel, which is a freakin omniversal Nexus. etc.
Originally posted by operator616
His bio (1986) certainly doesn't mention absolutely anything about an omniversal/multiversal/universal power up:
http://i.imgur.com/JyDV3fx.jpg?1
Originally posted by operator616
I don't believe that Jaspers manifesting Fury abilities to be a coincidence when he's merged with it. Fury is giving him ideas? perhaps, but i find Jaspers having Fury's abilities as the more likely outcome.
[img=http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16926481_MJ4.jpg]
Which is probably why MJJ didn't even understand why he was turning people into Fury facsimiles.
Influence? As in, " given ideas?" ... imo? Yes.
But Jaspers doesn't need anyone to warp reality (make Furys) which is in his power to do so.
Originally posted by operator616
The reason Fury took over was because MJJ was threatened, it's right there in the
narration. And this is particularly shown in this scan where everyone starts to
surround MJJ:
http://i.imgur.com/jzg9fQ1.jpg
The fact that Fury was taking over, messing up Jaspers' game:
[img=http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16926640_MJ1.jpg]
"We hit Jaspers with everything we had. And he destroyed us."
Sabertooth didn't mention how nearly the entire omniversal corp was wiped out. 👆
Jaspers owned everyone that came across him, they jumped him, and it was no use.
Up until the Fury began to take over. Which is the only thing that stopped Jaspers.
It's clear via narration in the scan above, that Jaspers is losing control to the Fury:
"This isn't right"
---------------------------------------------------------
The following scan you pumped again certifies this truth:
"What's going on here? This isn't My doing?" ("ghosts" of metaphor to become those of fact)
"I didn't mean for This to happen."
---------------------------------------------------------
So that's what happened, it can't be denied my friend.
Originally posted by operator616
Had not fury absorbed the life essence of those MJJ would have lost, that's what i
understood from the narration at the beginning of issue 5
Jaspers never once came close to being stopped or losing or anything remotely resembling a loss.
Even when Saturnyne incinerated his inner organs (including brain)
and literally blew his soul out of his body. It still did not give him pause.
Anyway, on this particular detail I will not debate further
cause I'm right and any further discussion is a circle.
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