People that Saesee Tiin have defeated

Fun fact: Actually, he refers to them as "four of the greatest swordsmen our order has ever produced." Four referring to all four.

Pssht. Maybe he was averaging them out ^^

I'm still grinch smirking here, bro. All day every day.

Originally posted by The_Tempest

Spoiler:
He could have been exaggerating to embellish the legend of a man he idolized.

Just imagine the grinch smirk here; I'm getting tired of posting it.

You're reaching bro. That still has nothing to do with opinion. 😬

So you don't deny that is very possible for Kenobi to be full of shit then?

I'm reaching... the heights of genius and looking down at you intellectual ants from afar. You're pathetic.

Well no.

Originally posted by Q99
Pssht. Maybe he was averaging them out ^^

In The Cestus Deception, Kit Fisto is arguably beyond AotC Obi-Wan, and the two share a healthy respect for each other. And Mace's mastery is well known. I suspect the other two were just for filler, with the underlying assumption of "two more decent Jedi masters can't hurt".

Originally posted by The_Tempest
> No. How many times have you plead with your opponents to consider generously the abilities of the Imperial Knights Krayt felled when he staged his coup? They had no feats to speak of but you expect us not to regard them as complete newbz. The difference here is that Tiin (unlike the Knights) is explicitly and consistently noted to not be a "weak feeb" (to borrow one of Kurupt Thanosi's expressions), but a "celebrated swordsman" who is, per Obi-Wan's estimation at least, one of the best ever.

Honestly it seems like practically every PT-era Council member (and most PT-era Masters) is "one of the best ever." That term gets thrown around so often I don't know if it means much anymore.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
> I know you recognize that Sidious is stronger, faster, more skilled, smarter, more successful, [B]better looking, [/B]

Okay... I know beauty is in the beholder's eye but still...

Originally posted by The_Tempest
> and a more talented lover than Krayt.

I think I'm about to be sick.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
In The Cestus Deception, Kit Fisto is arguably beyond AotC Obi-Wan, and the two share a healthy respect for each other. And Mace's mastery is well known. I suspect the other two were just for filler, with the underlying assumption of "two more decent Jedi masters can't hurt".

Yep, my thought as well.

And Tiin is physically strong. If you've got someone already known for their physical agility like Fisto, a more brute force guy can't hurt.

Originally posted by The_Tempest

Well, whatever makes you happy...

The misery of others, mostly.

A suitably sith motive

Saesee Tiin definitely isn't fodder. Guy's got speed feats like moving so fast he appears to be in 3 places at once, strength feats like casually smashing droids with his bare hands (Mace Windu even hints that Saesee Tiin is physically stronger than him) and Force feats like outdoing Mace Windu in a contest of raw telekinetic power. Plus, you know, he's a super telepath.

As for skill, he's noted in the RotS novel as one of the greatest swordsmen ever produced in the Jedi Order's 25,000 year history, and holds up in a sparring match against Mace Windu.

What's more? Shaak Ti downright admits inferiority to all of the B-Team's members too. That includes Tiin.

Saesee Tiin doesn't need to have defeated anyone to be better than mooks like Quinlan Vos. 😎

Originally posted by NewGuy01
As for skill, he's noted in the RotS novel as one of the greatest swordsmen ever produced in the Jedi Order's 25,000 year history, and holds up in a sparring match against Mace Windu.

It seems like everybody and their gran is "one of the greatest swordsmen ever produced in the Jedi Order's 25,000 year history."

*Yoda
*Mace Windu
*Agen Kolar
*Saesee Tiin
*Kit Fisto
*Dooku (while still a Jedi)
* Shaak Ti
* Qui-Gon Jinn
* Anakin
* Obi-Wan
* Sora Bulq

And I'm sure I'm forgetting a few.

Like I said, that term gets thrown around so often I don't know if it means much anymore, especially if they don't have feats to indicate it.

To be fair, that is a small small sample of an order approaching 10,000. In Shatterpoint, Mace laments that a majority of the order focused on the Diplomat's Form and was woefully unprepared for war.

Then you have Jedi knights and masters being destroyed by the likes of Ventress, who is barely a dark jedi in comparison.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You're reaching bro. That still has nothing to do with opinion. 😬

So you don't deny that is very possible for Kenobi to be full of shit then?

I don't think Obi-Wan says "Those four are some of the greatest swordsman in the order... But **** my opinion, because everything I say is Bullshit"

Obi-Wan's opinion would mean a lot more if Fisto and Mace weren't the only ones in that crew with exceptional track records. These are also the only two who do anything besides stand there like morons.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Neph, I think they made him say that they were the the top four swordsman for a reason, despite it just being an Opinion, Obi-Wan himself has the best Soresu in the entire Jedi Order, which puts him UP THERE as a Lightsaber Duelist during the Clone War Era. His opinion means something. It's stupid how people always say "It's an opinion, that's all." They put that in there for a reason.

I don't think Obi-Wan says "Those four are some of the greatest swordsman in the order... But **** my opinion, because everything I say is Bullshit"

Obi-Wans opinion in the same book is also that he's only 'proficient' in Soresu and that the other masters are all superior to him. His view of things could just be skewed by modesty and overestimation, as the writer stressed that he possesses those attributes.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
It seems like everybody and their gran is "one of the greatest swordsmen ever produced in the Jedi Order's 25,000 year history."

*Yoda
*Mace Windu
*Agen Kolar
*Saesee Tiin
*Kit Fisto
*Dooku (while still a Jedi)
* Shaak Ti
* Qui-Gon Jinn
* Anakin
* Obi-Wan
* Sora Bulq

And I'm sure I'm forgetting a few.

Like I said, that term gets thrown around so often I don't know if it means much anymore, especially if they don't have feats to indicate it.

That's because the PT era is full of powerhouse lightsaber duelists.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Saesee Tiin definitely isn't fodder. Guy's got speed feats like moving so fast he appears to be in 3 places at once, strength feats like casually smashing droids with his bare hands (Mace Windu even hints that Saesee Tiin is physically stronger than him) and Force feats like outdoing Mace Windu in a contest of raw telekinetic power. Plus, you know, he's a super telepath.

As for skill, he's noted in the RotS novel as one of the greatest swordsmen ever produced in the Jedi Order's 25,000 year history, and holds up in a sparring match against Mace Windu.

What's more? Shaak Ti downright admits inferiority to all of the B-Team's members too. That includes Tiin.

Saesee Tiin doesn't need to have defeated anyone to be better than mooks like Quinlan Vos. 😎

I think that some individuals achieve great technical proficiency in bladework but they are not gifted Force-users and their effectiveness is poor accordingly. Tinn seems to fit in this category.

In case of lightsaber combat, Force Mastery is actually more relevant then martial skills.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
To be fair, that is a small small sample of an order approaching 10,000. In Shatterpoint, Mace laments that a majority of the order focused on the Diplomat's Form and was woefully unprepared for war.

Then you have Jedi knights and masters being destroyed by the likes of Ventress, who is barely a dark jedi in comparison.

That's true.