Originally posted by abhilegend
Joker did all that stuff as a noob under 6.9 seconds and only two people could break through the reality manipulation, superman and spectre.Wanda's reality manipulation was so filmsy that people like skrull queen were able to break through it.
I could also say that Steel was able to break Joker's reality manipulation, in the arc:
http://i.imgur.com/OStDoAr.jpg?1
And do you actually expect Marvel to wipe out all of its mutants? Also Wanda has probability power, so that sort of helps explain the situation.
Nevertheless she did erase 99% (initially it was 90% then it became 99%) of mutants across the omniverse , as explained in Children's Crusade #6:
http://i.imgur.com/dK7WTlx.jpg?1
I also have further evidence where we see alternate realities suffering from the effects as well.
Fact is, as shown in X Men: Endangered Species, her "no more mutants" spell completely changed all reality:
http://i.imgur.com/nmvbjBr.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/YIOnJkU.jpg
And at the same time, she restored a reality,(History of MU):
http://i.imgur.com/SJhLx4M.jpg?1
You're gonna say that all this is unimpressive? That's better than anything Emperor Joker did, and that's setting aside the Chaos Wave.
Originally posted by operator616
I could also say that Steel was able to break Joker's reality manipulation, in the arc:http://i.imgur.com/OStDoAr.jpg?1
And do you actually expect Marvel to wipe out all of its mutants? Also Wanda has probability power, so that sort of helps explain the situation.
Nevertheless she did erase 99% (initially it was 90% then it became 99%) of mutants across the omniverse , as explained in Children's Crusade #6:
http://i.imgur.com/dK7WTlx.jpg?1
I also have further evidence where we see alternate realities suffering from the effects as well.
Fact is, as shown in X Men: Endangered Species, her "no more mutants" spell completely changed all reality:
http://i.imgur.com/nmvbjBr.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/YIOnJkU.jpgAnd at the same time, she restored a reality,(History of MU):
http://i.imgur.com/SJhLx4M.jpg?1
You're gonna say that all this is unimpressive? That's better than anything Emperor Joker did, and that's setting aside the Chaos Wave.
Nothing of that is more impressive than Joker about to destroy all of reality at his peak of power.
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/strongestwillincreation.jpg
He also destroyed and instantly recreated DCU.
Joker's feat was more than it seemed. Aside from remaking reality, destroying reality, and remaking reality yet again, he also mucked up "all five dimensions"(when he was still a n00b with his powers), as Mxy noted:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/17088419/00.jpg.html
Anywho, if Joker can do this to the Spectre entity:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/17088420/0.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/17088421/1.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/17088422/2.jpg.html
And this to the Quintessence:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/17088423/3.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/17088424/4.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/17088425/5.jpg.html
...He can certainly do the same to Wanda(at the very least), imo. She wasn't exactly untouchable, after all:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/17088438/6.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/17088439/7.jpg.html
Originally posted by Galan007
Joker's feat was more than it seemed. Aside from remaking reality, destroying reality, and remaking reality yet again, he also mucked up "all five dimensions"(when he was still a n00b with his powers), as Mxy noted:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/17088419/00.jpg.htmlAnywho, if Joker can do this to the Spectre entity:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/17088420/0.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/17088421/1.jpg.htmlhttp://www.turboimagehost.com/p/17088422/2.jpg.html
And this to the Quintessence:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/17088423/3.jpg.htmlhttp://www.turboimagehost.com/p/17088424/4.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/17088425/5.jpg.html...He can certainly do the same to Wanda(at the very least), imo. She wasn't exactly untouchable, after all:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/17088438/6.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/17088439/7.jpg.html
@ Galan: Joker causing all the 5 dimensions going haywire is his best feat, imo, especially considering that it happened in the 3rd issue of the arc iirc, he had very little control over the power.
Spectre wasn't really at his best in that time period. Impressive nonetheless.
I never even said who wins regarding this battle, i was just comparing feats.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Not really. Steel basically had some kind of scientific formulas in his head, he still believed 2+2=Fish according to Joker's reality manipulations.Nothing of that is more impressive than Joker about to destroy all of reality at his peak of power.
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/strongestwillincreation.jpg
He also destroyed and instantly recreated DCU.
Doesn't change the fact that he did resist the Joker. Also Joker's influence didn't extend to the entire universe instantly, we see the Quintessence just fine in Superman: emperor Joker, 5th issue of the arc, before Joker takes over.
You posted a scan of Joker's potential he didn't really destroy everything, but he certainly had the potential to. He only destroyed 1 universe and recreated it.
Originally posted by operator616👆 Especially given the sheer size/scale of the higher dimensions.
@ Galan: Joker causing all the 5 dimensions going haywire is his best feat, imo, especially considering that it happened in the 3rd issue of the arc iirc, he had very little control over the power.Spectre wasn't really at his best in that time period. Impressive nonetheless.
I never even said who wins regarding this battle, i was just comparing feats.
Cool beans. Just my opinion, is all.
Originally posted by operator616
@ Galan: Joker causing all the 5 dimensions going haywire is his best feat, imo, especially considering that it happened in the 3rd issue of the arc iirc, he had very little control over the power.Spectre wasn't really at his best in that time period. Impressive nonetheless.
I never even said who wins regarding this battle, i was just comparing feats.
Doesn't change the fact that he did resist the Joker. Also Joker's influence didn't extend to the entire universe instantly, we see the Quintessence just fine in Superman: emperor Joker, 5th issue of the arc, before Joker takes over.
You posted a scan of Joker's potential he didn't really destroy everything, but he certainly had the potential to. He only destroyed 1 universe and recreated it.
Joker was going to destroy everything when Superman stopped him. Mxy and Spectre had to repair whole of space-time to repair the damage caused by him. That confirms what Spectre said.
Originally posted by operator616
And do you actually expect Marvel to wipe out all of its mutants?
Also Wanda has probability power, so that sort of helps explain the
situation.Nevertheless she did erase 99% (initially it was 90% then it became
99%) of mutants across the omniverse , as explained in Children's Crusade #6:http://i.imgur.com/dK7WTlx.jpg?1
I also have further evidence where we see alternate realities
suffering from the effects as well.Fact is, as shown in X Men: Endangered Species,
her "no more mutants" spell completely changed all reality:
http://i.imgur.com/nmvbjBr.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/YIOnJkU.jpg
... We were discussing this very subject back in early Oct. remember opr?
I see you saw what I'd seen.
So, to build on opr's truth:
Wanda (with a thought) remade 616 into 58163. When she did this,
she tore a hole in space-time withIN this "616" (58163 now).
Wanda's power (chaos wave) then spilled out of her newly remade universe
through the hole & swept an unknown number of realities into Otherworld.
In Otherworld,
Wanda's power continued to flow until it reached/Crashed down the Starlight Citadel, which is an omniversal Nexus.
This caused all the Universes connected to mesh and basically tear apart.
We later learned in "Die by the Sword" that indeed,
this omniversal implosion tore everything to pieces.
Now, Roma did state after this happened that the "chaos wave"
could expand further, from the "sundered planes to the sublimity" (wtf)
"perhaps even to the Ascension itself" ('God?'😉
Anyway, on panel it really seemed like only 58163 (formerly 616)
& that area in Otherworld where Roma & co. stood, was what was left.
Imo, writer must've been talking about obscure realms via Roma,
like the Crimson Cosmos, Atleza, Vishanti, WHR ... etc and like-
types
which aren't withIN Eternity, yet still part of "creation." ... Imo at-least.
Otherwise the "new" One Above All (Claremont) just retcon that in DbtS)
-------------------------------------
That aside,
for several years now I've noted that the "Chaos Wave"
is not Wanda's top feat in HOM.
It's actually her grand finally: "No More Mutants" ...
Which reverted the Omniverse back to normality,
simultaneously remade 58163 back into 616,
coupled with also nullifying the mutant gene across countless UniverseS,
where 90+% of all mutants were affected.
That final spell, (no more mutants) was activated with a thought.
(and traversed "All Reality" (omniverse) as presented by Strange to Beast)
This wasn't an isolated incident. (it was expressed in different stories)
Here Balasco noticed ... "All Reality changed"
Ms Marvel (in her own title) ...
Hey this is cute, Mighty kid, Franklin Richards' entire freakin history was changed:
(when Wanda re-created 616 in her image 58163)
Just another victim of Wanda's power.
Originally posted by abhilegend
He wasn't resisting it. Joker didn't made science obsolete, he just made it illogical. We saw Lois gathering some renegade scientist.Joker was going to destroy everything when Superman stopped him. Mxy and Spectre had to repair whole of space-time to repair the damage caused by him. That confirms what Spectre said.
Superman and Steel were both making the same observations, meaning Steel was resisting the Joker as much as superman was. It was shown on panel, no denying it. Though i suppose we'll agree to disagree, as always, unfortunately.
Well, since Joker didn't have total control over reality......at any point in the arc, Spectre's statement never came to be. Even in the same scan you posted Spectre mentions that Superman broke Joker's hold on reality before it became absolute/irresistible. And Joker can't really destroy everything because that would include destroying batman (permanently), and if he destroys batman he becomes sane (which was actually shown, meaning there would be no emperor joker). So it was impossible from the beginning.
Also, i fail to see what Joker actually did (setting aside his potential) that's superior to what Wanda achieved.
