Does Mortis Anakin = Zone Anakin?
I guess this debate should warrant it's own topic. The original connotation of "zonakin" was due to his state of mind which is why RoTS Anakin needed clarification due to raping Dooku and losing to Obi-Wan.
With his feat of beating the Son and Daughter of the Force, several have put this in his "zonakin" state. So for the ease of future debates it'll be best to try and clarify what is what. Do we separate the zone from Mortis or do we include it as a package?
"In the Zone" by it's very meaning has to mean Skywalker in his peak state of mind and at his most powerful.
That has to be MortAkin. Whether he reached that same level of power against Count Dooku, I don't know. But if we take the novel literally, he made all of Dooku's Immesnse power a complete joke. So it sure sounded like it.
This is one of the most stupid things in Star Wars. Power progression should be gradual and not mindset/circumstances oriented.
Also, I don't think Zonakin moment is comparable to Mortakin moment since Anakin in the former moment was not able to subdue Dooku on moment's notice like he was able to subdue the duo of The Son and The Daughter.
To be honest, I believe that Anakin even in Zonakin moment can loose to other immensely powerful individuals or masters of the Force. Reason is that not everybody have shortcomings like that of Dooku.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
"In the Zone" by it's very meaning has to mean Skywalker in his peak state of mind and at his most powerful.That has to be MortAkin. Whether he reached that same level of power against Count Dooku, I don't know. But if we take the novel literally, he made all of Dooku's Immesnse power a complete joke. So it sure sounded like it.
The novel was inconsistent all over the place, just ask Kit Fisto's head on the desk.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This is one of the most stupid things in Star Wars. Power progression should be gradual and not mindset/circumstances oriented.
I'm going to say it's both. Your mindset definitely does affect how well you tap into the force, but skill in use of the force / experience in holding the mindset while fighting and so on gives gradual increases.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Mortis Anakin was tapping into the power of Mortis, not just his own power. Some point out that so were the Son and Daughter, but I think its safe to say that as the Chosen One Anakin was boosted a hell of a lot more than they were.Zonakin is just Anakin peaking.
In that case its safe to say Anakin will get access to much bigger boost than anyone else on any Force Nexus. Light or Dark considering he usually taps both.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Nah. Mortis is totally different since it basically is the Force.
Doesn't matter. If your argument is that Skywalker gets more of an amp on a force nexus than anyone else, then that would apply to any force nexus.
If someone else's argument is that he was "In the Zone" then that would apply anytime he's "In the Zone."
Or you could put them together and say that's what happens when Skywalker is "In the Zone" on a Force Nexus (which would make it a very very rare and unlikely occurrence).
There's some kind of consistent logic behind all the above. But if your saying it's only something that can happen to Anakin on Mortis, and no where else, then since there's absolutely no logic to that at all, it's up to you to prove it.
It isn't the same. A regular nexus is just a bit where the Force is concentrated. But Mortis is, forget ****in' Revan, the Heart of the Force. "A conduit through which the entire Force of the universe flows." I am saying that as the Chosen One, a being who was spawned by the Force itself, Anakin would be able to draw on that power to a greater extent than the Ones. Ahsoka and Obi-Wan didn't show the ability to draw on it. It isn't a regular Force nexus. Only Anakin and the Ones could call on that power. It doesn't need to be consistent because it isn't consistent.
"The Zone" is the result of Ani's attitude, conviction, resolve, and tactical fortitude being greatly sharpened into a razor point by his emotions - combined with the effects of Force rage that greatly enhance both his physical and Force stats.
Whereas pre-cyborg Vader has Force rage, but he's also a dull, blind, lunatic.
The zone was never realized in Vader because he just wasn't feeling it, he had a bad attitude - he could have regenerated his lungs (Shadows of the Empire) if he could have maintained sufficient rage during his time the meditation chamber using a form of Force healing. Even as a cyborg, if he'd had that attitude, and been lifted from despair he could have been a real physical threat to Sidious (Rise of Darth Vader) but still wouldn't try it because Sidious was the closest thing he had to a friend (Rise and Fall of Darth Vader).
Mortis is different, his powers are being amplified to an unknown extent by the mystical effects of this platform he's on, which is the prime vocal point of the Force itself.
This is like when Cyborg Vader was on Mimban, while holding the Kaiburr Crystal his powers were a thousandfold (RaFoDV) - WAAY more power than the zone - it also made him blood-lusted and able to use kinetite to achieve Force lightning without it passing through his cybernetics (Splinter of the Mind's Eye).
Zone wasn't even his peak - his natural plateau would be similar to FoTJ Luke, and in Empire of Dreams documentary on ANH, Lucas states it's twice that of Sidious' from ROTS-ROTJ - plus whatever being in the zone mindset would do for him plus whatever achieving living union with the Dark or Light side would do to him - which amped Luke dozens of times over in one of his encounters with Abeloth.
Originally posted by Nephthys
It isn't the same. A regular nexus is just a bit where the Force is concentrated. But Mortis is, forget ****in' Revan, the Heart of the Force. "A conduit through which the entire Force of the universe flows."
Yeah so it was a massive force nexus. If Anakin gets a greater advantage there, then he will gain a greater advantage on any force nexus (just to a lesser extent).
Originally posted by Nephthys
I am saying that as the Chosen One, a being who was spawned by the Force itself, Anakin would be able to draw on that power to a greater extent than the Ones.
Then it's only logical that he would be able to draw on the power of any nexus greater than any other Jedi/Sith.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Ahsoka and Obi-Wan didn't show the ability to draw on it. It isn't a regular Force nexus. Only Anakin and the Ones could call on that power. It doesn't need to be consistent because it isn't consistent.
What?
Kenobi felt how powerful the force was there as soon as he got there. And yet your claiming he couldn't use it more than normal?
Looks like your going by your own Mortis rules Neph.
Originally posted by OnenessMortis is different, his powers are being amplified to an unknown extent by the mystical effects of this platform he's on, which is the prime vocal point of the Force itself.
Everyone's amped on Morits. Don't get whats so difficult to understand.
Originally posted by DARTH POWERThey were in another realm, like the Beyond Shadows. When Krayt and Luke faced down Abeloth once and for all FoTJ explains that they weren't in their normal physical form.
Everyone's amped on Morits. Don't get whats so difficult to understand.
Abeloth never manifested herself in the normal realm without the use of hosts. Same could be said for Son, Daughter, Father.
We don't know how the communicated with the Killiks when designing the Maw. The nature of the Celestials and their relationship with the Force remains unknown.
I'd like if they are the result of Jedi from the future, transcending all life in their time into a higher dimension. Explaining their ability to presciently rearrange the galaxy to suit the life that they would create and evolve.
As I said in my thread, it seems to me that Anakin was tapping into the Dark Side on the Invisible Hand, not his full potential. I provided quotes from the book and the movie for why I think that.
In order to take down beings as powerful as the Son and Daughter, I would think he could only do that at his full potential. The Father even states that Anakin, being the Chosen One, was supposed to replace him and keep the Son and Daughter in line.
Anakin on Mortis > Anakin on Invisible Hand
I think the question should be what is the definition of Zonakin?
If it is Anakin at his peak, then that would have to be the Anakin on Mortis.
If it is Anakin owning Dooku, then it is a very powerful incarnation of Anakin, but not full potential Anakin.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Yeah so it was a massive force nexus. If Anakin gets a greater advantage there, then he will gain a greater advantage on any force nexus (just to a lesser extent).
Its not just a massive Force nexus. It's nature is different from a standard nexus. Heck, I wouldn't even call it a nexus, its so far beyond that.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Then it's only logical that he would be able to draw on the power of any nexus greater than any other Jedi/Sith.
No. And he isn't able to so whatever.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
What?Kenobi felt how powerful the force was there as soon as he got there. And yet your claiming he couldn't use it more than normal?
Looks like your going by your own Mortis rules Neph.
Kenobi felt how powerful it was, but neither he nor Ahsoka ever used it to increased their powers or showed that they were acting at an amplified level. I don't think even Anakin was other than the time he subdued the Son and Daughter.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Everyone's amped on Morits. Don't get whats so difficult to understand.
Prove it. I don't recall anyone displaying an amp other than Anakin.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Its not just a massive Force nexus. It's nature is different from a standard nexus. Heck, I wouldn't even call it a nexus, its so far beyond that.No. And he isn't able to so whatever.
Kenobi felt how powerful it was, but neither he nor Ahsoka ever used it to increased their powers or showed that they were acting at an amplified level. I don't think even Anakin was other than the time he subdued the Son and Daughter.
Prove it. I don't recall anyone displaying an amp other than Anakin.
Sorry Neph, but this argument is just silly.
The Force is stronger there than anywhere else in the Universe, yet I have to prove Jedi/Sith would be amped there?
Kenobi even tells Skywalker in the episode that this place is the centre of the Force so reach through it. In other words "use the massive amp available here."