I have no problem with Owen winning, but I am curious how he would do so?
The best feats I remember from Owen(correct me if I'm wrong) are:
-Easily fixing multiversal damage Beyonder had caused.
-Discharging a blast that could have supposedly destroyed billions of dimensions.
-Causing multiversal tremors in his battle with Beyonder.
-Shielding himself and the heroes from a blast from Beyonder that stretched across the entire multiverse.
Don't get me wrong, Owen's feats are very impressive. However, at his peak Lucifer was capable of effortlessly tanking/warping a big bang(a multiversal big bang, in fact) detonating in his face:
ie. it would require a multiverse-busting++ attack to have a shot at harming peak Lucifer.
Additionally, Dream(who is a multiversal force in his own right) stated that Lucifer was FAR more powerful than himself:
This statement was cemented when Dream outright admitted that he was scared of Lucifer:
ie. Lucifer>>>multiversal entities.
However, if superiority to the cosmic hierarchy(inc. LT) constitutes a battle feat, then Owen should win I guess... /shrug
Originally posted by CogitoWhoops. Yeah, you're right. 👆
Been done many times, shouldn't be done anymore.
Owen also gathered the power of the whole multiverse to put that shield on his house iirc, but point still stands: being more powerful than LT (although, imo, he weaker back then, he was still above conceptual/abstract beings) and the other cosmic beings combined, should give Owen the win.
Besides, Lucifer has at the very least low showings (being hurt by Gabriel's sword, not able to leave Yahweh's creation, unable to stop the basanos' attack on his cosmos, leaving Musubi to deal with the host of heaven ........... for some reason, among other things), Owen does not, at least not the version we're using (meaning the period between Secret Wars 1 #10 and his retcon in FF #319)
Originally posted by operator616It's not in Owen's character to duplicate those very situational low showings, though(he's not the brightest fella around, after all)-- so I don't think they matter that much. He'd almost certainly try blasting Lucifer to death, which I don't think would be a full-proof tactic for reasons I already mentioned.
Owen also gathered the power of the whole multiverse to put that shield on his house iirc, but point still stands: being more powerful than LT (although, imo, he weaker back then, he was still above conceptual/abstract beings) and the other cosmic beings combined, should give Owen the win.Besides, Lucifer has at the very least low showings (being hurt by Gabriel's sword, not able to leave Yahweh's creation, unable to stop the basanos' attack on his cosmos, leaving Musubi to deal with the host of heaven ........... for some reason, among other things), Owen does not, at least not the version we're using (meaning the period between Secret Wars 1 #10 and his retcon in FF #319)
Like I said: I have no problem with him winning. I just want to know how he does? Or do you think he wins mainly because he was stated to be superior to LT(and co.)?
Originally posted by Galan007
I just want to know how he does? Or do you think he wins mainly because he was stated to be superior to LT(and co.)?
Yeah, i think he wins mainly because of that, but it wasn't just a statement (which is also backed by his bio),it was shown pretty clearly imo.
Owen also managed to direct the Beyonder's entire energies to fill the Beyond-realm, which dwarfed the mainstream multiverse.
Originally posted by Galan007
How, though? With blasts?What blast did he unleash that was superior to what Lucifer has already tanked/warped?
MM would annihilate Lucifer's creation WITH Lucifer in it. He'd destroy Yahweh too.
Originally posted by operator616Cool beans. Like I said, not opposed to the notion, just was curious how, is all.
Yeah, i think he wins mainly because of that, but it wasn't just a statement (which is also backed by his bio),it was shown pretty clearly imo.Owen also managed to direct the Beyonder's entire energies to fill the Beyond-realm, which dwarfed the mainstream multiverse.
Originally posted by zopzopYou cannot answer a question with a question, dooder. 👇
What exactly did Lucifer tank that was so impressive? Michael's "Big Bang" blast? Who cares? Last time I checked that was Lucifer's thing. "God's Will" shaped "God's Power" and formed a new creation.MM would annihilate Lucifer's creation WITH Lucifer in it. He'd destroy Yahweh too.
Originally posted by Galan007
However, at his peak Lucifer was capable of effortlessly tanking/warping a big bang(a multiversal big bang, in fact) detonating in his face:
ie. it would require a multiverse-busting++ attack to have a shot at harming peak Lucifer.
Originally posted by Galan007
However, if superiority to the cosmic hierarchy(inc. LT) constitutes a battle feat, then Owen should win I guess... /shrug:
Originally posted by Galan007
Additionally, Dream(who is a multiversal force in his own right) stated that Lucifer was FAR more powerful than himself:This statement was cemented when Dream outright admitted that he was scared of Lucifer:
ie. Lucifer>>>multiversal entities.
Originally posted by EpicurusHence why I said: "tanking/warping"(ie. tanking or warping), as it could have been either one. 😉
It's debatable whether that feat is a purely durability feat or also an energy manipulation feat. Because a vastly weakened Lucifer(who was getting his sh1t pushed in by inferior blasts of the Demiurgos from a similarly vastly weakened Michael) survived a similar blast when Michael died and transferred his power to Elaine, who went kaboom because of her inexperience at dealing with such vast energies.
Originally posted by EpicurusDuh?
You do realize you made the exact same argument for Lucifer? In the exact same post no less:
I posted those comment 'feats' because the same type of 'feat' had already been mentioned on Beyonder's behalf. 👆
Originally posted by Galan007
Hence why I said: "tanking/warping"(ie. tanking or warping), as it could have been either one. 😉
Originally posted by Galan007
Duh?I posted those comment 'feats' because the same type of 'feat' had already been mentioned on Beyonder's behalf. 👆
Originally posted by operator616Didn't he get almost beaten to death by Dr Doom in that time period?
Owen also gathered the power of the whole multiverse to put that shield on his house iirc, but point still stands: being more powerful than LT (although, imo, he weaker back then, he was still above conceptual/abstract beings) and the other cosmic beings combined, should give Owen the win.Besides, Lucifer has at the very least low showings (being hurt by Gabriel's sword, not able to leave Yahweh's creation, unable to stop the basanos' attack on his cosmos, leaving Musubi to deal with the host of heaven ........... for some reason, among other things), Owen does not, at least not the version we're using (meaning the period between Secret Wars 1 #10 and his retcon in FF #319)
Originally posted by EpicurusI can agree with that.
Point noted. On a second note, the likelihood of the kabooming Demiurgos being maniped is far more likely than it being tanked outright though.
Originally posted by EpicurusYou *could* say that, but it'd just make you look like a buffoon for trying to put your own little 'twist' on my posts.
Nobody had mentioned those feats prior to you posting the dialogue with Dream etc. I want to say "I told ya so" for some reason, but I'll restrain myself from doing so for the moment.
This was the comment operator made before I even posted in this thread:
Originally posted by operator616
Reason being, he was more powerful than every cosmic being combined in MU.
By his own accord, operator was referring mostly to the statements made regarding Owen's powerset-- hence why I posted 'comment feats' on Lucifer's behalf in response(note that I never tried using those comment feats for anything other than to show people that Lucifer also has them.)
Seriously, why are you acting like you know what I meant... More than I know what I meant? It's silly, and borders on trolling.
Originally posted by Galan007
I can agree with that.You *could* say that, but it'd just make you look like a buffoon for trying to put your own little 'twist' on my posts.
Originally posted by Galan007
This was the comment operator made before I even posted in this thread:By his own accord, operator was referring mostly to the statements made regarding Owen's powerset-- hence why I [also] posted 'comment feats' on Lucifer's behalf, in response.
Seriously, why are you acting like you know what I meant... More than I know what I meant? It's silly, and borders on trolling.
Originally posted by Epicurusfacepalm
Basically saying, he didn't post any feats. You were the one who brought it up.Operator elaborated upon it in the other posts. You were the one who clung to this idea that MM wins based off superiority towards the Marvel Cosmic Hierarchy, as seen by your attempt to correlate that with Lucifer's superiority to an Endless.
TGK is NEVER wrong, people. The man knows your posts better than you do!!!!! 👆
