Technically, Nate has the ability to fight just as fast as(if not faster than) Zoom:
"The combat takes place out of time, in the 'Planck Length' between moments."
Tack that onto him wielding some of the most formidable mind-phuckery abilities in Marvel, and I'm curious how this isn't a one-sided stomp in his favor?
[edit]
Bran ninjas yet again!
Originally posted by Galan007
Technically, Nate has the ability to fight just as fast as(if not faster than) Zoom:
"The combat takes place out of time, in the 'Planck Length' between moments."Tack that onto him wielding some of the most formidable mind-phuckery abilities in Marvel, and I'm curious how this isn't a one-sided stomp in his favor?
[edit]
Bran ninjas yet again!
well, the mindphuckery could work, but not sure how he would ever get a chance to use it. i had this debate some time ago, and here is how the discussion ended:
Originally posted by leonidas
sigh.....using the term 'plank unit' like it's a measure of speed and that is absolutely wrong. there are actually multiple plank units--mass, time and length can all be regarded as 'plank units'. the 'time' plank unit, is merely a very very small measurement of time. the thing is, it is so small because the DISTANCE OVER WHICH IT IS MEASURED IS SO SMALL. if you are operating in 'plank time' you are GOING the speed of light. that's it. and it most CERTAINLY does NOT shame any flash speed feat. why? because flash operates in the MACROWORLD. imagine how quickly flash could cover something as small as a plank length (google a planck length). seriously.
photon starts at point (a) and is released. when it crosses point (b), the time it took from point (a) to point (b) is measured. nothing in the universe can go from point (a) to (b) faster than a photon.
in the comicbook universe, that simply doesn't hold true.
i truly, in all sincerity, don't see how you're questioning this issue.
plank HIMSELF stated: these natural units would always remain the same as long as the law of gravitation, [b]the speed of light in a vacuum,
and the principles of thermodynamics remain valid.the plank unit that defines time is BASED ON THE SPEED OF LIGHT. the plank length, as it was used by that author, was MISUSED. it makes no sense.
iow, to say someone exceeds light, means--BY PLANK'S OWN DEFINITION--that they are outside the boundaries defined by his units.
now, i agree with what you said a couple above--since nate was 'within' these time frames, he is seeing things in a quantum sense. but how does that translate into his "being really fast"? we can only go by how far in 'time' they were able to see. flash went to the END OF TIME. that implies his 'speed' (for lack of a better term, again)>nate's.
i would argue his [nate's] ability is mainly perceptual because ares was also able to enter this localized timeframe he was in. no way it could have been motion-based.
seriously, if you are "covering ground in 'plank units'" you are misusing the term. if you don't see that..... shrug [/B]
Personally, I'm not getting caught up on the Planck Length thing-- as Planck units were the 'cool thing' in Marvel at the time(not long before that the F4 beat MoD with Planck Heat, for example.) The other narration in that scene is what I'd focus on: "out of time", and "between moments". This narrative is very important because when Flash finally gained that level of 'speed', he was able to equal Zoom:
So yeah, Nate should be able to move as fast as Zoom, and has much more versatility. I see this as a hugely one-sided battle, tbh.
Originally posted by Galan007
Personally, I'm not getting caught up on the Planck Length thing-- as Planck units were the 'cool thing' in Marvel at the time(not long before that the F4 beat MoD with Planck Heat, for example.) The other narration in that scene is what I'd focus on: "out of time", and "between moments". This narrative is very important because when Flash finally gained that level of 'speed', he was able to equal Zoom:
So yeah, Nate should be able to move as fast as Zoom, and has much more versatility. I see this as a hugely one-sided battle, tbh.
see, this here is what i'm not getting--nate never "moved" at all--unless you want to suggest his telekinetically stepping into a sidereal timeframe as "moving". he would need to actively utilize that skill and remove himself though, nor is there any indication this skill could be used in a battle scenario in any offensive way. he basically entered that timeframe to hide. once engrossed in that timeframe, he might be able to perceive zoom, maybe, i guess, but i still have no idea how he could fight at those speeds. i think flash could access that same timeframe if he chose, but once IN that timeframe, he could STILL utilize his superspeed the same way he could OUTSIDE said pocket timeframe, if you get what i'm saying. zoom could likely do the same imo, though since his power is timebased, it is a trickier question imo. bottomline--i don't equate what he did as being speed-related at all as much as it is time manip. and even if he could interact with the outside and 'battle from within that bubble' he would still be maxed at the speed of light. it's a cool power, but i've never understood why so many have nerdgasms over it. shrug
Zoom exists outside of time and locked between the ticks of a second(as he put it.)
Nate and Ares' battle also took place "out of time" and "between moments":
...Which is why I think Nate can technically be on Zoom's level-- and with their speed/perceptions/etc. equalized, Zoom has no defense against Nate's TP.
yeah, but zoom operates on a level far exceeding nate's. nate's movement is discrete, so even assuming for a moment that he could somehow will himself to that place "between moments" where he could conceivably perceive zoom, zoom would destroy him BEFORE he ever reached that haven. and even if nate STARTED in that little time haven between moments, zoom operates in fractions of a moment even SMALLER than nate--that is to say there is no guarantee nate could perceive him at all, even FROM that place between moments. imo, he couldn't. he MAY well see zoom at reduced speeds though i guess, and be able to mount a tp assault. but that's ONLY assuming he was able to START the battle from his other-time bubble. he could never GET to it otherwise, least not imo, and not before zoom pummeled him to death. interesting discussion though.
We both know that Nate can think AND process information extremely fast, to say the least. So unless Zoom delivers Superman-level punches right out of the gate, Nate would almost certainly be able to weather the initial blitz long enough preform some sort of counterattack, imo.
Aside from the Planck time thingy, another easy option for Nate would be shielding--Zoom isn't breaching that even with Superman-level punches--in conjunction with mindphuckery. So yeah, even IF Nate didn't shift into his "haven"(I like that term for it), he should still be able to win.
