Originally posted by Q99
Lasso wrap, of course.WonderSpider is much better against Thorgan than most because WS does not rely purely on damage to take someone down.
I agree if the job was to actually take Thorgan down with damage, it wouldn't be enough, but that's not needed to win.
What is that going to do to win this for her?
Originally posted by Q99
Oh, it certainly can, it's decapitated gods (Phobos, back in Perez's run), cut Superman easy, etc..The adamantium parts are safe, and Thorgan can heal the wounds fast, but Thorgan isn't any more resistant to being cut than Thor is, so tendons, muscles, neck, etc. can be cut
Superman has a specific weakness to magic. You mean Deimos? What did he do to justify being compared to Thor?
The Odinson has some pretty impressive piercing resistance feats. Not to mention such an attack, or even a slit throat would not even slow him down. He was taking outright ridiculous punishment during the Gorr arc and here he'll have Wolverine's healing factor added to his own. He'd probably heal faster then she could damage him such a potent healing factor added to Thor's Asgardian nature.
Originally posted by Q99
Yea, but webbing first could help.There's also waiting for him to throw Mjolnir to throw the tiara.
By shooting it in the eyes, or similar. Spidey's quite creative, he's annoyed heralds with webs plenty of times.
That will slow him down for a second at most. Also, why can't he block webbing or Diana's tiara, whether with Mjolnir or his bare hands?
A lot of these scenario's treat Thor as a practice dummy. He will be fighting back with a myriad of his own abilities.
Originally posted by Q99
No, when someone is wrapped tightly and the lasso's end held, they are quite often shown to not be able to use such powers.This has been the case when Wonder Woman has lasso'd Circe and other mages. The Lasso has mental effects in addition to being physical.
Based on what exactly? The lasso has held people but in scenarios where any durable rope will suffice such as Hercules choking Circe or Wonder Woman using a hog tie technique on Circe. Which isn't stopping Thor. I can think of a number of instances where people inside of a lasso can still use their powers. They don't even have to do what she says as Max Lord so aptly showed us.
Also, mages that require their hands to cast spells do not mean anything to someone who can summon lightning from the sky or mentally control a hammer.
Once again, how does getting Thor in the lasso win this for her? He isn't some demon that she can expel or something. The absolute best case scenario is it landing her a stalemate.
Originally posted by Q99
I'm... not sure about that. She's not as fast in the air as Superman, but she's still pretty darn fast and can circle the globe quickly or such.And isn't Thor not very maneuverable in the air? So it could be a matter of speed vs maneuverability.
Why are you not sure about this? Wonder Woman is faster then sound but nowhere near light speed in terms of flight speed. She has no real business being compared to Thor in this category. Even during Morrison's Justice League, we got references for her flight speed being at Mach 3 or whatever. While there was no explicit upgrade, I got the feeling that over the last decade before Flashpoint, her flight speed was increasing.
Thor can be very maneuverable in flight.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Superman has a specific weakness to magic. You mean Deimos? What did he do to justify being compared to Thor?
Pretty much all DC gods are herald level tough.
Hm, another god, Cheetah, has been cut, and she's taken plenty of herald-level hits.
The Odinson has some pretty impressive piercing resistance feats. Not to mention such an attack, or even a slit throat would not even slow him down.
I doubt that. Sure, he'd recover, but that's very much 'take a few moments to gather himself and heal,' stuff.
That will slow him down for a second at most. Also, why can't he block webbing or Diana's tiara, whether with Mjolnir or his bare hands?
Blocking web is fine ^^ Then Mjolnir's all webbed up and she can throw the tiara where it can't be spun to block anymore.
Block the tiara with the bare hands means a nice big
A lot of these scenario's treat Thor as a practice dummy. He will be fighting back with a myriad of his own abilities.
No, they specifically address how she'd make an opening.
Also, one of the primary things about WonderSpider is he has insane defense. Most of Thor's attacks will wiff at the speed plus spider-sense, and the bracers will block most of the rest.
Based on what exactly? The lasso has held people but in scenarios where any durable rope will suffice such as Hercules choking Circe or Wonder Woman using a hog tie technique on Circe.
Which isn't stopping Thor.
I'm curious how exactly you think being tied up in a lasso he can't break is not a win. What power exactly is he supposed to use then?
Call lightning that WS can casually block blindly?
And people who're sufficiently tied up generally *are* stopped from using their powers. You mentioned Max, but Max wasn't able to just order Superman to attack more with his mental powers. Circe has sometimes been stopped from spellcasting with a single loop, as has Manitou Raven. I will admit it's not 100% consistent but characters usually are fairly pacified by the lasso.
Once again, how does getting Thor in the lasso win this for her? He isn't some demon that she can expel or something. The absolute best case scenario is it landing her a stalemate.
Character 1 is tied up and unable to move or escape. Character 2 is free and can go eat lunch.
Odd definition of 'stalemate.' I mean, sure, if you want to call that a 'stalemate,' but I call that a win.
Why are you not sure about this? Wonder Woman is faster then sound but nowhere near light speed in terms of flight speed.
Um, yes, she totally is. She's kept up with speed-force members, flies around the Earth in moments 'faster than thought,' and similar.
Remember when she took Primaid the White Martian up into orbit in a moment when Flash wasn't looking in the first Morrison JLA story? Or did the same to Genocide?
Or when she was knocked to Canada by Power Girl, and then she rushed back and was back in Washington DC?
She keeps up with the JLA when flying in space, and yadda yadda.
Checkmate rates her flight at A-2. That's only one step below Superman's A-1, and both have a general speed rating of A-2, so I really don't think she's *that* much slower.
Here, she caught a fake-Flash (who still has Flash's speed) by flying ahead of him and setting up her lasso.
She has no real business being compared to Thor in this category. Even during Morrison's Justice League, we got references for her flight speed being at Mach 3 or whatever.
I don't recall that, and she's definitely moved much faster than mach 3 from the start of the Morrison League, the Primaid example above.
Remember the White Martian story during No Man's Land? When they had to check to make sure all the Martians were still mind-zowied? So they had the super-fast members criss-cross the globe monitoring them and move too fast for the martians to psychically detect?
Regardless, she is not beating this Thor with any other way than that lasso. She has ways to hurt him, yes. And quite often as well. But not very badly and not for long. But at the end of the day this is Thors fight to lose. Though I think spidey would lose, logans powers are more useful in one on one battle. I would liken to see a Thor with spidey/sense/healing factor vs. Hulk with Havok, nightcrawler powers lol
Originally posted by Q99
Pretty much all DC gods are herald level tough.Hm, another god, Cheetah, has been cut, and she's taken plenty of herald-level hits.
Not true at all and again, this isn't any herald, this is Thor. You can't compare some random deities to Thor in durability.
Originally posted by Q99
I doubt that. Sure, he'd recover, but that's very much 'take a few moments to gather himself and heal,' stuff.
Wolverine in his high end showings gets reduced to shreds and doesn't slow down. Thor on his own has ridiculous damage soak. Add Wolverine's healing factor to Thor's immortality and yes, a slit throat would not even slow this amalgam down.
Originally posted by Q99
Blocking web is fine ^^ Then Mjolnir's all webbed up and she can throw the tiara where it can't be spun to block anymore.Block the tiara with the bare hands means a nice big
What are you talking about? Getting some webbing on Mjolnir will not do anything to limit Thor's ability to block. It will not hinder his ability to raise Mjolnir. If it was secondary Adamantium, yes, it would be difficult unless Thor was cutting loose, but not webbing.
A nice big what?
Originally posted by Q99
No, they specifically address how she'd make an opening.
And they specifically ignore all the ways Thor can counter or what he'd do in defense.
Originally posted by Q99
Also, one of the primary things about WonderSpider is he has insane defense. Most of Thor's attacks will wiff at the speed plus spider-sense, and the bracers will block most of the rest.
It's great then that Thor has the ability to fly at ridiculous speeds, has omnidirectional attacks and so on.
Originally posted by Q99
I'm curious how exactly you think being tied up in a lasso he can't break is not a win. What power exactly is he supposed to use then?Call lightning that WS can casually block blindly?
Because getting the lasso over Thor's arms or torso isn't going to do anything to win this for her. Well, not only does it open her up to getting rag-dolled around by a stronger opponent, he can still use Mjolnir attacks, lightning (Which WILL be a hindrance as if she's blocking bolts from the sky or dodging, she isn't on solid footing or holding on to her rope), hammer throws and so on.
The only way the lasso would let Diana win is if she ties him up from like head to toe mummy style or in a way that completely incapacitates him (Although he can still use an omnidirectional attack or something). Which she just is incapable of accomplishing against an opponent of this caliber.
Originally posted by Q99
And people who're sufficiently tied up generally *are* stopped from using their powers. You mentioned Max, but Max wasn't able to just order Superman to attack more with his mental powers. Circe has sometimes been stopped from spellcasting with a single loop, as has Manitou Raven. I will admit it's not 100% consistent but characters usually are fairly pacified by the lasso.
Like who? How about you post me a few examples of characters being unable to use their powers specifically because they are tied up? There have been very many occasions where beings who had the lasso on them who not only have fought back, but have preceded to give Wonder Woman viscous battles.
Because the lasso was blocking his telepathy, but Thor isn't going to mind blast her.
When did this Manitou Raven encounter happen?
Originally posted by Q99
Character 1 is tied up and unable to move or escape. Character 2 is free and can go eat lunch.Odd definition of 'stalemate.' I mean, sure, if you want to call that a 'stalemate,' but I call that a win.
You seem to think Diana will somehow be able to wrap up Thor like a mummy to the point he can't do anything. Like I said, Thor isn't a training dummy who will just be standing there.
Originally posted by Q99
Um, yes, she totally is. She's kept up with speed-force members, flies around the Earth in moments 'faster than thought,' and similar.Remember when she took Primaid the White Martian up into orbit in a moment when Flash wasn't looking in the first Morrison JLA story? Or did the same to Genocide?
Or when she was knocked to Canada by Power Girl, and then she rushed back and was back in Washington DC?
She keeps up with the JLA when flying in space, and yadda yadda.
Checkmate rates her flight at A-2. That's only one step below Superman's A-1, and both have a general speed rating of A-2, so I really don't think she's *that* much slower.
Like I said, she is faster then sound but nowhere near light as far as I've seen. Nothing you said changes that. She's fast enough to fly across countries or into orbit, I never denied that. Wonder Woman has specifically needed Justice League transportation to fly to the moon and I've never seen her fly across any notable distance that is longer then planetary on her own.
During Doomsday Wars, it was very conspicuous that she was one of the heroes left stranded on Earth, because the JLA transporters were out of order, while guys like Superman, Martian Manhunter, Orion and Kyle all flew to the Moon under their own powers. I've also seen Diana using her invisible plane on a few occasions to cross large distances. There was also quite a strong implication that Grant Morrison thought Diana's top flight speed was mach three, which means even intercontinental distances would be a challenge for her, never-mind interplanetary ones.
There are also comics like Superman #211 where she uses the Invisible Plane to fly to the arctic. Although I don't remember because it was specifically because she NEEDED it.
Originally posted by Q99
Here, she caught a fake-Flash (who still has Flash's speed) by flying ahead of him and setting up her lasso.I don't recall that, and she's definitely moved much faster than mach 3 from the start of the Morrison League, the Primaid example above.
Remember the White Martian story during No Man's Land? When they had to check to make sure all the Martians were still mind-zowied? So they had the super-fast members criss-cross the globe monitoring them and move too fast for the martians to psychically detect?
Nice? I'm sure she can get the drop on Thor if she knows he's coming and has time to prepare. Possibly.
Flying Primaid into orbit doesn't prove anything since it was never said how fast she was going.
It's not just Wonder Woman. Even Captain Marvel after his power up considered a trip to Venus something that would take quite a long time under his own power:
http://imageshack.us/a/img33/4788/captainmarvelflightspee.jpg
I mentioned him because IIRC he also has the speed of Hermes.
I think there might have been one time when she flew from the moon to the Earth but she still doesn't have any business being compared to someone who can cross the Solar System, light years, and even Galactic distances in moments.
Originally posted by maxivitopowe
Hey Bada there are a couple of things in a couple of my threads that I would like you to changeFirst is, on my Thor/Wolverine vs Wonder Woman/ Spiderman (Way Of The Spider) : Amalgam Battle thread can you change the title from " Thor/Wolverine vs Wonder Woman/
Spiderman (Way Of The Spider) : Amalgam
Battle"
to
Thor/Wolverine vs Wonder Woman/
Spiderman (Way Of The Spider) : Amalgam
Battle 1 and if you can add a poll.Also in that thread can you change the opening post from " Combined Stats and Powers" to
Combined Stats, Experience and Powers. ThanksIn my other thread H'El/Azazel (marvel) vs Superman/ Nightcrawler : Amalgam Battle can you change H'El to Bizzaro and add a 2 at the end of the title like how I asked you to for the first one. Also can you change the opening post aswell to
Combined Stats, Experience and Powers
And add a poll if you can to this one as wellCan you bump them when your done as well please thanks man much appreciated
