Why is The Eternal Champion from TES: Arena presumed so weak?

I mean, he did defeat Jagar Tharn, who's life force was infused with arguably the MOST POWERFUL weapon in the history of the Elder Scrolls, and that was (Depending on what you picked) with what would be considered very Low-Level gear due to TES: Skyrim, if I remember correctly, you usually had the typical imperial outfit at the end of Arena, the game may be bad, but Talin (The Eternal Champion) is honestly my favorite protagonist, and there's no reason to think his strength hasn't grown since Arena. Most of you may think I'm ranting due to my recent post where everyone said Dovahkiin could defeat him, but I assure you, that's not the case, I'm just saying he is more powerful then everyone thinks, imagine The Eternal Champion in full Daedric Armor then, with an added bonus of a Daedric Greatsword (or just plain Daedric Sword) Now, let's put him against Jagar Tharn again and see how horribly Jagar Tharn gets beaten in mere seconds. I say he is about the third strongest protagonist in the series, right below Dovahkiin and CoC. Your opinion's may differ, but this is mine.

I wouldn't use the term "low level gear" in any kind of stance, because that's reflecting game-play mechanics. The Eternal Champion could be a buck-naked Dunmer; we simply don't know. If gear makes the champ, my Hero of Kvatch/Sheogorath Stand-In is as powerful as the Eternal Champion because he can outfight anything in Cyrodiil with his Daedric Armor of +10 Whatever. Or if you're basing feats on it, the Nerevarine can potentially kill three god-like figures, only two of which were needed to defeat Mehrunes Dagon.

Nerevarine >>>>> Martin Septim and Akatosh.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I wouldn't use the term "low level gear" in any kind of stance, because that's reflecting game-play mechanics. The Eternal Champion could be a buck-naked Dunmer; we simply don't know. If gear makes the champ, my Hero of Kvatch/Sheogorath Stand-In is as powerful as the Eternal Champion because he can outfight anything in Cyrodiil with his Daedric Armor of +10 Whatever. Or if you're basing feats on it, the Nerevarine can potentially kill three god-like figures, only two of which were needed to defeat Mehrunes Dagon.

Nerevarine >>>>> Martin Septim and Akatosh.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
By that logic, wouldn't that put the Neravarine above Talos,

Talos is a bit undefined really. Since he's not a protagonist we don't know what parts of his life are valid as they're all second-hand sources handed down through time. The only thing we can say really is that Talos is divine (his appearance in Morrowind proves as much).

Spoiler:
Thalmor can suck it.

and since everyone puts the CoC above the Nevavarine,

Who is everyone? "Everyone else says" is not any kind of assertion. It's just parroting something you heard that we can't substantiate. The Champion of Cyrodiil IS the Hero of Kvatch, the Savior of Bruma, and Sheogorath.

The only way in which he could be more powerful than the Nerevarine is within his daedric realm, really. Both of them have "game mechanic access to different tiers of spells, weapons, armor, etc.". Either could be an amazing battlemage, a powerful thief archetype, or a tank-like soldier. Using the only established baseline we have, what they did, is the best measurement.

that would make the CoC the most powerful person in the history of TES lore.

Sincerely doubt it. Even a Greybeard would rip CoC in half.

What my point is... We see their story, but we don't know what happened after Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, etc. We have no idea what sort of true skill The Eternal Champion had due to his story, and we have no idea if Jagar Tharn could kill Alduin, or, with the Staff of Chaos, even Talos or any other god. We don't know what they can do past their story, though this argument is inadequete seeing as this could defend most Video Game protagonists period.

That's the crux of the debate though. We don't know a lot of details. What we do know is inferred, unless it is explicitly backed up by subsequent lore in later games.

Regarding the Nerevarine, we know conclusively that he killed Dagoth Ur and Almalexia, both demigods. Dagoth Ur solo chased off Sotha Sil, Vivec, and Almalexia when they tried to renew their powers at the Heart of Lorkhan. Previously, Almalexia and Sotha Sil defeated Mehrunes Dagon.

We consider that the Nerevarine may have possibly killed Vivec, but we don't know for sure. Vivec disappeared after the events of Morrowind and is presumed dead or in the hands of daedra after the Oblivion Crisis. I personally think it's odd that both figures disappeared. Sequel bait, probably.

So the question is, did The Eternal Champion curbstomp using his own physical ability?

Nope. The Staff of Chaos did all of the work, he merely assembled it. At least the Nerevarine killed two, possibly three demigods in single combat.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I wouldn't use the term "low level gear" in any kind of stance, because that's reflecting game-play mechanics. The Eternal Champion could be a buck-naked Dunmer; we simply don't know. If gear makes the champ, my Hero of Kvatch/Sheogorath Stand-In is as powerful as the Eternal Champion because he can outfight anything in Cyrodiil with his Daedric Armor of +10 Whatever. Or if you're basing feats on it, the Nerevarine can potentially kill three god-like figures, only two of which were needed to defeat Mehrunes Dagon.

Nerevarine >>>>> Martin Septim and Akatosh.

You are aware that they only defeated a weaker avatar of Mehrunes Dagon, right?

Originally posted by NemeBro
You are aware that they only defeated a weaker avatar of Mehrunes Dagon, right?

I'm not sure where you got this. Here's what I'm referring to:

[list]12 Sun's Dusk, 2920
Mournhold, Morrowind
A gout of ever-erupting flame was all that remained of the central courtyard of Castle Mournhold, blasting skyward into the boiling clouds. A thick, tarry smoke rolled through the streets, igniting everything that was wood or paper on fire. Winged bat-like creatures harried the citizens from their hiding places out into the open, where they were met by the real army. The only thing that kept all of Mournhold from burning to the ground was the wet, sputtering blood of its people.
Mehrunes Dagon smiled as he surveyed the castle crumbling.
“To think I nearly didn't come,” he said aloud, his voice booming over the chaos. “Imagine missing all this fun.”
His attention was arrested by a needle-thin shaft of light piercing through his black and red shadowed sky. He followed it to its source, two figures, a man and a woman standing on the hill above town. The man in the white robe he recognized immediately as Sotha Sil, the sorcerer who had talked all the Princes of Oblivion into that meaningless truce.
“If you've come for the Duke of Mournhold, he isn't here,” laughed Mehrunes Dagon. “But you might find pieces of him the next time it rains.”
“Daedra, we cannot kill you,” said Almalexia, her face hard and resolute. “But that you will soon regret.”
With that, two living gods and a prince of Oblivion engaged in battle on the ruins of Mournhold.

--2920, The Last Year of the First Era
by Carlovac Townway[/list]

This is about the only book which references the battle, and it's clearly after-the-fact historical fiction. However, that Mehrunes Dagon was present and destroyed Mournhold utterly and the duo took him out is still evident enough. Where did you conclude he was weakened?

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I'm not sure where you got this. Here's what I'm referring to:

[list]12 Sun's Dusk, 2920
Mournhold, Morrowind
A gout of ever-erupting flame was all that remained of the central courtyard of Castle Mournhold, blasting skyward into the boiling clouds. A thick, tarry smoke rolled through the streets, igniting everything that was wood or paper on fire. Winged bat-like creatures harried the citizens from their hiding places out into the open, where they were met by the real army. The only thing that kept all of Mournhold from burning to the ground was the wet, sputtering blood of its people.
Mehrunes Dagon smiled as he surveyed the castle crumbling.
“To think I nearly didn't come,” he said aloud, his voice booming over the chaos. “Imagine missing all this fun.”
His attention was arrested by a needle-thin shaft of light piercing through his black and red shadowed sky. He followed it to its source, two figures, a man and a woman standing on the hill above town. The man in the white robe he recognized immediately as Sotha Sil, the sorcerer who had talked all the Princes of Oblivion into that meaningless truce.
“If you've come for the Duke of Mournhold, he isn't here,” laughed Mehrunes Dagon. “But you might find pieces of him the next time it rains.”
“Daedra, we cannot kill you,” said Almalexia, her face hard and resolute. “But that you will soon regret.”
With that, two living gods and a prince of Oblivion engaged in battle on the ruins of Mournhold.

--2920, The Last Year of the First Era
by Carlovac Townway[/list]

This is about the only book which references the battle, and it's clearly after-the-fact historical fiction. However, that Mehrunes Dagon was present and destroyed Mournhold utterly and the duo took him out is still evident enough. Where did you conclude he was weakened?

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I'm not sure where you got this. Here's what I'm referring to:

[list]12 Sun's Dusk, 2920
Mournhold, Morrowind
A gout of ever-erupting flame was all that remained of the central courtyard of Castle Mournhold, blasting skyward into the boiling clouds. A thick, tarry smoke rolled through the streets, igniting everything that was wood or paper on fire. Winged bat-like creatures harried the citizens from their hiding places out into the open, where they were met by the real army. The only thing that kept all of Mournhold from burning to the ground was the wet, sputtering blood of its people.
Mehrunes Dagon smiled as he surveyed the castle crumbling.
“To think I nearly didn't come,” he said aloud, his voice booming over the chaos. “Imagine missing all this fun.”
His attention was arrested by a needle-thin shaft of light piercing through his black and red shadowed sky. He followed it to its source, two figures, a man and a woman standing on the hill above town. The man in the white robe he recognized immediately as Sotha Sil, the sorcerer who had talked all the Princes of Oblivion into that meaningless truce.
“If you've come for the Duke of Mournhold, he isn't here,” laughed Mehrunes Dagon. “But you might find pieces of him the next time it rains.”
“Daedra, we cannot kill you,” said Almalexia, her face hard and resolute. “But that you will soon regret.”
With that, two living gods and a prince of Oblivion engaged in battle on the ruins of Mournhold.

--2920, The Last Year of the First Era
by Carlovac Townway[/list]

This is about the only book which references the battle, and it's clearly after-the-fact historical fiction. However, that Mehrunes Dagon was present and destroyed Mournhold utterly and the duo took him out is still evident enough. Where did you conclude he was weakened?

The entire plot of Oblivion.

Dagon can't manifest fully on Nirn while the Dragonfires are lit. Which they were.

Originally posted by NemeBro
The entire plot of Oblivion.

Dagon can't manifest fully on Nirn while the Dragonfires are lit. Which they were.

First off, I hope you realize that this:

Nerevarine >>>>> Martin Septim and Akatosh.

Is a complete and utter joke and my entire point of using it was to showcase how heroes are hard to really stack up against each other.

Second, where specifically does it say this? The Dragonfires prevent daedric invasion, but I don't recall anything about diminishing powers (although it makes sense they can only manifest so much).