I was first introduced to KMC because of their respect threads. I came upon an excellent one today for a character who is arguably THE most Luciferian superhero produced by a mainstream comic company to date.
Nothing for him today, but I'll DEFINITELY come back to THAT character if time and opportunity permit ...
A couple posters indirectly reminded me of this thread the past month.
One offered me a great resource for research, one I've not had in any comparable manner since around 2008.
Would that I had something similar for finding the more academic texts I was searching for. I've had to search stores that specialize in old and used books to get even close to what I want.
My little mini-project has stalled for want of Our Gods Wear Spandex and Dwardu Cardona's "God Star" tomes, respectively.
Even without those, however, it's easy to make the case that religion affects our lives in ways we often are not even aware of. It's the inspiration for many works, designs, customs, habits, rituals, and quirks of language. For instance, today is Saturday, which most people are probably not consciously thinking, but know somewhere in the back of their memory, is named for the Roman God Saturn, known to Greeks as Kronos. It's still considered a day of rest for many even today because it was once one of the most important days of worship.
The average person probably doesn't spend much time thinking of such things. Writers are a little different. Many of them DO know the forgotten history of many of the things given as a list above, and many consult mythological and religious writings for inspiration.
But ... what FORM does that take today? Presenting this in recognizable format for the average reader seems to be very difficult for some reason. I've actually had a poster or 2 private message me, so I KNOW some people are getting it; I'm hoping I just need to find something that illustrates clearly enough to reach the rest. I think I did a fairly good job on revealing the significance of Lightning.
If the link from a page or so ago is still holding, I've even got Grant Mirrison commenting on that, besides the examples of Black Adam, Shazam, He-man, Flash, Mary Marvel, and JLA Axis.
Now I want to re-tackle the S-Shield and Serpent symbolism.
I came across something that should allow even Iopy to see what I'm talking about. At worst, she and other Supergirl/Silver Age fans will have a rarely seen but enjoyable partial story to divert them, even as they find Kara herself making the connection I've been laboring to show:
Source: Action Comics #372
It should be far easier to see the serpent symbolism now following the above and present showings. Note that the shield design varies and that the degree to which the serpent is "stylized" can vary considerably. Sometimes it resembles the serpent of older times, which people today otherwise know as a Wyvern or Dragon. You'll see that in the s-shield design of the Man of Steel costume worn by Henry Cavill, and the relatively recent comic book appearances of the Superman-gone-insanely-evil figure of "Brutaal".
More often, however, the serpent appears as a snake or Python.
Note that the head of the snake is sometimes "North", as here:
... but sometimes "South", as here:
Somebody asked earlier if the S of the famous shield either always represents a snake or something along those lines? Well, it definitely doesn't always represent a snake; after all, the genesis of this thread came largely from me seeing the s-shield represented as a lightning bolt on a preview to a Supergirl comic. (Seeing that after a slew of strangely religious/occult story lines by DC and Marvel made the question of symbolism register with me significantly for perhaps the first time.)
Certainly the "S" of the s-shield represents a snake or serpent quite often, though, and it seems as time goes on the representation, especially in screen media, becomes ever more direct. Note here, for instance, Jeremy Jordan, who plays Winn Shott, on the current TV series of Supergirl. Anyone saying the S of the shield in HIS cap doesn't represent a snake needs to tell me why it's color banded in such a way as to nearly EXACTLY mimic the way a snake coiling around an object appears to a viewer. Red back and lighter colored underbelly? In the following picture at least, I'm gonna go with the cap designer deliberately channeling "Supergirl/Superman" and "snake" ...
I was looking through some clips of Frank Miller's comic book adapted film, Sin City. The film is praised for its use of color, including remarkable usage of black and white. I debated for the briefest of moments using that film to make my case but that movie is depressing even by Miller standards. Besides, most things that warrant the term "Luciferian" as it's been defined in this thread aren't THAT obvious and direct; I've been thinking of another that would make a better illustration. This movie stars Donnie Yen, and is arguably as brilliant in its use of black and white as Sin City. Both films were released in 2005; I'm not sure if the execution of the one movie inspired the other, though both Frank Miller and Donnie Yen, director of this other film, are noted for borrowing and expanding on others' ideas.
Here is the most famous scene from the film; its formal name is Sha Po Lang, if memory serves. Beware - it IS moderately violent:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CWlGo1JmZIU
I'll explain how exactly that scene illustrates "Luciferian" in my next post.
By the way, if the above link ever fails, just Google "Kill Zone knife fight" without quotation marks.
Brief synopsis: The fight above features a showdown between an ex-cop trying to save his friend from a Godfather style mob boss and that mob boss's chief assassin. Note this is Hong Kong; guns are hard to come by compared to countries like America, and the difficulty of obtaining them is, in fact, part of the plot. If you watched the clip above, you probably chose correctly who would win, but not much else. Recall that to be Luciferian a work ideally makes Biblical allusions AND casts God in the role of villain but Lucifer in the role of hero, or at least protagonist. Easy enough to see here: You literally have "Godfather" sending his right hand man, his "son" (the guy dressed all in white), down to Earth from his high place. I have a 10 scan per post limit; you'll have to re-watch the clip above if you've forgotten this part.
The next scene, however, features Satan falling as lightning from heaven.
This is underscored by the ex-cop, dressed in black (traditional color of villainy), passing a sign with a blue lightning bolt as he strolls into the alleyway:
Please note carefully the yellow glow of that sign and that it has that lightning bolt.
We find the "son" of "Godfather" dressed all in white brandishing his knife.
White, of course, is the color of purity, cleanliness, good, etcetera, etcetera in traditional films. Traditional Western films, at any rate. But "son" here is anything but pure. He has, in fact, by this point, murdered several of ex-cop's friends. And several witnesses and innocent victims.
These white outfits of his have been soiled with a lot of blood over the course of the film. Strangely appropriate how his hair resembles a Lion's mane; readers of the Bible may recognize allusions to the wandering lion or even the Lion of Judah here.
Ex-cop gets slightly the better of the exchange for a moment.
Remarkably, at this point, the movie not only has ex-cop directly under the lightning bolt of the sign, they even have the background music intoning "Demon ... demon ..." at this point. Not making this up. Review that part of the clip.
Actually, that song is even more singular than most realize. It sounds almost like a New Age MesoAmerican chant. Like something you'd hear on a National Geographic re-enactment special about such people. Accidental? Doubtful.
The name of the song is "Store the Sun".
That might not seem significant but ask yourself:
"How exactly did people in times past believe they could stock/store/restore/replenish the sun?"
The Aztecs and Incas give the answer.
And so does the ex-cop.
Note that the finisher he uses is nearly exactly the cut National Geo describes for ritual sacrifice.
The Lamb/Lion of God?
Slain for the sins of the world?
(Or because of them?)
Ex-cop will have a duel with "Godfather" next. Satan falling like lightning from heaven will be reinforced there in an equally dramatic scene.
But before that, as he walks away from his victim, we see him fade under the glow of that lightning bolt sign again on the right
... and a Baphomet pentagram (upside-down 5-pointed star) on the left ...
I've covered, with a great deal of text, much of the larger meaning behind lightning symbolism, general background information needed to understand some of the points being illustrated in this thread, and some counters to objections made earlier, on the following page:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=589178&pagenumber=5
The blue links at the bottom of that page contain a wealth of visual submissions; a double tap on any given link should enable them to be seen as intended.
I want to take the time to iterate/reiterate that symbolism and the language of symbolism is often, perhaps usually not, as precise as spoken language. Certainly not as precise as American English, at any rate.
However, it doesn't necessarily need to be, PROVIDED, that is, that viewers have, and remember at least ONE prior exposure.
For instance, strange though the following 2 images would be to a first time viewer:
... they probably pose no recognition problems at all to American sitcom viewers, who immediately associated an image similar to the following when they saw that:
Symbolism often need only represent in part to bring to mind the whole.
I must say in the same breath, however, that symbols sometimes need to be paired with other objects or symbols to trigger optimum recognition, but that sometimes doing so reveals not just the message the main presenter is intending, but also reveals the meaning OF the original symbol.
For instance, note the following, an advert for CBS's series "Angel from Hell":
All you need is the title, a singed feather, and CBS's own corporate logo to have information nearly equal to what a full trailer would provide on what the premise of the show is.
But people who have not thought about it before will now go
"Hey! That IS the corporate logo of CBS! The logo is the All-Seeing Eye".
(I guarantee some people reading this just realized that ...)
I was just looking over the following from last year the other day, an advert featuring Melissa Benoist with the star of "The Flash" TV series, announcing an unprecedented network-spanning crossover for Benoist's "Supergirl" TV show:
What a joy that show often was that first season ...
Sadly, the show was cancelled by CBS and picked up by CW.
Without the need to appeal anymore to a mainstream audience, the show has since become HEAVILY politicized , and, perhaps not coincidentally, lacking in the more mainstream values it often espoused.
Last year, seeing Grant/Flash's comment about the 2 outfits going well together, I had to admit that was correct because the actor and actress enjoyed palpable camaraderie. They liked each other's company and were excited to be performing together and it showed. This year ...
Well, I think about it in other contexts, to say the least.
But there's definite truth to the statement either way. The fact is serpent, sun, and lightning symbolism DO "go" with each other, at least in the context of this thread, because all of them are Luciferian symbols, in fact direct representations of Lucifer himself and/or his power.
Probably the greatest blending illustration occurred on that Supergirl show during the episode titled "Livewire". This is where a woman that Supergirl was trying to save got caught in a storm at EXACTLY the wrong moment; she's struck straight through by a lightning bolt and put in a coma. Of course, being a comic book affair, this is not the end of her; Leslie absorbs a portion of sun-powered Supergirl's own physical might AND electric power to boot.
This one is hard to top; struck by lightning, a symbol of Satan and/or his power all by itself, through a figure who gets her power from the Sun, another representation of Lucifer, and who, as, essentially, a sun-goddess is herself another Luciferian symbol, with said power channeled through her serpent-symbolic shield (the serpent of course representing Lucifer, as anyone whose ever read "Adam and Eve" knows), AND the ordeal turns Leslie evil.
Talk about full house!
I'm determined to impose as much order on the material I've posted in this thread as I can. Fortunately, I've discovered it seems to be possible to direct links that not only go to a particular thread, or even pages of a thread, but to a particular post on a page in a particular thread.
Unfortunately, that requires knowing the I.D. Numbers of a post ...
I can get those for recent material. Bit more challenging for older material.
This thread has quite possibly taught me more about the mechanics of this board than any before it; hopefully I'll learn a bit more of what I want before the day is through.
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I had some pics I'd been debating on using. Resonated with me for several reasons. All for this current post are from the promos for the then upcoming series starring Melissa Benoist and/or the first season of Supergirl. Seemed a much different show then, WAS, in fact, a much different show then, elements mentioned in previous posts notwithstanding.
Hmm. Should I tackle the problem of hero worship and note it's similarity, indeed, equality, to the real thing ...?
Nah.
For now, for this post at least, confident from the responses I've gotten that people know to use SOME caution with these, I'll just post for people to enjoy ...
Was going to post this in a different thread. Then I reconsidered how many themes previously mentioned in this thread are touched on here. It's recent, but it's action is a mirror of what is presented on the very cover of the issue.
The major theme is that of Double Dragon, with one Luciferian archetype figure overcoming another. There is also transhumanism, represented by Indigo, the purple-haired figure in 2 of these panels. And, of course, there is the all-seeing eye, given one of the most literal interpretations imaginable:
(From Wikipedia)
The Emerald Empress has no innate superpowers of her own. But as the wielder of the Emerald Eye of Ekron, she has direct access to its immense mystical power, which she employs in a variety of ways. The Eye allows her to fly and survive unharmed in the cold vacuum of space. At her command, the eye can emit energy blasts strong enough to take down even Superboy, cast illusions, and generate protective force fields around her. The Empress can also wield the Eye's power to give her superhuman strength on more than one occasion and could even use it to make herself grow to giant size.
According to the year-spanning maxiseries "52" (2006), the Eye was once a real eye for the cosmic entity called "Ekron". But, somehow Emerald Empress got the Eye and got it to work for her...
... when the Eye was reintroduced in the Legion Annual of 2011 ... Ekron was referred to as a world where the Eye had once been worshipped as a god.
The beginning of Supergirl Season 3 was this week.
I looked up material relating to the cast. Came across an amazing interview with Chyler Leigh relating to Floriana Lima and their characters.
Could not help but wonder:
Hollywood teaches its actors to feel a certain way.
Is the same true of its audiences?
The following would seem to suggest so:
----------------------------------------------------------------
When you started shooting the episodes with the very first seed of Alex and Maggie’s burgeoning relationship, were you nervous?
I was.
I’ll tell you when it was, it was when the light bulb started to go off in the dialogue for Alex, and all of a sudden, I was like, “These words are coming out my mouth!” and I felt uncomfortable, because I hadn’t walked in Alex’s shoes from that side of her. I felt like I was coming out as Alex, so I’m just saying all these things, and I’m talking to my husband going, “This is so strange, but it’s amazing and I love it.”
It was challenging ... this was episode 5, the episode where I sit down with her in the bar and say, “Maybe there’s truth to what you said.” I kind of felt like I was nauseous doing it ... I think I have this empathy reserve in my body that I can just defer to that. “Okay, I feel things really intensely, just use it.” So all the stuff in the bar, I really felt it. That’s something that people have been relating to the most because it’s honest ... That’s when it started for me, episode 5, when it was going, “Oh my gosh, these words are coming out of my mouth!”
http://ew.com/tv/2017/02/27/supergirl-alex-gay-chyler-leigh/
Am experimenting tonight with the ImageHostProvider "ImGur" as, currently, all links everywhere involving TurboImageHost seem to be failing. I remember something happening to TIH last year before April right around this time that prevented uploading entirely.
I also remember nearly exactly the problem I'm experiencing tonight happening for a bit in October or thereabouts.
Perhaps it is that finals time is approaching on college campuses around the nation. Timing seems to be something school-related in pattern at least.
TIH was, and hopefully will still be in the future, remarkable for allowing images to be uploaded, up to ten per KMC post all at once, in fact, that are viewable to everyone who visits.
Suppose I'll find out if Imgur can replicate anything close to that in a few moments:
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What happened to the experiments???
In comparison to TIH, Imgur was, and remains for the present for me, a time-costly, hard-to-use disappointment.
I'm amazed at the degree to which Marvel and DC continue to produce work with the themes covered earlier in this thread as of late, too. I might highlight some of them today, time-permitting, but it really does seem more frequent and overt than any period I can recall before now.
Maybe it's just the frequency in mainstream titles have increased.
Smaller titles might have always portrayed this even overtly and didn't register simply because they weren't read?
Avengers #7 from this year changed the venue of the serpent in the garden in a way I found interesting, though, I must admit ...
If you want to see someone describing a much clearer case of insanity, you might click on the following and take a listen:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V-IdF-0Z1uQ
Main purpose of titling this thread as I did, as I've explained many times now, was to make it Google-search-able. Succeeded remarkably in that respect.
Seems to have inspired others, too.
Somewhat unexpected, that.
Note that I'm not endorsing the following right now, but I DO find it interesting that someone produced this, and the video maker himself references others who had done so before him::
Originally posted by bluewaterriderFor the part about Supergirl of my first post ... none of that was alternate reality OR elseworlds. All of it was mainstream when written:
"gentle girl raised by foster parents ... getting cats out of trees"
Silver Age Supergirl"in one incarnation, a child-killer"
Jeph Loeb's Supergirl, as depicted by Joe Kelly ... roughly Supergirl #16-18 arc"in another, a demon-worshipping murderess",
Peter David's Supergirl, late 1990s/early2000s
Originally posted by -Pr-I think the summation of David's run is a bit OTT, tbh.
I'm currently enjoying greater capacity to research and present material than I did when I started this thread. Would not really have been worth the effort to do more than allude to or specifically direct to an issue of Peter David's run when you originally typed the above. Now I can give a better response:
