Death Sentry vs. Gor

Originally posted by jaxthejester
Creating them is, but it still takes time to make them as I understand it.

Doom can create Doom-bots as a part of how his IQ and Tech work. But we don't always allow him an army of Doom-bots in each battle.

Gorr went through various levels of back up in that run. He also relied on the power of a planet of enslaved deities to hold off the Thor(s).
He drained them dead as I recall. That seems more of a boost than a norm to me.

Not really. He can create them or summon them back instantly. It's not at all similar to Doom and his Doombots.

Whatever the boost he received, its part of his power now as the weapon feeds on the power of Gods so it's an irrelevant distinction.

If you can summon resources that are actually yours you should be able to use it. Kang can summon futuristic weapons and robots from the time-stream, I don't see how that differs with Gorr bringing godlings into the fight.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Not really. He can create them or summon them back instantly. It's not at all similar to Doom and his Doombots.

Whatever the boost he received, its part of his power now as the weapon feeds on the power of Gods so it's an irrelevant distinction.

This seems off to me, Rage. I never read anything specifically stating that he could just up and summon them back instantly after they were destroyed. Do you have a scan stating this?

It sounds very contrary to the story I recall reading...

If he could just summon them back instantly; why didn't he summon a legion of them to help him against the Three Thors when they were thrashing him towards the end? They should have been dogged by the hordes non-stop for the entire battle if Gorr always had them available and "on tap" (so to speak).

And the last part I do not agree with... he drained that planet full of Gods as a 1-shot emergency boost to battle the Thors. He killed them in the process, as I recall. That is not a Feat that he can simply re-produce at will. Unless you are saying the Gorr should always be thought of as walking around at "I just ate a world full of Gods" as his norm now?

I suppose his power set could technically qualify this deduction. But I don't really see him that way, TBH. He only held that power boost for a single moment out of his entire run. Weighed against his vast lifespan and total of his showings; this one moment doesn't seem adequate to justify a permanent alteration of his typical walking power level. Granted, I am assuming writer intent here (but in this case, I think it's warranted to examine it)... The plot line lead me to believe that the writer intended Gorr to pull that power to "boost himself in the moment" as a plot device designed to catch him up with the Thors only, rather than to permanently alter him forever to that status as the new walking norm for his power level.

And technically, his most recent showing (if we are going purely by comic timeline) is depowered and broken right before the end of his run.
But I wouldn't call this his norm either. I think the total of his showings should be weighed personally.

My two cents anyway.

Originally posted by Bentley
If you can summon resources that are actually yours you should be able to use it. Kang can summon futuristic weapons and robots from the time-stream, I don't see how that differs with Gorr bringing godlings into the fight.

Nothing is wrong with it. I just don't find it the norm. Does Kang start every battle with a horde of robots?

That's the kicker for me.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Again Gorr's access to his black berserkers is not the same as Doom's access to his Doombots. It's part of his base powerset. He creates them instantly and at will. He can create a small army in less time than it takes someone to tie their shoelaces.

That scan is actually in-line with how I view Gorr. An entourage of beasts. That was far from his whole army. 😄

Originally posted by ODG
Does anybody else think that Gorr used the godblood in that scene to create the black wyrm that held Thor and King Thor at bay for awhile until it was completely destroyed rather than amp his personal being?

That's... actually a good question. I had not considered it. 😕

Originally posted by jaxthejester
Nothing is wrong with it. I just don't find it the norm. Does Kang start every battle with a horde of robots?

That's the kicker for me.

In any battle Kang won't allow to get them inmediately but will always be able to summon them. The fact that Gorr summons his godlings faster is not a deal breaker.

Originally posted by jaxthejester
That scan is actually in-line with how I view Gorr. An entourage of beasts. That was far from his whole army. 😄

Why are we even stuck on this point?

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Seriously you don't think he can create a much larger number of black berserkers? He had full control of countless berserkers in his planet. The whole damned planet was made from the Annihiblade fer cryin out loud.

Why are we even stuck on this point?

For the second question, mainly because nice folks like yourself continue to reply. 😉

For the first- if he could summon any number at will, then why didn't he utterly SWARM the Thors rather than just sending out a few beasts?

The implication of saying that Gorr has limitless beasts on tap is that he would thus send said armies against Death Sentry in this match up. But as shown, on panel, such was not the behavior pattern that we saw from Gorr during his match with the Thors (who, according to the general consensus on this thread, were an even greater threat to his well being than Death Sentry is)... so why didn't Thor swarm them?

There are only three solid reasons that I can think of:

1. He couldn't. Because he does not have limitless hordes on tap. Thus reinforcing my contention/question on the subject.
2. He wouldn't. Because of CIS, in which case it is also unlikely that DS would be facing all of his armies.
3. He wasn't allowed to. Because of PIS, in which case we have no real way to gauge what his true power-set capabilities and/or mental behavior limitations truly are (in regards to army summoning/creation) when he's threated by a potentially greater force than himself.

...so yes, I do find it a valid question to ask.

But no, you do not need to continue to personally reply if you find the subject to be a taxing conversation.

🙂

Originally posted by Bentley
In any battle Kang won't allow to get them inmediately but will always be able to summon them. The fact that Gorr summons his godlings faster is not a deal breaker.

I haven't read many battle threads where Kang wins by summoning a limitless horde of goons to swarm his foe FTW.

That's the primary difference for me. If I'm wrong, and such threads exist (and have solid backing/consensus), then please post links to them and I'll be happy to concede the point.

But as it stands, I do believe it is a fair analogy.

Originally posted by jaxthejester
I haven't read many battle threads where Kang wins by summoning a limitless horde of goons to swarm his foe FTW.

That's the primary difference for me. If I'm wrong, and such threads exist (and have solid backing/consensus), then please post links to them and I'll be happy to concede the point.

But as it stands, I do believe it is a fair analogy.

As ODG just said, Immortus is much more of a "let's just spam armies ftw" than Kang is. Since they use rather similar tech it'd be possible -though not in character, apparently- for Kang to send hordes of robots.

There are other examples of characters that can summon armies under their own powerset such as Jackie Estacado.

I do understand your concern, as there are some limitations to summons explicitly stated in the forum rules.

Originally posted by jaxthejester
For the second question, mainly because nice folks like yourself continue to reply. 😉

For the first- if he could summon any number at will, then why didn't he utterly SWARM the Thors rather than just sending out a few beasts?

The implication of saying that Gorr has limitless beasts on tap is that he would thus send said armies against Death Sentry in this match up. But as shown, on panel, such was not the behavior pattern that we saw from Gorr during his match with the Thors (who, according to the general consensus on this thread, were an even greater threat to his well being than Death Sentry is)... so why didn't Thor swarm them?

There are only three solid reasons that I can think of:

1. He couldn't. Because he does not have limitless hordes on tap. Thus reinforcing my contention/question on the subject.
2. He wouldn't. Because of CIS, in which case it is also unlikely that DS would be facing all of his armies.
3. He wasn't allowed to. Because of PIS, in which case we have no real way to gauge what his true power-set capabilities and/or mental behavior limitations truly are (in regards to army summoning/creation) when he's threated by a potentially greater force than himself.

...so yes, I do find it a valid question to ask.

But no, you do not need to continue to personally reply if you find the subject to be a taxing conversation.

🙂

Still, celehyga17 posted an example of Gorr summoning black beatiess.If I'm not mistaken, Gorr had already spent his powers creating the God Bomb.So he might not have been at peak when he summoned those black beasties on the Thors.I think King Thor once mentioned Gorr's army even overwhelmed Asgard(Future).But you know who I find closer to Gorr in summoning armies?The Guy I had in mind is actually inferior.Yet he can also summon armies of demons because its part of his power set.

😎 I think this is much closer to what Gorr did since Blackheart's power set includes summoning demons.So Gorr is allowed to summon his army in this fight since its part of his power set.Death Sentry dies in the end.

Gorr was using his army to watch over the countless Gods he enslaved. And with a command he had them kill enough Gods to create a serpent that ensnared King Thor and Thor. After the serpent fell, Gorr seemingly reabsorbed it judging from his ability to beat all the Thors at once after almost getting one shotted by King Thor.
Also, he didn't need to absorb the Black berserkers either. He won. And absorbing them wouldn't have helped him with Thor absorbing the God Bomb either. That's a non point.

He was also creating random constructs all throughout the end too. Stairs. Cages mixed with Gods, etc. Everything in there was his power. Everything came from him. It'd be like saying that a GL can't make constructs in a forum setting.

Here he can summon a massive army from across many galaxies:
http://i59.tinypic.com/2q3vkfo.jpg

http://i58.tinypic.com/30rs950.jpg
http://i57.tinypic.com/34pduo6.jpg

His power must have grown considerably since he's now able to make constructs (this is the same construct that used to be a chain, that Thor BROKE, and then it transformed into a BB):
http://i60.tinypic.com/5lrlw4.jpg

All this is attributed to him. Someone has already posted him effortlessly throwing Black Berserkers at the Thor's, so we know he can effortlessly create and absorb them.

He doesn't need to create them, but it's entirely within character, and entirely his own power. Arguing that is like arguing there wasn't thousands of BB all throughout that arc.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Gorr was using his army to watch over the countless Gods he enslaved. And with a command he had them kill enough Gods to create a serpent that ensnared King Thor and Thor. After the serpent fell, Gorr seemingly reabsorbed it judging from his ability to beat all the Thors at once after almost getting one shotted by King Thor.
Also, he didn't need to absorb the Black berserkers either. He won. And absorbing them wouldn't have helped him with Thor absorbing the God Bomb either. That's a non point.

He was also creating random constructs all throughout the end too. Stairs. Cages mixed with Gods, etc. Everything in there was his power. Everything came from him. It'd be like saying that a GL can't make constructs in a forum setting.

Here he can summon a massive army from across many galaxies:
http://i59.tinypic.com/2q3vkfo.jpg

http://i58.tinypic.com/30rs950.jpg
http://i57.tinypic.com/34pduo6.jpg

His power must have grown considerably since he's now able to make constructs (this is the same construct that used to be a chain, that Thor BROKE, and then it transformed into a BB):
http://i60.tinypic.com/5lrlw4.jpg

All this is attributed to him. Someone has already posted him effortlessly throwing Black Berserkers at the Thor's, so we know he can effortlessly create and absorb them.

He doesn't need to create them, but it's entirely within character, and entirely his own power. Arguing that is like arguing there wasn't thousands of BB all throughout that arc.

He was commenting as if he knew the story well.

I now wonder if he even read the arc...

The comparison to summoning Doombots was lulzworthy!

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
And that's that..

He was commenting as if he knew the story well.

I now wonder if he even read the arc...

The comparison to summoning Doombots was lulzworthy!

Actually, I began by asking a question.
Then I made some CIS/PIS observations regarding the nature of Gorr's summoning (which other posters have agreed were valid and fair questions to raise).

Then you got a bit riled up. Still not sure why. Thor's not fighting in this one...

Then Branlor made better points than you did; and I mostly agree with him.

Though the CIS factor is still a consideration for me.
(Like I said to another poster; if evidence were presented; I would be happy to reconsider).

...So hats off to Branlor. And a free chill pill for you. 😉

And yes, I read the arc.

Wanna quiz me? lol 😛

Originally posted by jaxthejester
Actually, I began by asking a question.
Then I made some CIS/PIS observations regarding the nature of Gorr's summoning (which other posters have agreed were valid and fair questions to raise).

Then you got a bit riled up. Still not sure why. Thor's not fighting in this one...

Then Branlor made better points than you did; and I mostly agree with him.

Though the CIS factor is still a consideration for me.
(Like I said to another poster; if evidence were presented; I would be happy to reconsider).

...So hats off to Branlor. And a free chill pill for you. 😉

Originally posted by jaxthejester
And yes, I read the arc.

Wanna quiz me? lol 😛

Yes. Kudos to him for posting the proper scans which you should have known about since you are apparently well versed with the arc. A scan if I may add along with those I posted, further reinforces what you couldn't properly wrap your brain around.

Oh really now? So the same basic point he stated which I've wasted my time repeating, you now suddenly agree with(?mostly?). Good for you..
😄
Seeing as how you now changed your tune after seeing his wonderful scans (or maybe no longer deny plain'ol facts), I'm still left a bit confused as to why you were adverse to the point from the beginning.
Which now leads me to a few thoughts.

You lied about reading the story and only added to the discussions with guesstimates. Can't be that. You're not a liar.

You read the story, but decided to disagree with facts until there were enough smoking gun evidence that you can no longer deny.

Or... You read the story, but you suffer from reading incomprehension. That I can't fault you with since many a poster who frequent these boards suffer from the same malady.

I think it's my honest face that gets through to people. Whereas with Celey's face, it's more of a "Is he going to put his finger in my butt after he murders me?" type of deal.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
I think it's my honest face that gets through to people. Whereas with Celey's face, it's more of a "Is he going to put his finger in my butt after he murders me?" type of deal.

Now he likes you more than me.

🙁