Originally posted by Cogito
There's no real reason to believe H/P Superman was being affected by Kryptonite
When a character, like Superman, is involved in multiple books every month, it is not uncommon for some of the events within said books to take place retroactively from one another(ie. in different periods of time.) That is clearly the case here. You see, writers don't purposefully exclude key bits of context from their works in hopes that the general audience will have read completely unrelated comics, and can connect these extremely vague dots for themselves--that is entirely too subjective. If a writer wants a fact to be known, they typically establish it very blatantly in the story itself. No guessing-games are required.
That said, the H/P arc was an entirely self-contained story. If a powerup aside from the Motherbox-amp wasn't mentioned in the arc itself(and none were), then we cannot assume any such amp was intended to exist.
Originally posted by Galan007
When a character, like Superman, is involved in multiple books every month, it is not uncommon for some of the events within said books to take place retroactively from one another(ie. in different periods of time.) That is clearly the case here. You see, writers don't purposefully exclude key bits of context from their works in hopes that the general audience will have read completely unrelated comics, and can connect these extremely vague dots for themselves--that is entirely too subjective. If a writer wants a fact to be known, they typically establish it very blatantly in the story itself. No guessing-games are required.That said, the H/P arc was an entirely self-contained story. If a powerup aside from the Motherbox-amp wasn't mentioned in the arc itself(and none were), then we cannot assume any such amp was intended to exist.
"I'm better than before too. Stronger."
@ abi
You're reaching. Lets look at the facts...
The scan you posted is from H/P #2, released in May 1994. Superman lost the powerup you referenced in Adventures of Superman #512, released toward the end of May 1994(ie. the same month.)
But before he lost the amp, Superman had transformed into a hulking brute who was unable to control his powers, during MoS #33, released at the beginning of May 1994:
http://i.imgur.com/GBZqkGT.jpg
And that buffoonishly massive look continued up until Supes lost that extra power in AoS #512(which, again, was released near the end of May 1994):
http://imgur.com/ete5qb4
So basically, he was a freakishly large oaf who was unable to control his powers in the slightest, for the entire month of May 1994. This is important because he was never awkwardly large OR unable to control his powers during H/P #2(the comic your scan is from), which, again, came out the same month/year. mmm
Heck, even before he gained that extra mass(which wasn't very long), Supes never could control his powers in any sort of fine-tuned fashion:
http://imgur.com/CWygAPD
http://imgur.com/pk023XU
http://imgur.com/FNaVxgW
http://imgur.com/w4akHBF
http://imgur.com/Dw7cnzB
http://imgur.com/SFQcPF1
http://imgur.com/x247L4f
http://imgur.com/AFIJ4s1
http://imgur.com/v6AfHFg
http://imgur.com/lce6QSj
So even IF we ignore the fact that these were clearly two self-contained/individualized stories that were meant to run retroactively from one another, there are still two glaring differences which tell us Superman did not possess that powerup during the H/P arc:
1.) He wasn't a gigantic hulking freak at any point in time.
2.) He had perfect control over his abilities throughout the entire event.
Originally posted by Galan007
@ abiYou're reaching. Lets look at the facts...
The scan you posted is from H/P #2, released in May 1994. Superman lost the powerup you referenced in Adventures of Superman #512, released toward the end of May 1994(ie. the same month.)
But before he lost the amp, Superman had transformed into a hulking brute who was unable to control his powers, during MoS #33, released at the beginning of May 1994:
http://i.imgur.com/GBZqkGT.jpgAnd that buffoonishly massive look continued up until Supes lost that extra power in AoS #512(which, again, was released near the end of May 1994):
http://imgur.com/ete5qb4
So basically, he was a freakishly large oaf who was unable to control his powers in the slightest, for the entire month of May 1994. This is important because he was never awkwardly large OR unable to control his powers during H/P #2(the comic your scan is from), which, again, came out the same month/year. mmmHeck, even before he gained that extra mass(which wasn't very long), Supes never could control his powers in any sort of fine-tuned fashion:
http://imgur.com/CWygAPD
http://imgur.com/pk023XU
http://imgur.com/FNaVxgW
http://imgur.com/w4akHBF
http://imgur.com/Dw7cnzBhttp://imgur.com/SFQcPF1
http://imgur.com/x247L4f
http://imgur.com/AFIJ4s1
http://imgur.com/v6AfHFg
http://imgur.com/lce6QSjSo even IF we ignore the fact that these were clearly two self-contained/individualized stories that were meant to run retroactively from one another, there are still two glaring differences which tell us Superman did not possess that powerup during the H/P arc:
1.) He wasn't a gigantic hulking freak at any point in time.
2.) He had perfect control over his abilities throughout the entire event.
The stuff with being like Hulk and shit happened after that. Can't get any clear than that.
Originally posted by Galan007
Ah, so they retconned the shit out of it 3 years later in that issue, then. Good to know. It actually bumps up H/P DD much higher on the totem pole.Next time you should lead with that scan instead of the non-evidence you posted earlier. It would have saved me a lot of time. 😉
http://i.imgur.com/xoSq0F3.jpg
Where do you think superman became STRONGER?
It was such a big amp that Superman was oneshotting bizarro thrice in a single comic where he stated that Bizarro was as strong as him before.
Here he says Bizarro can match him blow for blow.
And then he goes and oneshots him three times in a row.
http://imgur.com/KATS3eW
http://imgur.com/f54UAn0
http://imgur.com/QUvt6u0
http://imgur.com/Ld3JGAy
Seriously enough, he was just tapping him and tossing him around like a ping-pong.
http://imgur.com/Kguzo17
http://imgur.com/cLakK7u
That alone is above herald level strength.
Doomsday was FAR, FAR above herald tier in strength and durability.
You should've believed me earlier. Superman said he was stronger and that should've been the end of discussion.
uhuh
Originally posted by abhilegendI thoroughly explained exactly how little that scan means on its own, using time-correlative evidence(see above.)
Nothing was retconned, they just referenced it directly. The amp was referenced in H/P as shown here.http://i.imgur.com/xoSq0F3.jpg
Where do you think superman became STRONGER?
The other scan you posted(released yearS later) is what actually confirms the amp. If I need to explain things again, I can. 🙂
Evidently Superman was so strong at the time that a light tap from him was equivalent to what his most powerful punch was before the amp. So his most powerful amped punch would have been MANY orders of magnitude beyond what it was at his standard levels. ALL of his powers would have been magnified by that degree, in fact.
...Yet even with his powers that much greater, he was still laughably inferior to H/P DD. Hell, even after a MB amp(which further boosted his powers) he was still barely able to give DD pause.
I'd say 3-4x more powerful than standard Supes is a very conservative estimate.
Originally posted by Galan007
Evidently Superman was so strong at the time that a light tap from him was equivalent to what his most powerful punch was before the amp. So his most powerful amped punch would have been MANY orders of magnitude beyond what it was at his standard levels. ALL of his powers would have been magnified by that degree, in fact....Yet even with his powers that much greater, he was still laughably inferior to H/P DD. Hell, even after a MB amp(which further boosted his powers) he was still barely able to give DD pause.
I'd say 3-4x more powerful than standard Supes is a very conservative estimate.
Puts his unrestrained strength in OWAW in a very good light too.
