Originally posted by Nephthys
People have a right to their beliefs, as long as they don't infringe on the rights and well-being of others. Freedom means being free to be a douche too.
True, but my right to swing my fist ends right before your face. For the same reason, my right to use discriminatory rhetoric ends in front of everyone else's figurative face. It's socially unacceptable to hate gay people/Jews/women/people from Ireland in a school, work place, or even sitting in a cafe; the idea that this belief is reinforced by the rules of shepherds thousands of years ago who seemingly got it from a deity is not suddenly a reason to provide exceptions.
I'm not talking 'thought-police'; that's entirely off mark. No, I'm saying religious bodies who advocate that homosexuals are sinful/not good people should be checked depending on the level they spread these beliefs, because these beliefs are harmful and intolerant.
The idea that it's okay for religion to do this is again, special pleading.
Yeah, **** Freedom of Speech. :V
I'm sure you don't need me to point this out, but there is a world of difference between violence and saying hateful things to people. Hint: Your use of the word 'figurative' is telling. In fact, that you belittle religion in your own statements seems to paint you as something of a hypocrite in this regard. I guess its ok to be a bigot towards other bigots. And just because something is socially unacceptable doesn't make illegal. Sure, if they say those things in the workplace or start making hate-speeches, they should be told to leave or stop. But for different reasons than that they're hateful beliefs. We shouldn't impeach upon their rights to those beliefs.
That is thought-police stuff though. You are saying that we should limit the ability of a church to preach their beliefs to others because you/we disagree with them. You said that you find them being able to practice these beliefs troubling. You are saying that there are things that it is unacceptable for people to believe and that they should not legally be allowed to argue that they are true. You are being just as intolerant to others as they are and believing that your intolerance should be made law.
So why do you deserve special pleading?
Because I'm special. I think I'm being entirely too extreme in representing my views. I guess I should present a simple explanation for what I feel is wrong in a certain situation.
A: Hey, I don't like gay people/black people/Jewish people/Gypsties/etc.
B: Why would you say that? This is school/work/social area here.
A: Because my religion reaffirms this dislike.
A: Oh okay. Continue then. I don't want to tread on your ability to express yourself at my expense.
^ That's a social problem.
Originally posted by Stealth MooseBecause I'm special. I think I'm being entirely too extreme in representing my views. I guess I should present a simple explanation for what I feel is wrong in a certain situation.A: Hey, I don't like gay people/black people/Jewish people/Gypsties/etc.
B: Why would you say that? This is school/work/social area here.
A: Because my religion reaffirms this dislike.
A: Oh okay. Continue then. I don't want to tread on your ability to express yourself at my expense.^ That's a social problem.
Originally posted by Stealth MooseBecause I'm special. I think I'm being entirely too extreme in representing my views. I guess I should present a simple explanation for what I feel is wrong in a certain situation.A: Hey, I don't like gay people/black people/Jewish people/Gypsties/etc.
B: Why would you say that? This is school/work/social area here.
A: Because my religion reaffirms this dislike.
A: Oh okay. Continue then. I don't want to tread on your ability to express yourself at my expense.^ That's a social problem.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" - Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Originally posted by Bardock42
Also good attributing of quote...
Better attributing than most people realize:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Evelyn Beatrice Hall (1868 – 1956), who wrote under the pseudonym S.G. Tallentyre, was an English writer
best known for her biography of Voltaire entitled The Friends of Voltaire, which she completed in 1906.
In her biography on Voltaire, Hall wrote the phrase:
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
(which is often misattributed to Voltaire himself)
as an illustration of Voltaire's beliefs.
Hall's quotation is often cited to describe the principle of freedom of speech.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evelyn_Beatrice_Hall
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Better attributing than most people realize:------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(1868 – 1956), who wrote under the pseudonym S.G. Tallentyre, was an English writer
[b]Evelyn Beatrice Hall
best known for her biography of Voltaire entitled The Friends of Voltaire, which she completed in 1906.In her biography on Voltaire, Hall wrote the phrase:
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
(which is often misattributed to Voltaire himself)
as an illustration of Voltaire's beliefs.
Hall's quotation is often cited to describe the principle of freedom of speech.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[/B]
Do you believe in any of that?
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Better attributing than most people realize:------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(1868 – 1956), who wrote under the pseudonym S.G. Tallentyre, was an English writer
[b]Evelyn Beatrice Hall
best known for her biography of Voltaire entitled The Friends of Voltaire, which she completed in 1906.In her biography on Voltaire, Hall wrote the phrase:
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
(which is often misattributed to Voltaire himself)
as an illustration of Voltaire's beliefs.
Hall's quotation is often cited to describe the principle of freedom of speech.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evelyn_Beatrice_Hall [/B]
Well, yes, that's what I'm referring to. It's good all spelt out like that, too though. Subtlety is overrated.